First Extreme Recon Edition Package Jeep JL Rubicon I’ve seen! - Added suspension + more pics

[Headbarcode]

I can't remember what page it was on, but I'm curious if the poster with 37's and 5.13's that wasn't seeing 8th ever reprogrammed for the tire size and gear change. The 8-speed is a learning unit, but just like anything else that can learn and adapt, it still needs to be fed accurate baseline inputs. If it's still set to factory inputs, the transmission is left fighting itself and not performing optimally.

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[Headbarcode]

The un impressive 3.6

Oh, there you are. I couldn't refind your original post. Check my other post right above

 

[Headbarcode]

I think this xr is a great out of the box setup for those that would've done a similar build anyway. Even swapping out the lift and wheel/tires, there are still plenty of other improvements that lay an improved foundation over a regular Rubicon. A bump up advantage in final drive gearing, cast iron knuckles, etc.

 

[gato]

Whenever I see an automobile manufacturer try to do something beyond the "norm" I always try to think of all the "restrictions", both legal and financial, that they must abide by.

I think we all get that.

But it has not stopped Ford from offering 37s and supper impressive shocks from the factory on the Raptor (and apparently soon on the Warthog Bronco). It has not stopped Ford from offering 35" tires on every trim of the 2-door Bronco as an option. It has not stopped Ford from offering 400 ftlbs of torque on every trim of the 2-door Bronco.

Jeep is making it so freaking complicated. 35" tires is the max. And it is only available on 4-doors. And even then only available with on one trim (Rubicon) with a couple of engine choices.

If you want a 2-door Jeep there is nothing on offer with even 300 ftlbs of torque. No tire larger than 33".

I'm glad that Jeep is offering the XR. But come one, it is a half baked reaction to the Sasquatch vs a well thought out offer across the entire Wrangler line up.

What will be their response when the Bronco launches 37s? The XXR only available on Tuesdays is extreme yellow ?


P.S. Actually I know the answer to my own question. Jeep will not offer that from the "factory". They will tack those on as "after sales customizations" to be done at the large facility they are building in Ohio. If they do that well, it may be a way forward.

 

[gato]

I can't remember what page it was on, but I'm curious if the poster with 37's and 5.13's that wasn't seeing 8th ever reprogrammed for the tire size and gear change. The 8-speed is a learning unit, but just like anything else that can learn and adapt, it still needs to be fed accurate baseline inputs. If it's still set to factory inputs, the transmission is left fighting itself and not performing optimally.

You are one of the most knowledgeable and helpful posters here, and I don't mean to pick on you for this comment, But I see this repeated often in here and on you tube, etc.

The ZFAT8 shift logic is determined by RPM, load on the engine (think going up-hill vs down hill), throttle position, and a few other factors like fluid temperature (cold, warm, hot, overheating).

Other than the logic to prevent shifting into park, reverse and auto park, vehicle speed is not factored into it - and even then it actually uses wheel speed from the speed sensors.

You can go on Tazer and change your tire size to some ridiculous amount e.g. 30" to 40" and you will not notice any change in shifting pattern. The only thing that will change is your speedometer calibration. If not convinced, give it a try.

 

[aldo98229]

Whenever I see an automobile manufacturer try to do something beyond the "norm" I always try to think of all the "restrictions", both legal and financial, that they must abide by. Having raced sportscars for many years I always thought how great it would be if the manufacturers went ahead and "finished" the job they started - what about race seats, and a roll cage, and harnesses, etc. But I realized that the manufacturer would be taking on incredible liabilities if they did such things. Perhaps the Xtreme Recon was "restricted by "rules" and "liabilities" as well. For instance, those cheesey looking fender extensions? - yes, there are many states (if not federal regulations) that REQUIRE those tires to be completely covered. And perhaps before Jeep wanted to invest thousands, if not millions, of dollars in fender redesign, they wanted to see exactly what the long term demand for the package would be. And something like the lift height, I myself was hoping for more......... but I realize that, for sure, if it got raised considerably higher that a "regular" Jeep, some knucklehead (no one on this forum, of course!) would roll it over and then proceed to sue Jeep for building a vehicle that was "obviously" too "high" to be "safe"........ as the vehicle was WAY higher than anything else Jeep built. Yes, it would be great to hear from Jeep itself, what "restrictions" they felt they had to abide by in their design. Just my thoughts - bash away !

It isn’t just government regulations automakers have to contend with, there’s customers, too. A Jeep that is too high to get in and out of is a deal breaker for a large group of shoppers. So would be one that cannot be parked inside a structure.

And then there are private insurance companies, and the insurance-sponsored IIHS, with their phobia towards vehicles with a high center of gravity.

Automakers have to design vehicles that not only meet federal and state regulations, but also satisfy dozens of industry associations, safety groups, private publications, AND at the same time will make hundreds of thousands of households want to buy and own them.

The list of “stakeholders” automakers have to please, outside of governments, goes on and on.

It’s easy to get carried away with wanting automakers do this and that. The reality is that the “enthusiast” segment of the auto market, while overrepresented in forums like this one, comprise a very small minority of the buying public.

And now, anyone with a phone and a YouTube account is suddenly a product “expert”.

Often times, when I see people with more money than brains do all sorts of crazy stuff with their factory-spec rigs, makes me wish such vehicles were harder to get.

 

[imperial4ever]

I'm not sold at all on the huge wheels and tires. After researching the Wrangler platform to death, I have concluded that the Rubicon 2 doorJL with the stock 33's with a 4.10 gear ratio is perfect for my purpose.

When you start to go with larger tires serious money is involved to get the drivetrain/steering/chassis to match up. I'm of the opinion that the "Recon Edition" is not much more than a lift and reinforced tailgate. I can see some reliability issues after the warranty runs out.

As soon as you wrote "2 door JL" I hit the like button. #savethe2doorjeep

 

[Headbarcode]

You are one of the most knowledgeable and helpful posters here, and I don't mean to pick on you for this comment, But I see this repeated often in here and on you tube, etc.

The ZFAT8 shift logic is determined by RPM, load on the engine (think going up-hill vs down hill), throttle position, and a few other factors like fluid temperature (cold, warm, hot, overheating).

Other than the logic to prevent shifting into park, reverse and auto park, vehicle speed is not factored into it - and even then it actually uses wheel speed from the speed sensors.

You can go on Tazer and change your tire size to some ridiculous amount e.g. 30" to 40" and you will not notice any change in shifting pattern. The only thing that will change is your speedometer calibration. If not convinced, give it a try.

I've had to change my tire size twice so far. On both occasions, I had to drive some highway and stop and go miles between the tire shop and the tazer instructions on the tablet at home. The shift points were completely thrown off and was mostly holding 6th gear on the highway. As soon as the correct information was inputted, there was a night and day instant improvement in shifting and I was back to 8th at the same highway speed.

Whether it's reading speed from the speedometer or axle shaft revolutions, the distance between the axle shaft centers and the ground is one of the important pieces of information that the transmission needs to compute the formula that dictates the final result. The Jeep has no way of telling that it's axle shafts are sitting higher, so it solely relies on its owner to let it know through a reprogram.

Current throttle demand, engine rpm, and speed determines engine load. That load determines whether or not a down or up shift is necessary.

Many thanks for your kind words! I don't at all look at it as picking on, just healthy conversation. And that's always a great thing!

 

[Jeepnutz]

Oh, there you are. I couldn't refind your original post. Check my other post right above

Tazer mini...

 

[OllieChristopher]

As soon as you wrote "2 door JL" I hit the like button. #savethe2doorjeep

Not to derail this thread John but I truly believe the 2 door Jeep is the only choice when it comes to true capability and maneuverability. I'm of the opinion that some of these "overland Wranglers" have gotten outrageous in size and weight. With just my wife and I a 2 door with the seats removed would hold more than enough for going to the cabin or traveling. And for me doing solo trips in the mountain and desert trails a 2 door is all I need.

And yes admittedly I'm chicken when it comes to sizing tires large enough for serious rock crawling one of these. I have been in rollovers in both my baja bug and rail buggy to know that it can happen at the blink of an eye.

What is really strange and I will never understand is the Wrangler owner who does the large wheel thing just for looks.

 

[Carlton]

Hopefully more pictures start rolling in of other XRs to get a better look.

 

[Cypher]

@AllMoparParts.com Do you have the part number for the Xtreme Recon wheels yet? they look like an updated version of the Mopar performance beadlocks 77072466AB.

 

[gato]

I've had to change my tire size twice so far. On both occasions, I had to drive some highway and stop and go miles between the tire shop and the tazer instructions on the tablet at home. The shift points were completely thrown off and was mostly holding 6th gear on the highway. As soon as the correct information was inputted, there was a night and day instant improvement in shifting and I was back to 8th at the same highway speed.

Whether it's reading speed from the speedometer or axle shaft revolutions, the distance between the axle shaft centers and the ground is one of the important pieces of information that the transmission needs to compute the formula that dictates the final result. The Jeep has no way of telling that it's axle shafts are sitting higher, so it solely relies on its owner to let it know through a reprogram.

Current throttle demand, engine rpm, and speed determines engine load. That load determines whether or not a down or up shift is necessary.

Many thanks for your kind words! I don't at all look at it as picking on, just healthy conversation. And that's always a great thing!

Glad you took it as I do. Just sharing and learning. My datapoint is my KO2s "37s" works exactly the same when I unmarry the Tazer to take to dealer as when I have it on. Absolutely no difference in shift points. But I'll keep an eye on it next time.

 

[Headbarcode]

Glad you took it as I do. Just sharing and learning. My datapoint is my KO2s "37s" works exactly the same when I unmarry the Tazer to take to dealer as when I have it on. Absolutely no difference in shift points. But I'll keep an eye on it next time.

It was a noticeable drop in performance after my 1st swap, from factory 285/70-17 ko2's to a set of 315/70-17 ko2's. It was bad enough to not want to own it anymore after the 2nd swap, from the 315 ko2's to 38x13.5 Milestar Patagonias.

The instructions for the tazer mentions that changes "may" take up to 5 on/off cycles before they take affect. Mine responds immediately. I had to unmarry before bringing my Jeep in to get the steering box tsb done. It rode like crap for the half hour drive to the dealer. I was glad that I threw the tazer in the center console, so I could remarry before leaving the dealer. Was back to fantastic all the way home. It's less noticeable in stop and go driving than it is on the highway.

Something worth reiterating, is that speed is definitely a part of the equation to optimal shift points and overall transmission performance. What I'm not sure about is if it's the speedometer itself or speed sensors that the transmission is reading from. Either way, the speed sensors read axle shaft rotation. There's nothing in place to sense tire diameter and circumference, so the transmission can only go by what size is programmed.

Older vehicles and transmissions weren't as sophisticated. Changes to tire size only affected the speedo, because components such as vacuum diaphragms were reading engine load and telling the transmission when a shift was required.

 

[mwilk012]

It was a noticeable drop in performance after my 1st swap, from factory 285/70-17 ko2's to a set of 315/70-17 ko2's. It was bad enough to not want to own it anymore after the 2nd swap, from the 315 ko2's to 38x13.5 Milestar Patagonias.

The instructions for the tazer mentions that changes "may" take up to 5 on/off cycles before they take affect. Mine responds immediately. I had to unmarry before bringing my Jeep in to get the steering box tsb done. It rode like crap for the half hour drive to the dealer. I was glad that I threw the tazer in the center console, so I could remarry before leaving the dealer. Was back to fantastic all the way home. It's less noticeable in stop and go driving than it is on the highway.

Something worth reiterating, is that speed is definitely a part of the equation to optimal shift points and overall transmission performance. What I'm not sure about is if it's the speedometer itself or speed sensors that the transmission is reading from. Either way, the speed sensors read axle shaft rotation. There's nothing in place to sense tire diameter and circumference, so the transmission can only go by what size is programmed.

Older vehicles and transmissions weren't as sophisticated. Changes to tire size only affected the speedo, because components such as vacuum diaphragms were reading engine load and telling the transmission when a shift was required.

Unless you have the source code, you are just making assumptions about the transmission shift logic. We have no data to suggest that tire size is factored in.

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