ESS and managing expectations

[Gee-pah]

Clearly, we all have many different viewpoints on all the dimensions of ESS, including but certainly not limited to:

• Why government forces manufacturers to implement it in a non-latching (has to be turned off each time the rig cranks with a start button press without buying tech to do it) ways or face stiff penalties if fleet MPG ratings fail to meet certain thresholds
• Concern over how much it really saves as compared to vehicle wear and tear
• The design of the system and, at least on 3.6L JLs that dang ESS/Aux battery.

These have all been well covered here before. And I hope like me, you respect, if not agree with opinions differing from your own.

That said, my focus here is on my own personal curiosity with so many owners just hating the idea of pressing the ESS off button so much, that they'd spend on tech to do it for them. By no means am I criticizing those who make such purchases as we all have adversity to doing different things. I just find it curious how I don't hear, "dang, I wish that radio on button was latching. Why do I have to press it to turn on the radio I almost always want on?"

I suspect it has to do with the idea that we're willing to press buttons to enable the things we enjoy, or that were use to as a society to enable, even if we don't like them (e.g. having to tie our shoes if we choose lace based footwear) rather than buttons to disable the things we dislike. But to my way of thinking, I think in short order, habit could form where we press the starter button with our thumb, and the ESS button a second later after successfully cranking with, say, our pointer finger.

I also suspect that one would be hard pressed to find a community of people more interested in freedom than Wrangler owners. The vehicle's history in securing it during military conflict, and its ability to make trails of its own where few other vehicles can appeals to people so annoyed by government forcing an ESS feature they don't like in their vehicle, which they bought and paid for the gasoline to drive, that buying tech to forget its there is worth it to them.

What say you? Why does such tech to disable it sell as well as it does. Do you think a device to "tie your shoes," say, for example, would sell as well?

I will leave this OP with one opinion. I hope it doesn't start a firestorm because you don't have to agree with it. Here goes:

Technically, you are not paying the true price of gasoline. Assuming you buy into global warming, that gasoline's effect on our climate requires money to remedy. If included in the price of gasoline, which many argue would be fair, your fuel might be triple in cost, and an ESS you can turn off through multiple means is far less costly to remedy.

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[Gee-pah]

Hey @TEXGOAT. I think you're saying that you have serious misgivings about Global warming and its true costs and effect. Okay.

But please do appreciate that the heat you experience in August in Texas, there before anyone was making a fuss about the environment, doesn't take away from the myriad of examples of climate change we are seeing, and the slow but steady effects of planetary warming.

Perhaps you feel these changes are attributable to other natural things that could just as easily reverse themselves in time frames beyond either of our lifetimes.

Another thing: and this is not up for debate because its Newton's 3rd law. Not that you otherwise disagree, but trees don't collect carbon dioxide so much as they save it, like you and I save $ in a bank. Eventually that carbon dioxide, like our money, will leave when the tree dies, be it in fire or in its natural decomposition. By no means I'm I against planting trees; I'm just saying that in the geological view of time that measures across 1000s and years, trees absorb and release carbon dioxide in a snap of a finger.

 

[nostatic]

My theory - humans crave control, or at least the illusion of control. ESS happens automatically, ie not under out control. Hence people don’t like it (yes, there are other reasons/factors).

Same reason conspiracy theories spread. People want to believe that things are under the control of someone rather than random chance.

 

[Gee-pah]

My theory - humans crave control, or at least the illusion of control. ESS happens automatically, ie not under out control. Hence people don’t like it (yes, there are other reasons/factors).

Same reason conspiracy theories spread. People want to believe that things are under the control of someone rather than random chance.

So the things we don't control, but happen anyway in a direction of our liking don't violate that sense of control I guess.

Well played thoughts @nostatic !

You don't hear too many people complaining that they just inherited a million dollars they never were expecting.

As for consipracy theories I completely agree with your explanation for their appearance, but also believe other motivations exist, like, and I say this apolitically, to sway public opinion.

 

[nostatic]

So the things we don't control, but happen anyway in a direction of our liking don't violate that sense of control I guess.

Sure - confirmation bias

 

[aldo98229]

ESS bothered me to no end when I test drove JL. But as it turns out, now that I’ve had my JL for 10 months, ESS doesn’t bother any more.

What has changed? I don’t really know. The V6 is so smooth and refined, that I can barely tell when ESS kicks in. Sometimes I have to look at the tach needle to tell if the engine is idling or not.

Also, for the most part we have variations of a mild weather here. Temps rarely exceed 80 degrees in summer or fall below 45 in winter. So I don’t have to deal without being with AC in the middle of a scorching hot day.

Of all the hypothesis you outline, I believe that the one that carries most water is that one about having to press a button not to receive a positive reward, but to avoid a negative outcome. For some, having to press that button is a constant reminder of an annoying feature they detest.

The one feature I really want to kill, though, is that irritating weather alerts crap...

 

[SouthCo]

I don't even think twice about ESS. It's one of a few buttons I hit every time I drive my Jeep. I hit the start button, the climate control button, the radio button (well not always) and the ESS button. I don't see the big deal and I'm just thankful there is a button to turn it off as opposed to having ESS be always on...

 

[aldo98229]

On my Fiat Spider, there’s a “Sport” button I can hit every time I get in the car. It rewards me instantly with noticeably improved throttle response, turbo kicking in a little sooner, and a bunch of other electronically controlled stuff. Because it is so fun, I look forward to hitting that button, every time.

 

[TimmH]

Why do I have to press it to turn on the radio I almost always want on?"

My radio always comes back on right where I left it last, so do my climate control options. The only option that doesn't retain it's last setting is the ESS.

 

[emptyminded42]

I am like the only person around here that doesn't care about ESS. The only times I disable it are when I'm driving my kid around to get her to sleep because the restarts tend to wake her up. Otherwise I leave it on and it never gets in the way of my manual transmission driving habits.

I'd much, much rather had ESS than pay for a gas guzzler tax upon purchase. I am getting excellent (IMO) gas mileage but I'm not sure how much the ESS plays into it (not much, probably, since I seldom drive in conditions when it's active).

I suggest you don't point at the gubbermint as requiring ESS. FCA chose ESS as a means of achieving whatever it decided is the optimal level emissions and fuel efficiency figures to maximize profits based on the regulations it is beholden to in the US market and abroad. FCA might have been able to avoid ESS by designing the Pentastar to maximize fuel economy, lightening the JL(U) even more to reduce fuel consumption, opted for hybridization/electrification across all powertrains, or reduced the Wrangler's off-road capabilities by lightening/weakening components, etc. etc. IMHO FCA chose one of or the least disruptive means of achieving better fuel economy/profits. I'm getting nearly 23 mpg lifetime and that's pretty damn good.

 

[aldo98229]

I am like the only person around here that doesn't care about ESS. The only times I disable it are when I'm driving my kid around to get her to sleep because the restarts tend to wake her up. Otherwise I leave it on and it never gets in the way of my manual transmission driving habits.

I'd much, much rather had ESS than pay for a gas guzzler tax upon purchase. I am getting excellent (IMO) gas mileage but I'm not sure how much the ESS plays into it (not much, probably, since I seldom drive in conditions when it's active).

I suggest you don't point at the gubbermint as requiring ESS. FCA chose ESS as a means of achieving whatever it decided is the optimal level emissions and fuel efficiency figures to maximize profits based on the regulations it is beholden to in the US market and abroad. FCA might have been able to avoid ESS by designing the Pentastar to maximize fuel economy, lightening the JL(U) even more to reduce fuel consumption, opted for hybridization/electrification across all powertrains, or reduced the Wrangler's off-road capabilities by lightening/weakening components, etc. etc. IMHO FCA chose one of or the least disruptive means of achieving better fuel economy/profits. I'm getting nearly 23 mpg lifetime and that's pretty damn good.

You raise an excellent point.

The engine and transmission on my 2019 Toyota Tacoma were programmed to deliver the 24 MPG listed on the window sticker. Unfortunately, the driving experience was atrocious: the automatic totally refused to downshift when you needed it to, making the engine feel anemic and underpowered. If you floored the throttle to wake up the stupid transmission, it would downshift so far and abruptly, that you thought the engine was going to blow up. It made for an unenjoyable driving experience; it was downright scary on two-lane roads.

I much rather deal with ESS on my JL and enjoy an excellent motor and transmission combo.

 

[Sean L]

ESS happens automatically, ie not under out control.

Except when you learn how to manipulate when it does and does not autostop. Applying light enough pressure on the brake prevents an autostop and I tend to use that when I know its going to be a super quick stop at a stop sign or the like. Manual drivers have even better control.

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