Engine/Transmission Options

[The Great Grape Ape]

Is it certain we're getting this updated Pentastar in the 2018 JL, or will it be coming in 2019?

It’s certain, even the 2018 order sheet has it as ” Upg 1 “.

The reason I'm asking is because the BSG isn't coming until 2019 for the Pentastar. Why wouldn't they have just introduced it with the 2018 like the Turbo, that would make more sense, since it is the launch of the redesign? What's causing the delay in the BSG for the Pentastar?

Because the 2T isn’t here at launch, isn’t in volume, so BSG likely isn’t ready in volume either, so why delay the launch, just put in the plain updated Pentastar that’s already running fine on other platforms and go. Also why risk it on your main engine right away when you can always add it later when you’re under less pressure.

Just like they could’ve delayed the 5spd auto ‘til 2013 to wait for NAG1 production or you can launch it alongside the Pentastar using a euro-sourced W5A580, and then add the NAG1when you’re ready.

Also, just putting the plain PUG in first means you can also test it in the platform first without the influence of the BSG.

Can we expect any problems/issues in the Turbo's BSG to be solved by the time it's installed in the Pentastar?

Possibly, but we’d have to know what they were first. Something minor like wiring sure that could be identified and fixed before adding to Pentastar, something major like the BSG itself, Converter or Battery design, likely not in 6 months, meaning either delaying deployment or fixing after the first batch.

Finally, why on earth is the Wrangler the guinea pig for this new tech? Would it not have made more sense to try it out first in the Cherokee/Grand Cherokee first? Has FCA announced a BSG for any other model yet? (And I'm talking about the whole FCA portfolio, not just Jeep.)

I don’t know of another FCA BSG product, mostly just Hybrids, but this is also a brand new engine platform, so it being integral to the Hurricane gives it options for tuning and such that free it from concerns like excessive Lag, etc. so they can focus on efficiency without major drawbacks.
The power level is kinda overkill for the Cherokee which doesn’t even get the full pentastar, and there might not be enough room in a Cherokee, dunno. Also seeing as how it’ll be a lower number of deployed units for the Wrangler initially, best to start small than put it on your main, reliable, successful engine right away, use the new test engine that has no recent history to besmirch, and something that can easily be halted and then re-started. Halting the Pentastar right now would cripple the Wrangler, once alternatives are out there, then that changes.

Why the Wrangler?
Because it needs every bit of help it can get as seen by the latest released city numbers which made little improvement with ESS, 8spd, PUG, etc. So a 4cylinder with BSG may change that city number.

They’ve been talking about electrifying the Wrangler since the start of the JK, but it makes sense to go this route first before full hybrid, to test the viability of mild electrification in tough conditions vs full hybrid. A BSG is easier and cheaper to repair, and less critical vs either in-line or full hyrbid.

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[The Great Grape Ape]

Also, is the Diesel getting a BSG? Does the Diesel have ESS? (If not, why not, to both questions?)

The new EdoDiesel has ESS (also the first EcoDiesel to get ESS, as this will be the Gen3), but it appears no BSG; however, they may use some compression tricks to help with ESS. There are more challenges to ESS on a diesel, so it will be interesting to see their implementation/solutions.

 

[The Great Grape Ape]

Do you think there's any chance at all an average Joe like me could have FCA build a JL with a manual transmission even though it isn't an option for certain engines? I know there'd be warranty headaches and such things but it is a factory after all, most things are probably Lego.

Not likely at all.

It’s still unknown the torque handling of the Manual transmission, but everyone’s talk about tunning means, NO Manual for any tunable engine.

You’d have to go the same route as current JK owners wanting HEMIs or diesels, and pay the price for it, and there’s still the option to add forced air Pentastar like on the JK.

 

[The Great Grape Ape]

I imagine you'll see the new turbo put in all kinds of vehicles around the same time.

That’s been the plan since at least 2014;

https://www.fcagroup.com/investorday/PresentationList/Global_Powertrain.pdf

 

[thenewrick]

Yea it doesn't make sense to have naturally aspirated engines any more. Turbos are just better technology.

I have a sad feeling they won't put the fun engines with a manual :X

 

[The Great Grape Ape]

Yea it doesn't make sense to have naturally aspirated engines any more. Turbos are just better technology.

Nah, the HEMI would be better fit for the Wrangler than any of those non-exotic turbos. And supercharger is a better fit for Wrangler than turbo too.

With all the EcoBusts out there, I’ll still take reliable displacement, even though I’m paying an altitude penalty for it. It’s the reason Ford recommends the V8 for commercial use. You can keep you tiny turbos for town and street driving, but I’d rather have reliability on off-road than 0-60. A turbo diesel would be close, though the cold precludes it for me.

The future of compression ignition gasoline engine is interesting, but will take too long and electric drive &storage improvements will make it all moot.

The tinyturbo4 is the right solution for the EPA, but the EcoDiesel and Hemi would both be the right solution for the Wrangler outside of town.

I have a sad feeling they won't put the fun engines with a manual :X

That should read: ‘They aren’t putting the fun engine (HEMI) in the Wrangler’.

 

[BillyHW]

I wish we could get a Hemi in the Wrangler. Or even a 4.0 6-cylinder.

Eff CAFE. Eff the EPA.

 

[thenewrick]

I think it's good to have options. The Wrangler seems to be great about offering options for customers except in the engine/transmission combinations.

Maybe they will make a Trailhawk version at some point with a turbo Pentastar. I don't think they will ever put V8's in Wranglers though.

 

[BillyHW]

I think it's good to have options. The Wrangler seems to be great about offering options for customers except in the engine/transmission combinations.

Maybe they will make a Trailhawk version at some point with a turbo Pentastar. I don't think they will ever put V8's in Wranglers though.

Every Wrangler is a trailhawk.

 

[thenewrick]

Power is addicting what can I say?

 

[The Great Grape Ape]

Unfortunately you’re likely correct on the lack of will at FCA to put the proper engine in it, but this isn’t new unfortunately.

It’s just extremely annoying that Jeep’s Halo vehicle had 1 and then another 1 engine options for 11 years while the Grand Cherokee which sells just about as many units, has had as many as 5 options currently, and never less than 3 options in that same period. Heck even the export market got a better range of engine options than the Wrangler’s home market, which is sad really.

I like seeing the EcoDiesel in the Wrangler, but the TinyTurbo4 doesn’t improve the mix, it just sits beside the Pentastar, offering no real benefit, unlike a bigger 4 cyling NA option for efficiency, or a Hemi for power, or a big displacement Turbo for efficient power 3.2L T or SC woulda been nice).

Now the Wrangler has 3 options on paper, but really only 2 distinct categories of capabilities.

 

[The Great Grape Ape]

Power is addicting what can I say?

LOL, yeah, the Tesla kinda gives that away.

 

[COBill]

Howdy,

So today I drove a Rubicon 3.6L 6-speed. I wasn't happy with the power.

Wow - it's like a rocketship compared to the old 4.0L I6 or the 3.8L "minivan" engine.

 

[word302]

No, it’s not.

1st gear on the 8 speed is a much Much HIGHER ratio than the NAG1/W5A580 (5:1 vs 3.59:1), it’s even higher than the outgoing NSG 6spd (5:1 vs 4.46:1) , I think your confusing shorter with lower. Short gear = High ratio, Tall gear = low ratio.
The effect you attribute afterwards is correct in that the 4.10 axle on a JL auto will have a crawl ratio similar to a much higher axle (although you low-sided the equivalent ratio by quite a lot).



No direct injection, still just port-injection on the Pentastar thankfully, although they did double the number of injectors and change the layout;
http://articles.sae.org/14322/

http://australiancar.reviews/2016_Pentastar_V6.php

A numerically higher ratio equates to a lower gear. 4.10 is lower than 3.73.

 

[DanW]

Wow - it's like a rocketship compared to the old 4.0L I6 or the 3.8L "minivan" engine.

Yeah, he must have driven a sick one. My JKU with 33s and the old 3.8, with 4.10 axles, isn't too bad. I have driven a 2013 JKU Sahara 3.6 with the auto and 3.73s, and it was quicker than my JKU, from just off idle all the way up. It felt good. I'd think it would be even better with 4.10s and a manual.

While some are disapointed, I'm looking forward to the 3.6 and its proven reliability. I'll have this thing out in BFE and don't want it to crap out. My old dog 3.8 has never had so much as a hiccup, and that's reassuring in the middle of a remote trail. Especially if you are deep in the woods and hearing banjos in the distance.

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