Engine/Transmission Options

[thenewrick]

Howdy,

So today I drove a Rubicon 3.6L 6-speed. I wasn't happy with the power. I'm hoping that the turbo-4 or even better 3.0L diesel will be available with the manual transmission.

I know it's still speculation and that the odds are against me, but, are there any hopes of landing a turbo engine with a manual transmission in a JL?

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[ERAUGrad04]

Howdy,

So today I drove a Rubicon 3.6L 6-speed. I wasn't happy with the power. I'm hoping that the turbo-4 or even better 3.0L diesel will be available with the manual transmission.

I know it's still speculation and that the odds are against me, but, are there any hopes of landing a turbo engine with a manual transmission in a JL?

Howdy!

I'm not holding my breath for higher HP/TQ numbers out of the 3.6L offered in the JL, however, there are a few things that should increase drivability and "performance."

• 8sp transmission with considerably better gear spread (keeping the engine in it's powerband while accelerating.
• 1st gear in the new 8spd is a much lower ratio than the outgoing 5spd NAG1. FWIW, a current JK with 37s and 5.13 gears has nearly an identical crawl ratio to a JL on 37s with 4.10s.
• The new 3.6L has direct injection and a new version of VVT. Both are supposed to contribute to a considerable shift left for both HP and Torque curves.
• The overall vehicle is lighter.

Just noticed you mentioned manual trans. My understanding is the 6spd manual being offered is very similar to the outgoing 6spd, so I'm not sure you'll see many benefits coming from the trans. However, the lighter weight and engine improvements should be noticable to the seat of the pants feel.

Hope this helps and good luck on your decision!

 

[thenewrick]

Thanks for the reply. I expect the JL with 3.6L will feel similar. I'm really hoping one of those turbo models is available with a manual. I come from a turbo-tuning background so I know how much performance can be unleashed from light modifications and a good tune. Ideally, I'd like to be around 300hp/tq on a conservative tune with little to no modification. I'd probably get the bug and start doing more eventually. I'm not sure if I'm comfortable supercharging or turbocharging the 3.6L though.

 

[DanW]

Thanks for the reply. I expect the JL with 3.6L will feel similar. I'm really hoping one of those turbo models is available with a manual. I come from a turbo-tuning background so I know how much performance can be unleashed from light modifications and a good tune. Ideally, I'd like to be around 300hp/tq on a conservative tune with little to no modification. I'd probably get the bug and start doing more eventually. I'm not sure if I'm comfortable supercharging or turbocharging the 3.6L though.

Indications are strong that the manual will only be available with the 3.6. The shift pattern is different from the NSG370 transmission in the JK, so it is believed to be an entirely different manual transmission. We shall soon see.

 

[BenoA]

JKU 2013 6 speed, 3.73 ratio owner here. I don't think the new JL will be much faster.

A few factors that don't help: it's a brick, it's heavy, the engine wakes up over 3500 rpm and it also depends on your added options that also will add weight. You got to go through the gear and push it. And once it's launched, it's no sport car but it can give you a smile in the face.

I drive mine like it's zombie apocalypse. It's not a rocket but I do have fun. Never drove an auto version so I can't compare.

For sure I will go try the JL when it's out. I'm curious about the 4 banger turbo to see how it drives but I bet you will still have to ram through the gear to get the juice out of it.

 

[TroyBoy]

The new 3.6L has direct injection and a new version of VVT. Both are supposed to contribute to a considerable shift left for both HP and Torque curves.

Where did you hear this? I thought it still didn't have direct injection and the HP was basically going to be the same. I hope you are right.

 

[DanW]

Where did you hear this? I thought it still didn't have direct injection and the HP was basically going to be the same. I hope you are right.

I've heard nothing to indicate direct injection will be on the 3.6. The updated version already out with the Grand Cherokee doesn't have it. What it does have is 14% more torque between 1,000 and 3,000rpm, but the peak is the same. That should improve driveability slightly. The 8 speed is supposedly a great match to the engine, as reported by Grand Cherokee owners with the updated Pentastar, however.

 

[thenewrick]

Yea, I know weight and gearing are important. I'd probably try for the 3.73 ratio as I've read that can improve acceleration somewhat. It's one of those conundrums in the auto industry where the manual transmissions are always in the base models with the smallest engines when people that actually buy manuals typically are enthusiasts who want the biggest engines. I guess time will tell.

 

[Spank]

My understanding is the 6spd manual being offered is very similar to the outgoing 6spd, so I'm not sure you'll see many benefits coming from the trans.

The rumor is that the manual for the JL will be a Tremec unit, which will be phenomenally better in virtually every way. The NSG370 wasn't even good in the TJ, let alone the JK, and I can't imagine they'd bring that old, dated, noisy POS over to the JL.

I'm hoping it's a similar one to what is in the Challenger. It's an excellent transmission.

 

[thenewrick]

The rumor is that the manual for the JL will be a Tremec unit, which will be phenomenally better in virtually every way. The NSG370 wasn't even good in the TJ, let alone the JK, and I can't imagine they'd bring that old, dated, noisy POS over to the JL.

I'm hoping it's a similar one to what is in the Challenger. It's an excellent transmission.

That sounds good. The shifter itself seemed extremely long and a bit.. rough. But I wasn't expecting the world in this regard. The clutch pedal travel was, WOW. It has such a long and light pedal. The pickup for the clutch is right at the top too and not much feel from it. Would take getting used to. Maybe some clutch pedal stoppers so it doesn't travel so far!

 

[The Great Grape Ape]

1st gear in the new 8spd is a much lower ratio than the outgoing 5spd NAG1.

No, it’s not.

1st gear on the 8 speed is a much Much HIGHER ratio than the NAG1/W5A580 (5:1 vs 3.59:1), it’s even higher than the outgoing NSG 6spd (5:1 vs 4.46:1) , I think your confusing shorter with lower. Short gear = High ratio, Tall gear = low ratio.
The effect you attribute afterwards is correct in that the 4.10 axle on a JL auto will have a crawl ratio similar to a much higher axle (although you low-sided the equivalent ratio by quite a lot).

The new 3.6L has direct injection and a new version of VVT. Both are supposed to contribute to a considerable shift left for both HP and Torque curves.

No direct injection, still just port-injection on the Pentastar thankfully, although they did double the number of injectors and change the layout;
http://articles.sae.org/14322/

http://australiancar.reviews/2016_Pentastar_V6.php

 

[BillyHW]

No direct injection, still just port-injection on the Pentastar thankfully, although they did double the number of injectors and change the layout;
http://articles.sae.org/14322/

http://australiancar.reviews/2016_Pentastar_V6.php

Is it certain we're getting this updated Pentastar in the 2018 JL, or will it be coming in 2019?

The reason I'm asking is because the BSG isn't coming until 2019 for the Pentastar. Why wouldn't they have just introduced it with the 2018 like the Turbo, that would make more sense, since it is the launch of the redesign? What's causing the delay in the BSG for the Pentastar?

Can we expect any problems/issues in the Turbo's BSG to be solved by the time it's installed in the Pentastar?

Finally, why on earth is the Wrangler the guinea pig for this new tech? Would it not have made more sense to try it out first in the Cherokee/Grand Cherokee first? Has FCA announced a BSG for any other model yet? (And I'm talking about the whole FCA portfolio, not just Jeep.)

 

[thenewrick]

I imagine you'll see the new turbo put in all kinds of vehicles around the same time.

 

[BillyHW]

Also, is the Diesel getting a BSG? Does the Diesel have ESS? (If not, why not, to both questions?)

 

[thenewrick]

Do you think there's any chance at all an average Joe like me could have FCA build a JL with a manual transmission even though it isn't an option for certain engines? I know there'd be warranty headaches and such things but it is a factory after all, most things are probably Lego.

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