Death Wobble / Bump Steer / Steering Issues / Drifting - RESOLVED

[jamesj242003]

Definitely check your ball joints. I checked mine and two were finger tight. I took it to the dealer and they said all of them were tight. They even retorqued them to the specs and put in new cotter pins. They told me they didn't move with the exception of one that had to be tighter than spec to get the cotter pin in. I checked them again after having it at the dealer and two of them are loose again. I'm guessing that the dealer is tightening them after he lifts it up and I am checking them on the ground with all the weight on the wheels. Sounds weird but I'm going to have them tighten them on the ground the next time. Still has not fixed the wandering problem.

That is pretty discouraging. Is your Jeep relatively new with low mileage? It makes me wonder if FCA is simply slapping some of these vehicles together without any quality control checks or if the specs that they've defined for some of their production line personnel or robots are simply wrong. Of all the Jeep JL Wranglers sold to date, there are several hundred out there that have real steering problems (see NHTSA complaints and JLWranglerForum), excessive vibrations while driving at speeds greater than 35-40 mph, and/or death wobble issues. In a number of cases, some Jeep dealerships are making genuine efforts to correct these problems, while many other dealers are claiming ignorance of this genuine safety problem and are simply returning these vehicles back to owners unrepaired. I would strongly encourage FCA's senior management and those spokespeople, who deny the existence of real safety issues, to drive these problematic Jeeps around as their primary vehicle for themselves and transport their respective families. Then have them go through the incredible frustration of returning these unsafe Jeeps to a dealership numerous times without a resolution. Only then, will they truly realize what those owners are really going through. Is FCA's senior management and/or their spokespeople willing to place themselves or their families in harms way? It is absolutely incredible that FCA has not taken a more proactive company wide approach to resolve these few hundred vehicles when they've already sold over 200,000 of them. For a few owners who have their own YouTube video film clips on the Jeep Wrangler that get wide exposure, FCA has been more than accommodating in replacing these problematic used vehicles with absolutely brand new ones. Guess FCA fears the repercussions the bad press would have on the sales targets. For the majority of the other problem vehicles, the truly frustrated owners have gone to 4x4 off-road shops (outside of the FCA organization) to solve these problems at their own expense. Unfortunately, it'll take some serious highway injuries and/or fatalities to occur before FCA is forced to implement truly effective corrective measures. Otherwise, it's business as usual for them.

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[jeremyjeep]

It makes me wonder if FCA is simply slapping some of these vehicles together without any quality control checks or if the specs that they've defined for some of their production line personnel or robots are simply wrong.

Agreed. Supporting references:

Hmmm #1 (Speeding up production): https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/new-record-561-jl-built-in-a-10-hour-shift.16617/
Hmmm #2 (More loose ball joints from the factory, even on 2019s): https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...s-drifting-resolved.17478/page-11#post-493283

 

[jeepauug]

I think this combination makes for a significantly improved driving experience, especially for the cost. In this case, the stabilizer was causing my JL death wobble. The trackbar is $240, and in my opinion a must have for lifted JL's, so yes I definitely recommend this combo.

Curious - I have a small lift (1.5" Leveling) - is the track bar overkill in this case? I am thinking for the price, why not...my steering is fine, I did add the Falcon steering stabilizer (non-adjustable version).

 

[Solidaxle]

I’m wondering if these new aluminum knuckles have anything to do with the loose ball joints.

 

[jeremyjeep]

I’m wondering if these new aluminum knuckles have anything to do with the loose ball joints.

Possibly. And might be part of the culprit for the steering wheel shimmy and death wobble. When I researched the parts list comparison between the 2018 and 2019 JLs, I accidentally discovered that all of the 2019 steering and suspension related components will be the same for 2020, except the knuckles part numbers applies to 2018-2019 only and will be different for the 2020 JL.

 

[brettJLg]

Well what an adventurous drive yesterday evening turned out to be.

I've taken my Sahara (roughly 2k miles on the odo) now on two separate "road trips" - both about an hour and a half either north or south respectively from Atlanta.

Last night, we decided to head south to a drive-through Christmas light display which would essentially put us in the Jeep for about 4-5 hours round trip including the light display - I genuinely thought twice about taking my wife's Audi Q5 but really wanted to be able to remove the freedom panels, and the fact that I even needed to think twice about driving my Sahara on a 1.5 road trip is a problem within itself.

As usual, the wandering and loose steering was its own issue, but a relatively wind-less day and keeping speeds ~65-70 kept things controllable...Until traffic picked up both density and speed - the jeep willingly highway driving at 75-80 mph - except for the steering. Sadly I remember quoting something along the lines of "Isn't this an insanely better ride then the rubicon at this speed?".

I then drove over a pavement transition between an overpass and the road (That 10+ year old Toyota
Altimas were hitting at the same speed) and it caused SEVERE steering wheel shaking, rendering the rig completely un-steerable for about 50 yards, scaring the living you know what out of me. Needless to say, I was terrified for the remainder of the evening; cringing at every pavement transition in fear i'd lose control again. Complete white-knuckle driving in the worst way. It made the evening considerably less enjoyable. I've driven a plethora of sports cars, trucks, and other SUVs and this was hands down the scariest thing i've ever experienced.

I noticed it slightly previously and had been waiting on a "solid" fix to come through to minimize my dealer brain damage but this was scary. I wouldn't ket my wife drive this vehicle, and my JK Rubicon NEVER did anything like this. THIS VEHICLE IS UNSAFE FOR HIGHWAY OPERATION.

BTW - Sahara is bone stock!! @JeepCares @Jeep this is a dangerous vehicle and you're going to kill someone if it's not fixed properly. What an absolute disgrace that a vehicle can be sold in this state - and all of these complaints will become evidence when your pants get sued off by someone who can't regain control of their vehicle and gets hurt.

 

[jamesj242003]

Well what an adventurous drive yesterday evening turned out to be.

I've taken my Sahara (roughly 2k miles on the odo) now on two separate "road trips" - both about an hour and a half either north or south respectively from Atlanta.

Last night, we decided to head south to a drive-through Christmas light display which would essentially put us in the Jeep for about 4-5 hours round trip including the light display - I genuinely thought twice about taking my wife's Audi Q5 but really wanted to be able to remove the freedom panels, and the fact that I even needed to think twice about driving my Sahara on a 1.5 road trip is a problem within itself.

As usual, the wandering and loose steering was its own issue, but a relatively wind-less day and keeping speeds ~65-70 kept things controllable...Until traffic picked up both density and speed - the jeep willingly highway driving at 75-80 mph - except for the steering. Sadly I remember quoting something along the lines of "Isn't this an insanely better ride then the rubicon at this speed?".

I then drove over a pavement transition between an overpass and the road (That 10+ year old Toyota
Altimas were hitting at the same speed) and it caused SEVERE steering wheel shaking, rendering the rig completely un-steerable for about 50 yards, scaring the living you know what out of me. Needless to say, I was terrified for the remainder of the evening; cringing at every pavement transition in fear i'd lose control again. Complete white-knuckle driving in the worst way. It made the evening considerably less enjoyable. I've driven a plethora of sports cars, trucks, and other SUVs and this was hands down the scariest thing i've ever experienced.

I noticed it slightly previously and had been waiting on a "solid" fix to come through to minimize my dealer brain damage but this was scary. I wouldn't ket my wife drive this vehicle, and my JK Rubicon NEVER did anything like this. THIS VEHICLE IS UNSAFE FOR HIGHWAY OPERATION.

BTW - Sahara is bone stock!! @JeepCares @Jeep this is a dangerous vehicle and you're going to kill someone if it's not fixed properly. What an absolute disgrace that a vehicle can be sold in this state - and all of these complaints will become evidence when your pants get sued off by someone who can't regain control of their vehicle and gets hurt.

Very sorry to hear about your harrowing experience with your new stock Jeep JL Wrangler on the highway. Just glad that you and your passengers (family members) are all right and were not injured from this defective new Jeep. If you have you think twice before driving your new Jeep every time, then you are in serious trouble because some of these vehicles are absolutely unsafe to drive on the highway. At this stage, it appears that FCA is simply not taking this safety issue seriously enough to make these few hundred vehicles safe for highway driving. Perhaps the only way to get repairs done effectively is to carry out a class action lawsuit against FCA.

 

[Solidaxle]

Possibly. And might be part of the culprit for the steering wheel shimmy and death wobble. When I researched the parts list comparison between the 2018 and 2019 JLs, I accidentally discovered that all of the 2019 steering and suspension related components will be the same for 2020, except the knuckles part numbers applies to 2018-2019 only and will be different for the 2020 JL.

The 2020 part number for the knuckle is possibly coinciding with the introduction of the Gladiator pick up truck. The gladiator is using basically the same axles with a higher GVW including thicker axle tubes so they probably have a heavier duty knuckle to match maybe even iron. That’s my guess.

 

[PavementWarrior]

I’m wondering if these new aluminum knuckles have anything to do with the loose ball joints.

they have a pin in place, so if they were on finger tight they forgot to torque.

 

[Solidaxle]

they have a pin in place, so if they were on finger tight they forgot to torque.

They forgot to torque was my first thought however Did anybody actually check the ball joints and find them torqued to spec? it seems like everybody that checked found them loose.
How about, they were torqued originally maybe some dissimilar metals were hot or cold or the ball joint moved in the aluminum because the aluminum is softer or something then nut would be loose and the cotter pin would still be in place.
Also if there is some problem or some movement with the steel and aluminum that would also explain why some are reporting that they torqued them and they come back to find them loose again ? How do you explain that ?

 

[Martindfletcher]

They forgot to torque was my first thought however Did anybody actually check the ball joints and find them torqued to spec? it seems like everybody that checked found them loose.
How about, they were torqued originally maybe some dissimilar metals were hot or cold or the ball joint moved in the aluminum because the aluminum is softer or something then nut would be loose and the cotter pin would still be in place.
Also if there is some problem or some movement with the steel and aluminum that would also explain why some are reporting that they torqued them and they come back to find them loose again ? How do you explain that ?

The loose ball joints happens when they torque them and it lines up perfect with cotter pin hole and they don’t tighten to the next one. The torque is so low this happens rather easy.

 

[Solidaxle]

The loose ball joints happens when they torque them and it lines up perfect with cotter pin hole and they don’t tighten to the next one. The torque is so low this happens rather easy.

So your saying Dana spicer is not following there own instructions by torquing and advancing to the next hole. OK
How do you explain people reporting that they torqued it and came back and found it was loose again?

 

[smithrd65]

Ford just recalled 900 thousand 150,s. Every man made item is flawed
Every car manufacturer has an issue this will never change.
I love my Rubicon and no its not perfect.
People want a perfect vehicle it will be a long wait.
OEM can't fix all issues sorry.
Like a lift doesn't mean you made the vehicle better or mods sorry we as Jeep owners cause some of the issues.

 

[smartbalance]

That is pretty discouraging. Is your Jeep relatively new with low mileage? It makes me wonder if FCA is simply slapping some of these vehicles together without any quality control checks or if the specs that they've defined for some of their production line personnel or robots are simply wrong. Of all the Jeep JL Wranglers sold to date, there are several hundred out there that have real steering problems (see NHTSA complaints and JLWranglerForum), excessive vibrations while driving at speeds greater than 35-40 mph, and/or death wobble issues. In a number of cases, some Jeep dealerships are making genuine efforts to correct these problems, while many other dealers are claiming ignorance of this genuine safety problem and are simply returning these vehicles back to owners unrepaired. I would strongly encourage FCA's senior management and those spokespeople, who deny the existence of real safety issues, to drive these problematic Jeeps around as their primary vehicle for themselves and transport their respective families. Then have them go through the incredible frustration of returning these unsafe Jeeps to a dealership numerous times without a resolution. Only then, will they truly realize what those owners are really going through. Is FCA's senior management and/or their spokespeople willing to place themselves or their families in harms way? It is absolutely incredible that FCA has not taken a more proactive company wide approach to resolve these few hundred vehicles when they've already sold over 200,000 of them. For a few owners who have their own YouTube video film clips on the Jeep Wrangler that get wide exposure, FCA has been more than accommodating in replacing these problematic used vehicles with absolutely brand new ones. Guess FCA fears the repercussions the bad press would have on the sales targets. For the majority of the other problem vehicles, the truly frustrated owners have gone to 4x4 off-road shops (outside of the FCA organization) to solve these problems at their own expense. Unfortunately, it'll take some serious highway injuries and/or fatalities to occur before FCA is forced to implement truly effective corrective measures. Otherwise, it's business as usual for them.

 

[smartbalance]

I have test driven 5 JLU's and they all had the wandering steering issue. When driving between 45-60 MPH these vehicles all "wandered." My experience was that holding the steering wheel steady did not keep the car in a straight line. It would wander slightly left or right depending on pavement, driving conditions. The vehicle seems to wander because when the wheel is turned in a direction, there is a 1 to 2 inch play before the front wheels turn in the direction intended.

When I experienced it the first time it was sort of fun. I have since changed my mind and decided that it is a significant problem and potentially dangerous. I was especially upset when the 5th one I drove, which was manufactured 9/18, had just been delivered to the dealership, and which I was prepared to buy, also had this issue. So, it seems to me that all JLU's have the wandering steering issue and that JEEP does not consider the issue significant. My guess is that many buyers of the JLU do not notice this steering issue, especially in short pre-purchase test drives. It also must be that many JLU owners drive differently or have different driving situations than I have. Many of the roads near me are 2 lane 45-60 MPH highways, and this vehicle does not work well on them.

My interest in purchasing one of these and my wandering experience led me to this forum website. My goal is to find out that Jeep has fixed this steering issue at the factory, so that I could then buy one and feel good about it. If anyone out there knows if and when this will be fixed at the factory, please let me know.

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