Death Wobble / Bump Steer / Steering Issues / Drifting - RESOLVED

[Chewbacca2264]

Dealer checked and the PCM was up to date with the flash when I purchased it in September. I have not touched the steering box as of yet. The more I have worked through this I am convinced that there is an issue with the geometry in the front end. The stabilizer was replaced because my date code was part of the bad run per the star case. The track bar was replaced because the stock one is junk, after the lift I wanted adjustability and to eliminate deflection. Both upgrades helped some but the caster seems to have really changed the steering dynamics.

Chewi

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[jamesj242003]

Dealer checked and the PCM was up to date with the flash when I purchased it in September. I have not touched the steering box as of yet. The more I have worked through this I am convinced that there is an issue with the geometry in the front end. The stabilizer was replaced because my date code was part of the bad run per the star case. The track bar was replaced because the stock one is junk, after the lift I wanted adjustability and to eliminate deflection. Both upgrades helped some but the caster seems to have really changed the steering dynamics.

Chewi

Chewbacca2264---Your may indeed be correct about the geometry (one other JL owner cited this), but it doesn't explain why there are so many Jeep JL Wranglers out there that are presumably steering properly. Of course, we are assuming that there are no complaints relating to steering/wobbling issues, as opposed to many JL owners really having some minor steering issues, but accepting it simply as a "Jeep Thing". Heard the OEM track bar is junk from multiple owners. Don't know if FCA has since installed an improved version of the track bar that does not flex since your vehicle production date.

 

[DeVoTee]

Chewi, what was you biggest concern with steering/handling... we have a Rubicon(stock for now and the rubicon has no issues) and a Moab (stock maybe rubi springs if it will give it an inch or so). The Moab has that wandering or a better way to describe it as loose feeling between 11 and 1 (think face of clock). When changing lanes at higher speeds you almost have to overcorrect to stay straight or remain in lane. No shimmy or wobble

Is this the experience you are/were having. Funny how very different two jeeps feel when driving at moderate or higher speeds.


Rubicon - 2000 miles
Moab - under 500 miles

 

[jamesj242003]

Chewi, what was you biggest concern with steering/handling... we have a Rubicon(stock for now and the rubicon has no issues) and a Moab (stock maybe rubi springs if it will give it an inch or so). The Moab has that wandering or a better way to describe it as loose feeling between 11 and 1 (think face of clock). When changing lanes at higher speeds you almost have to overcorrect to stay straight or remain in lane. No shimmy or wobble

Is this the experience you are/were having. Funny how very different two jeeps feel when driving at moderate or higher speeds.


Rubicon - 2000 miles
Moab - under 500 miles

Devotee-May I ask what were your approximate production dates on both JLs?

 

[DeVoTee]

July 13th for the Rubicon and the Moab was sometime in september/October.... just arrived at Dealer a week ago.

 

[smithrd65]

What if I told you that you can have a perfectly driving wrangler without ANY stabilizer at all? Death wobble almost all of the time is trackbar related. There is nothing wrong with the OEM trackbar, although your axle may be too far off center if your lift is too tall. Most of the time, it is because of a bad lift install, improperly torqued bolts, etc.

Awesome I agree, lift to high bad install but they all blame it on OEM, Then scared people run out and purchase the same stuff they did. And don't have an issue until after the install. My Rubicon has no issues.

 

[Chewbacca2264]

Chewi, what was you biggest concern with steering/handling... we have a Rubicon(stock for now and the rubicon has no issues) and a Moab (stock maybe rubi springs if it will give it an inch or so). The Moab has that wandering or a better way to describe it as loose feeling between 11 and 1 (think face of clock). When changing lanes at higher speeds you almost have to overcorrect to stay straight or remain in lane. No shimmy or wobble

Is this the experience you are/were having. Funny how very different two jeeps feel when driving at moderate or higher speeds.


Rubicon - 2000 miles
Moab - under 500 miles

DeVoTee,

I would say I had three issues with the handling of this thing, they were all significant so I guess which one was most important depended on what I was working on at that time. I will try to summarize this as best I can:

1. Loose steering/wandering-This is the same issue you are facing with your Moab, steering felt loose and the Jeep did not want to track in a straight line, lane changes could get rather interesting as the thing just does not track. I believe that this is a caster issue, since my work today I would say my Jeep is 80% in this area. Unfortunately I am guessing that I am going to have to drop the arms and add a bit more caster as it is still nervous and does not track as well as is should, though it is much better.

2. Death Wobble light-As I have previously stated on earlier posts I have not had full on death wobble, that said I definitely had a few instances of serous oscillation through the steering wheel. The two times that come to mind were both entering the interstate on a long steep uphill ramp. It happened twice in one week where at a speed of approximately 50mph while accelerating I hit a rough patch of pavement and the steering wheel began to shake and the entire front end followed suit. Definitely not full death wobble but the start of it. Both times I slowed down until it stopped and then accelerated without issue. This was dealt with by adding the stabilizer as my stock unit was one with the bad date code. Since I added the Nexus this has not happened again.

3. Bump steer/deflection-This was a tough one to figure out, Joe hit the nail on the head with the stock track bar. When hitting bumps with the stock track bar this thing had wicked bump steer, plus it did something else I have never experienced in a vehicle. It would bump steer in one direction and then deflect back the other way causing me to almost leave the road a couple of times. I guess for me it was similar to the wandering at highway speed, the Jeep would go both directions, a hard hit would send it one way and then it would bounce back hard the other. Hard to describe but this was very significant and almost put me in a ditch one night when a tractor trailer passed me in the oncoming lane. There was a dip in the road where he passed me and the jeep lurched to the right and then deflected hard the other way and I ended up in the oncoming lane before I gathered it up. Since adding the Yeti this is much better and now the Jeep seems to stay centered better.

Sorry to be long winded but I am not really a suspension guy and this has been a real SOB trying to work through this and figure it out. I am close now and think that another 1/2 degree of caster might finally get me where I want to be with this Jeep. As far as your two Jeeps all I can say is a buddy of mine has a very similar Jeep that he bought from the same dealer days before I bought mine. His drives great, tight and very responsive so I have no idea how mine could be so bad and his so good. I have a few ideas but it would not be correct for me to throw them out there with no proof.

Chewi

 

[jamesj242003]

DeVoTee,

I would say I had three issues with the handling of this thing, they were all significant so I guess which one was most important depended on what I was working on at that time. I will try to summarize this as best I can:

1. Loose steering/wandering-This is the same issue you are facing with your Moab, steering felt loose and the Jeep did not want to track in a straight line, lane changes could get rather interesting as the thing just does not track. I believe that this is a caster issue, since my work today I would say my Jeep is 80% in this area. Unfortunately I am guessing that I am going to have to drop the arms and add a bit more caster as it is still nervous and does not track as well as is should, though it is much better.

2. Death Wobble light-As I have previously stated on earlier posts I have not had full on death wobble, that said I definitely had a few instances of serous oscillation through the steering wheel. The two times that come to mind were both entering the interstate on a long steep uphill ramp. It happened twice in one week where at a speed of approximately 50mph while accelerating I hit a rough patch of pavement and the steering wheel began to shake and the entire front end followed suit. Definitely not full death wobble but the start of it. Both times I slowed down until it stopped and then accelerated without issue. This was dealt with by adding the stabilizer as my stock unit was one with the bad date code. Since I added the Nexus this has not happened again.

3. Bump steer/deflection-This was a tough one to figure out, Joe hit the nail on the head with the stock track bar. When hitting bumps with the stock track bar this thing had wicked bump steer, plus it did something else I have never experienced in a vehicle. It would bump steer in one direction and then deflect back the other way causing me to almost leave the road a couple of times. I guess for me it was similar to the wandering at highway speed, the Jeep would go both directions, a hard hit would send it one way and then it would bounce back hard the other. Hard to describe but this was very significant and almost put me in a ditch one night when a tractor trailer passed me in the oncoming lane. There was a dip in the road where he passed me and the jeep lurched to the right and then deflected hard the other way and I ended up in the oncoming lane before I gathered it up. Since adding the Yeti this is much better and now the Jeep seems to stay centered better.

Sorry to be long winded but I am not really a suspension guy and this has been a real SOB trying to work through this and figure it out. I am close now and think that another 1/2 degree of caster might finally get me where I want to be with this Jeep. As far as your two Jeeps all I can say is a buddy of mine has a very similar Jeep that he bought from the same dealer days before I bought mine. His drives great, tight and very responsive so I have no idea how mine could be so bad and his so good. I have a few ideas but it would not be correct for me to throw them out there with no proof.

Chewi

Very discouraging to know that it's a hit or miss scenario when purchasing a brand new Jeep Wrangler. If you happen to purchase one with poor quality control issues, it'll be an extremely time consuming and frustrating experience in trying to get everything resolved.

 

[jeremyjeep]

Heard the OEM track bar is junk from multiple owners. Don't know if FCA has since installed an improved version of the track bar that does not flex since your vehicle production date.

The track bar is the same part number and has never changed. Also, the 2019 JL has the same track bar part number as the 2018. One would think that if the track bar was a problem, that almost all JLs would have steering problems. Here are the steering related part numbers that have changed since the JL came out in December of last year:

1. Steering box. It is now -AD. It was noted in a Star case that it was more than a supplier change.
2. Steering stabilizer. It is now -AD. There is Star case that refers to the defective date codes.
3. Steering pump. It is now -AD. No indication if this was a supplier change or a modification. It would be great if someone could find out.

 

[NFRs2000NYC]

I wonder if the JL has the same wrong bolt size in the hole the JK had. I ran shouldered bolts on my JK and have NEVER had ANY steering issues over BOTH my JKUs with shouldered bolts.

 

[jamesj242003]

The track bar is the same part number and has never changed. Also, the 2019 JL has the same track bar part number as the 2018. One would think that if the track bar was a problem, that almost all JLs would have steering problems. Here are the steering related part numbers that have changed since the JL came out in December of last year:

1. Steering box. It is now -AD. It was noted in a Star case that it was more than a supplier change.
2. Steering stabilizer. It is now -AD. There is Star case that refers to the defective date codes.
3. Steering pump. It is now -AD. No indication if this was a supplier change or a modification. It would be great if someone could find out.

Thanks JeremyJeep. Agree with your perspective on the track bar.

 

[jamesj242003]

I wonder if the JL has the same wrong bolt size in the hole the JK had. I ran shouldered bolts on my JK and have NEVER had ANY steering issues over BOTH my JKUs with shouldered bolts.

Good question regarding the track bar bolt size on the JL, since that was a common problem (under sized bolt) on the JK as described by many owners.

 

[Chewbacca2264]

Here is my take on the track bar, if you are lucky enough to have a Jeep that handles properly the stock track bar is sufficient. My buddies Jeep drives great, there is no reason for him to mess with his track bar. Even with a small lift my guess is he would be ok as his Jeep is nice and tight if, however, you have one of the I'll handling Jeeps the track bar becomes marginal. In my case it eliminated the bump steer completely. My guess is that the track bar is not the issue but it definitely helps to beef up this part when you are fighting the handling. My belief is that it settled the Jeep down so I could keep it on the road while I figured out that I need more caster.......why my Jeep needs more caster and other Jeeps don't is really the mystery.

Chewi

 

[jamesj242003]

Here is my take on the track bar, if you are lucky enough to have a Jeep that handles properly the stock track bar is sufficient. My buddies Jeep drives great, there is no reason for him to mess with his track bar. Even with a small lift my guess is he would be ok as his Jeep is nice and tight if, however, you have one of the I'll handling Jeeps the track bar becomes marginal. In my case it eliminated the bump steer completely. My guess is that the track bar is not the issue but it definitely helps to beef up this part when you are fighting the handling. My belief is that it settled the Jeep down so I could keep it on the road while I figured out that I need more caster.......why my Jeep needs more caster and other Jeeps don't is really the mystery.

Chewi

Chewbacca2264---Thanks for the clarification. Did you have to reinforce the track bar mount with some type of bracing or did you conclude that the track bar mount was sufficiently strong and welded on properly?

 

[jeremyjeep]

My belief is that it settled the Jeep down so I could keep it on the road while I figured out that I need more caster.......why my Jeep needs more caster and other Jeeps don't is really the mystery.

Chewi

Probably because if there is a welding recall, it isn't too crazy to imagine they also didn't weld the locations exactly every time thus throwing off the geometry too on some JLs and not others. If the welding locations were spot on (no pun intended), then the caster range would be fine. But if a JLs geometry is way off, need to go above and beyond the spec's caster numbers.

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