Dealership fee norms? Florida? Shenanigans?

[Whaler27]

This isn’t a jeep question. It’s a local law and convention question. I’m trying to buy a pickup, but I haven’t been on the diesel truck forums much over the last ten years, so I don’t “know” people there. I’m hoping this group can fill me in on dealership gamesmanship and imaginary fees, particularly in Florida, Texas, and Colorado, as we have found trucks we like in all three states.

I’m preparing to retire, so I’m shopping for my retirement pickup truck. For whatever reason, the configuration I want is rare in the northwest, but I’ve found several in Florida and elsewhere, so we’re thinking about doing another “buy and fly” adventure.

I just spoke to an F&I person at Braden Ford in Tampa. I asked her what fees there were beyond the agreed purchase price. She said, “Just the standard shipping and $1,295 delivery fee, doc fee, license and title, and taxes.” I asked, “Is the shipping/delivery fee the one on the monroney sticker?” She said, “No this is an additional fee the dealership charges. It’s standard everywhere.”

When I bought my Raptor in Maine I wired the money to the dealership. The next day the dealer FedEx’d the MSO, invoice, and receipt for payment. No taxes. No prep fees, or doc fees, or delivery fees. I took the paperwork to Oregon DMV, got my plates and registration, flew to Maine, bolted on the plates, and drove home. The Braden Ford woman said Florida law requires them to process all DMV paperwork for me. (They can’t, of course, as they are not licensed DMV agents in Oregon and they have none of the related forms.). What if I didn’t intend to run the truck on public roads? And is a $1295 “prep fee“ really a standard practice out there? Doc fees for processing no docs? Any insight appreciated.

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[Bill_BCNtoNY]

I’d suggest you give Tom McParland a call - savvy guy that specializes on helping people buy cars. I’ve used him 3x myself and he’s worth the money. If you call he’ll either pick up or call you back himself, he’ll answer your question and theb you can decide to hire him or not.

I think his website is tomautomatchconsulting.com or something to that effect.

 

[Nitehawk92]

If you look at the Window sticker manufactures include a "destination" fee, Jeep for instance charged $1795 on my 2023 Rubicon to deliver the vehicle to the dealer. Unless they are shipping the vehicle to you, a $1295 delivery fee is bullshit. Ask them what is included in the delivery fee. It sound like just another way to stick it to you and steal your money. I would not do business for a stealership that has a delivery fee, unless the manufacturer isn't charging a fee. And you know the manufacturer is charging a "destination" fee. And what is the "standard" shipping fee in addition to a delivery fee? Do not do business with these people. Find an honest, if you can, dealership...

 

[Heimkehr]

I just spoke to an F&I person at Braden Ford in Tampa. I asked her what fees there were beyond the agreed purchase price. She said, “Just the standard shipping and $1,295 delivery fee, doc fee, license and title, and taxes.” I asked, “Is the shipping/delivery fee the one on the monroney sticker?” She said, “No this is an additional fee the dealership charges. It’s standard everywhere.”

At first glance, the $1,295.00 does seem like a rather inflated PDI and prep fee, both of which occur at the dealer itself. Said differently, they seem to be stretching the definition of the customer taking physical delivery of the vehicle beyond its elastic limits. The dealer rep then muddies the waters when she says that the shipping/delivery fee -- the one we'd expect to see on the Monroney -- is "an additional fee" not on the window sticker. At that point, she lost me a bit with the apparent semantic games she's playing.

You might consider asking her to email you an itemized list of all of their fees, to parse out just what the hell they're trying to extract from the customer.

By way of example, when buying a new or used vehicle, PA dealers must charge certain fixed fees that go straight to PENNDOT. These include costs to process the title, tag and registration documents. Our Honda dealer has the related chart in plain sight in the showroom, and I've no dispute with that honest disclosure.

As for cleaning and inspecting the vehicle for delivery ("prep"), in my experience dealers can charge whatever they want to in order to remain competitive. That can be a negotiating point, depending on how salty their internal fees may appear.

I hope this helps.

 

[Whaler27]

If you look at the Window sticker manufactures include a "destination" fee, Jeep for instance charged $1795 on my 2023 Rubicon to deliver the vehicle to the dealer. Unless they are shipping the vehicle to you, a $1295 delivery fee is bullshit. Ask them what is included in the delivery fee. It sound like just another way to stick it to you and steal your money. I would not do business for a stealership that has a delivery fee, unless the manufacturer isn't charging a fee. And you know the manufacturer is charging a "destination" fee. And what is the "standard" shipping fee in addition to a delivery fee? Do not do business with these people. Find an honest, if you can, dealership...

Exactly — that’s why I asked her if she was referring to the fee listed on the Monroney sticker. (In my book, fees beyond the Monroney sticker all equate to “ADM” unless they are doing something more than just selling me the truck (or there are pass-through fees from the government.) When I told her it wasn’t ”standard” in Oregon, California, Utah, or Maine, she said it was standard everywhere she had worked (D.C. and Florida).

We old guys were buying cars when there was no such thing as a “doc fee”. Paying folks to process paperwork was a cost of doing business for car dealerships, just as it is a cost of doing business for contractors, mechanics, lawyers, doctors, toy stores, and everybody else. Tacking on a “doc” fee is an invention that came about shortly before airlines started charging “baggage fees”. Out here I recently heard of a dealer charging $495 for a “doc fee”. Complete BS. They must be paying their DMV clerks about $500 per hour, as the gals at our local Ford dealer mow through four or five of those transactions per hour.

 

[pfletcher229648]

We live in central Florida. Ordered our 2022 in Florida, from a family owned honest dealership, then they got bought out by the ever increasing mega-dealerships. They consistently add ~ $1500 to $2000 or more for "Stuff" and "dealer installed options". I don't mind paying a reasonable "processing" fee to the dealer, but most seem to view it as a way to pad their profit. The tax/tag/title are all pretty much straight forward fees that should be separated. It's very difficult to find what I would consider honest straight up dealers in the central Florida area. Hence, we ordered our 2024 Wrangler from Tri-City in Eden, NC. Ask for a detailed line item on all fees, if they aren't willing to give that to you then run away.

I would hit the forums on the vehicle you want to buy and place an order for what you want. That way you are assured you can pick your dealer and pick your vehicle to your liking. Good Luck and Happy Retirement.

 

[Whaler27]

At first glance, the $1,295.00 does seem like a rather inflated PDI and prep fee, both of which occur at the dealer itself. Said differently, they seem to be stretching the definition of the customer taking physical delivery of the vehicle beyond its elastic limits. The dealer rep then muddies the waters when she says that the shipping/delivery fee -- the one we'd expect to see on the Monroney -- is "an additional fee" not on the window sticker. At that point, she lost me a bit with the apparent semantic games she's playing.

You might consider asking her to email you an itemized list of all of their fees, to parse out just what the hell they're trying to extract from the customer.

By way of example, when buying a new or used vehicle, PA dealers must charge certain fixed fees that go straight to PENNDOT. These include costs to process the title, tag and registration documents. Our Honda dealer has the related chart in plain sight in the showroom, and I've no dispute with that honest disclosure.

As for cleaning and inspecting the vehicle for delivery ("prep"), in my experience dealers can charge whatever they want to in order to remain competitive. That can be a negotiating point, depending on how salty their internal fees may appear.

I hope this helps.

I think that’s a good idea. I’ll see if a salesperson will do the legwork for me.

I agree that dealers can add whatever fees they want. What’s irksome is the smoke-n-mirrors shenanigans. In my book, unless it’s a pass-through government fee of some kind, anything above the Monroney price is just dealership “ADM”. It doesn’t matter if they call it “doc fees”, “detail fees”, or mandatory dog-walking and mule-loping fees, it’s just markup with creative labels. I’d prefer them to just call it out instead of trying to slip me a wet-willy when I’m half way through the transaction.

Also, it seems strange to try to collect sales tax or DMV fees from out of state folks. I’ve never had to pay those fees before. By the time I get to the dealership to take delivery I have already done all the DMV stuff — that’s why I have registration and plates in hand. At that point the dealership has no paperwork to do — it’s no different from selling a chainsaw or a lawnmower.

 

[NavyFSU]

It’s a crappy way to add more profit directly to them since they believe their margin isn’t big enough and they don’t report it back to jeep as what they sold the price of the car for… but they will never get rid of it…..so….. whatever their dealer fee is, have the same amount deducted from price of the vehicle….. so dealership fee will still on final doc but it’s a wash since it was subtracted from actual negotiated price of vehicle before tax and fees….
If they don’t do that, walk and try again elsewhere.

 

[tomk62]

@Whaler27 these guys might be helpful to you: https://caredge.com/guides/understanding-car-dealer-fees

https://community.caredge.com/c/general/help-me-fellow-floridians

 

[NavyFSU]

Go to YouTube… look up CarEdge and watch their videos about fees and which ones are utter bulls…..

 

[NavyFSU]

@Whaler27 these guys might be helpful to you: https://caredge.com/guides/understanding-car-dealer-fees

U beat me to it! Ha!

 

[Whaler27]

@Whaler27 these guys might be helpful to you: https://caredge.com/guides/understanding-car-dealer-fees

https://community.caredge.com/c/general/help-me-fellow-floridians

Watched the video. Lots of good information, most of it familiar, but having it all organized and presented like that really emphasized the amount of deception tools the dealers use. Watching it made my blood pressure rise. All that deceptive bullshit underscores why people hate car salesman as much as they hate lawyers — and that’s saying a lot.

Thanks for the tip!

Sounds like folks in Florida are hostage to a terrible system. Fortunately, pretty much any other state is closer to me, so I’ll just keep shopping. Frankly, after watching the video, reading the linked posts, and spending part of the morning and afternoon reading and talking to dealers down there, I can’t believe more people don’t leave the state to buy new cars and trucks. (To add insult to injury, the dealers down there were also adding $1000 to $2000 to the Monroney price on the diesel trucks I was looking at. In other parts of the country the trucks start out $5,000 to $7,000 below sticker.)

 

[mwilk012]

I think that’s a good idea. I’ll see if a salesperson will do the legwork for me.

I agree that dealers can add whatever fees they want. What’s irksome is the smoke-n-mirrors shenanigans. In my book, unless it’s a pass-through government fee of some kind, anything above the Monroney price is just dealership “ADM”. It doesn’t matter if they call it “doc fees”, “detail fees”, or mandatory dog-walking and mule-loping fees, it’s just markup with creative labels. I’d prefer them to just call it out instead of trying to slip me a wet-willy when I’m half way through the transaction.

Also, it seems strange to try to collect sales tax or DMV fees from out of state folks. I’ve never had to pay those fees before. By the time I get to the dealership to take delivery I have already done all the DMV stuff — that’s why I have registration and plates in hand. At that point the dealership has no paperwork to do — it’s no different from selling a chainsaw or a lawnmower.

So, you're saying you would rather the fees be hidden in the price of the vehicle.

 

[4xFUN]

This isn’t a jeep question. It’s a local law and convention question. I’m trying to buy a pickup, but I haven’t been on the diesel truck forums much over the last ten years, so I don’t “know” people there. I’m hoping this group can fill me in on dealership gamesmanship and imaginary fees, particularly in Florida, Texas, and Colorado, as we have found trucks we like in all three states.

I’m preparing to retire, so I’m shopping for my retirement pickup truck. For whatever reason, the configuration I want is rare in the northwest, but I’ve found several in Florida and elsewhere, so we’re thinking about doing another “buy and fly” adventure.

I just spoke to an F&I person at Braden Ford in Tampa. I asked her what fees there were beyond the agreed purchase price. She said, “Just the standard shipping and $1,295 delivery fee, doc fee, license and title, and taxes.” I asked, “Is the shipping/delivery fee the one on the monroney sticker?” She said, “No this is an additional fee the dealership charges. It’s standard everywhere.”

When I bought my Raptor in Maine I wired the money to the dealership. The next day the dealer FedEx’d the MSO, invoice, and receipt for payment. No taxes. No prep fees, or doc fees, or delivery fees. I took the paperwork to Oregon DMV, got my plates and registration, flew to Maine, bolted on the plates, and drove home. The Braden Ford woman said Florida law requires them to process all DMV paperwork for me. (They can’t, of course, as they are not licensed DMV agents in Oregon and they have none of the related forms.). What if I didn’t intend to run the truck on public roads? And is a $1295 “prep fee“ really a standard practice out there? Doc fees for processing no docs? Any insight appreciated.

This dealership is the very definition of "Stealership"

Run, don't walk away from these clowns...

 

[Whaler27]

Copy that. That’s where my day’s journey finally concluded. I looked there because, inexplicably, they are the largest Ford dealer in the country. They had three F350 diesel platinum tremors in stock...

A Utah dealer has a couple inbound, and they are apologetic about their $299 document fee, which is clearly posted. Looks like no other invented fees and BS.

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