Cold climate = no go

[Dyolfknip74]

I wonder if a solar system trickle charger, like the Cascadia 4x4 VSS, can be modified to trickle charge the EV battery.....? There are a lot of sunny freeze your tits off days during the winter where you could be generating 80w of power all the time during the day. Cascadia says their system will charge a dead battery to full in like 30-45min in sunlight.

I am about to install the Rubicon version (30 watts) on my 2.0 with the smaller solar panel, primarily as a trickle charger to maintain my batteries.

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[Slaw32]

Sure you did....

Yep , sure did .

 

[Slaw32]

Thinking the folks that own a 4xe that live where winter can be severe should look at this thread .

Fuel and oil refresh mode in progress engine running - stuck!!!

It is on this forum by owners experiencing major issues .
Apparently the vehicle has to get engine to high temperatures to clear it . How do you clear it ?
Answer , run the ice motor , at idle to get internal temp up . Apparently the temperature doesn't get hot enough while actually driving in the cold , you have to have be sitting still to get to proper operating temperature .
That sounds counterproductive if you are trying to save energy .
How much fuel is going to be wasted doing this ? Besides the extra emissions . It's not even wnter yet .
Too bad for all the folks that spent alot of money for a energy saving vehicle , only to have to use more fossil fuel because of poor design for the conditions they will be facing .

 

[mllcb42]

It is on this forum by owners experiencing major issues

Im not convinced this is the smoking gun you think it is.

FORM is triggered for two reasons; to clear out stale gas and to drive out dissolved fuel in the oil. Cold engine starts result in a bit of fuel getting past the rings. PHEVs have lots and lots of cold engine starts compared to normal engines.

As a result, the vehicle looks to verify that the oil has got hot enough to drive off any fuel in the oil. If it hasn't, enter FORM until it does.

People appear to be getting stuck in FORM because the way they're driving doesn't get the oil hot enough. As the weather gets colder, this is happening more. Does that mean the vehicle is broken?

Worst case scenario, it means in cold weather, you're in the same boat as having a non-phev. More realistically, it means one needs to adjust their behavior based on the weather conditions to make sure they're getting the vehicle up to temp.

Diesel drivers run into the exact same issue. Cold weather means overcooling. If a diesel doesn't come fully up to temp, it run less efficiently, wasting fuel and putting out more emissions. People often address this when temps go south by putting on winter grill guards to limit airflow specifically to help the drivetrain more efficiently come up to temperature.

Now, could jeep have designed the system to better manage cooling to prevent the need to modify one's behavior here? Perhaps. Active grill shutters, for example, would probably do the trick, but there's extra cost and complexity there.

The biggest issue with the FORM problem seems to go back to what's been said many times here; it's the vehicle not behaving how someone thinks it should behave rather than it not behaving how it actually behaves.

 

[Slaw32]

Having to run the ice motor at idle to get temperature to proper level isn't very efficient , or is it ? Sounds like vehicle is designed to operate under certain internal temperatures . Driving it , which is why you buy a vehicle , under cold conditions does not get it to proper internal temperature , so you must run the ice motor , at idle , to get temperature up to fix the issue .
Pretty sure that if the owners knew about the vehicle not being able to get to proper temp causing this issue would have made a different buying decision .
Maybe we should ask the owners that are experiencing this if they are having buyers remorse .
So in the meantime , there will be vehicles designed to save energy using it excessively because of the design .
Color it how you want having to idle a vehicle as described in the other thread is not energy saving .

 

[mllcb42]

Having to run the ice motor at idle to get temperature to proper level isn't very efficient , or is it ? Sounds like vehicle is designed to operate under certain internal temperatures . Driving it , which is why you buy a vehicle , under cold conditions does not get it to proper internal temperature , so you must run the ice motor , at idle , to get temperature up to fix the issue .
Pretty sure that if the owners knew about the vehicle not being able to get to proper temp causing this issue would have made a different buying decision .
Maybe we should ask the owners that are experiencing this if they are having buyers remorse .
So in the meantime , there will be vehicles designed to save energy using it excessively because of the design .
Color it how you want having to idle a vehicle as described in the other thread is not energy saving .

The engine has to come to temperature. These things happen.

Its a hybrid, not an ev. Sometimes it uses electricity only, sometimes it uses gas only, most of the time it uses them both concurrently. Not being able to run in ev only mode while things get up to temperature does not mean that no electricity is being used.

You're overlaying your misinterpretation of what you think the vehicle is doing vs what it actually is doing.

 

[Slaw32]

One question , is having to idle this vehicle , after driving it , to get it to proper temperature in the cold weather an efficient use of energy ? This is a yes or no question . Since you seem to know way more about this vehicle than I do . You should be able to answer in one word . I will wait for you response ......



Still waiting ,,,, jeopardy theme playing in the background .

 

[gerlbaum]

For clarification -- there are no federal mandates, laws, or elimination of choice about EV vs ICE. There are incentives for PHEVS, BEVs, and FCEVs. There are no sticks, only carrots.

There may be some state mandates coming to require all new vehicles to be zero emission (Newsom ordered one by 2035 -- not in seven years, but 13 -- but we'll see if that actually happens), but importantly they're not federal.

You sure? Last I checked the EPA dictates emissions laws and as a result of those gas engines are being phased out. So you are 100% wrong. The 392 is discontinued as a direct result of more stringent emissions requirements.

You’re right, it’s 2035 not 2030.

EDIT
I should clarify I’m not against the EPA. No, I don’t want pollution everywhere. I just wish there were better methods to administer it.

 

[gerlbaum]

What does any of that have to do with if the 4xe will start when it's -22f out?

That all may be true, but the relevant question at hand here is the technical behavior of the vehicle in cold weather.

You're arguing about a completely different topic. It may be a valid argument, but it's an argument to a different conversation.

1) who is arguing
2) I wasn’t talking to you

 

[mllcb42]

2) I wasn’t talking to you

You literally quoted my post in your reply.

 

[tykurez]

You literally quoted my post in your reply.

This thread was a bait from the beginning so not sure why you continue to engage?

My use case: I’m in a cold climate - 41st parallel. I understand the limitations of a PHEV. I have a short commute and the electric range covers it. When I plan some longer trips in the spring/summer, I’m excited to throw it in e-save and do some light trails in all electric.

If you’re not buying a run of the mill mid-sized sedan or SUV/minivan, then almost every other car has ”use cases” and limitations. Even just buying a Wrangler itself comes with limitations that a buyer should be aware of.

So thanks for starting a thread to tell us it isn’t for you, I guess? Doesn’t mean it’s not for everyone else or that Jeep/Stellantis engineers aren’t smart enough to think about cold climates.

 

[2018JLRUSellersremorse]

Thinking the folks that own a 4xe that live where winter can be severe should look at this thread .

Fuel and oil refresh mode in progress engine running - stuck!!!

It is on this forum by owners experiencing major issues .
Apparently the vehicle has to get engine to high temperatures to clear it . How do you clear it ?
Answer , run the ice motor , at idle to get internal temp up . Apparently the temperature doesn't get hot enough while actually driving in the cold , you have to have be sitting still to get to proper operating temperature .
That sounds counterproductive if you are trying to save energy .
How much fuel is going to be wasted doing this ? Besides the extra emissions . It's not even wnter yet .
Too bad for all the folks that spent alot of money for a energy saving vehicle , only to have to use more fossil fuel because of poor design for the conditions they will be facing .

If you run the ICE for the sole purpose of clearing the Fuel and Refresh mode then that could be considered to be wasted fuel.

I like the Fuel and Refresh mode. I drive 32 miles roundtrip to wok and back. I can charge at work but in FRM I get 39 miles to the gallon and a full charge will last almost 2 days for it get's to the -1%.

From the 4Xe groups I am a member of, most bought for new tech and the power. I am one of those. The Jeep was the least "green" of almost all EVs. If you are going green this is not the vehicle to choose. Most people know that. I have 375hp and the torque is 470 and I have at the gas pump. I love it.

I have owned several cars and trucks in the past as most of you have. I have never known of 1 that has not has a issue here and there. I have only had one over 100,000 miles or longer than 5 years. My 4Xe is great! I love it. In 4 to 5 years who know what I will get next but for now this is a blast to drive!

These are my experiences and opinions. From your past post I an expecting you will discard my experience as a outlier and not a reason to buy. But if it was was negative you would quote it as an issue and reason not to buy.

You made the choice that you think is best for you and so did I and a lot of the folks you fell bad for buying. Don't fell bad, we made our choice ( and had the money to spend). Keep in mind "a lot" of us bought for tech and power and not necessarily energy savings.

 

[Bmeister]

@mllcb42,
.....With hydrogen fuel cells, Hydrogen is used to combust with Oxygen primarily producing power while emitting just H2O (water) and water vapor. In concept it's a great idea. In reality it's a logistical nightmare. Can you think Hindenburg? Still, it's a technology that has promise, as long as the infrastructure can be solved to safely transport the hydrogen fuel. Yes, no small task.

We should leave no stone unturned in our quest to reduce carbon footprint. But batteries are toxic, inefficient and expensive. We're just choosing to ignore these cons in our headlong endeavor to kill all things fossil fuel related......

Jay

Being a nature lover, I'm all for reducing pollution but have to disagree about hydrogen here. Hydrogen should be (and maybe long term is) the future fuel. The Hindenburg is an outlier and different than a compressed, armored hydrogen tank in a vehicle. In contrast to the mining/pollution to produce lithium cells, electricity to yield hydrogen by electrolysis can be generated with solar/wind.

If hydrogen is considered dangerous now, just wait until there is an EV pileup and lithium batteries burst into uncontrollable flames; fire departments are still not ready to deal with EV battery fires. The fact is, there is no perfect alternative.

That said, more troubling is the zealot-like rush to "switch from oil" to lithium cells without considering all of the petrochemicals that we need from oil (lubricants, medicines, plastics, bitumen for roads, etc.). Also, what will we do with the gasoline that is leftover after refining oil? This is not a simple decision no matter how well all of the slick-talking politicians and their media sycophants are otherwise spouting.

 

[2018JLRUSellersremorse]

One question , is having to idle this vehicle , after driving it , to get it to proper temperature in the cold weather an efficient use of energy ? This is a yes or no question . Since you seem to know way more about this vehicle than I do . You should be able to answer in one word . I will wait for you response ......



Still waiting ,,,, jeopardy theme playing in the background .

You do not have to idle this vehicle after driving to get a proper temp. If you are are just wanting to get the fuel refresh cleared than sure. But that is not a issue. As explained to you before it is not a EV. It is designed to run on both and usually at the same time. The fuel refresh will also come on to prevent stall gas in the tank.

You would be better off getting more info on the 4Xe before arguing things you do not understand.

Don't buy one. It's not for you.

 

[Slaw32]

You do not have to idle this vehicle after driving to get a proper temp. If you are are just wanting to get the fuel refresh cleared than sure. But that is not a issue. As explained to you before it is not a EV. It is designed to run on both and usually at the same time. The fuel refresh will also come on to prevent stall gas in the tank.

You would be better off getting more info on the 4Xe before arguing things you do not understand.

Don't buy one. It's not for you.

Read the thread that is posted that I referred to in post #96

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