6th Gear?

[Red Willy]

Hey everyone. I’m a new forum member on my 3rd Jeep, but first one with Manual transmission.

I know this thread is about 6th gear and it’s uselessness, but since all of you have the same transmission I figured I’d ask.

Anyone else’s 1st into 2nd gear shift make a horrific driveline noise if not done perfectly ??

Asking to save myself a trip to the dealer. Thank you and sorry for asking an off topic question.

Mine shifts like butter. Much better than my JK.

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[Chugiakguy]

Hey everyone. I’m a new forum member on my 3rd Jeep, but first one with Manual transmission.

I know this thread is about 6th gear and it’s uselessness, but since all of you have the same transmission I figured I’d ask.

Anyone else’s 1st into 2nd gear shift make a horrific driveline noise if not done perfectly ??

Asking to save myself a trip to the dealer. Thank you and sorry for asking an off topic question.

Can't say that I've noticed that myself.

(2022 2-door Willys Sport)

 

[toothirtyj]

I did a small write up when I regeared my 21 Willys (<- Link to the write up).

Results of going from 3.45 to 4.10 on stock Willys tires:

- Same if not better fuel mileage. (Engine stays between 2000 - 2500 RPM)
- Actually use 5th and 6th gear on the highway and the overdrive gears can hold higher grades easier.
- Better acceleration performance.
- Better engine braking performance.
- Still use 1st gear to start from a stop.
- Slower reverse gear idle speed (More ideal in my opinion)
- Better crawl ratio for off road driving

AKA: Sport Jeep owners will not regret the decision to regear if a regear is in your budget.

 

[Chugiakguy]

I did a small write up when I regeared my 21 Willys.

Results of going from 3.45 to 4.10 on stock Willys tires:

- Same if not better fuel mileage. (Engine stays between 2000 - 2500 RPM)
- Actually use 5th and 6th gear on the highway and the overdrive gears can hold higher grades easier.
- Better acceleration performance.
- Better engine braking performance.
- Still use 1st gear to start from a stop.
- Slower reverse gear idle speed (More ideal in my opinion)
- Better crawl ratio for off road driving

AKA: Sport Jeep owners will not regret the decision to regear if a regear is in your budget.

Toothirtyyj, can you give us an estimate, at least, of the the cost to regear from the stock 3.45?

(I have a 2022 2-door Willys Sport, with the 3.6 liter non-e-torque engine, manual transmission, and with the stock 255/75R17 tires, which I plan to keep.)

Also, can you speak to the potential advantages, and disadvantages, of regearing from 3.45 to 4.56?

 

[Blazing Saddles]

Toothirtyyj, can you give us an estimate, at least, of the the cost to regear from the stock 3.45?

(I have a 2022 2-door Willys Sport, with the 3.6 liter non-e-torque engine, manual transmission, and with the stock 255/75R17 tires, which I plan to keep.)

Also, can you speak to the potential advantages, and disadvantages, of regearing from 3.45 to 4.56?

If the 4.56s on your tires are as sweet as the 4.88s on 33s with the manual, you will be grinning ear to ear every time you crank the engine.

 

[Chugiakguy]

If the 4.56s on your tires are as sweet as the 4.88s on 33s with the manual, you will be grinning ear to ear every time you crank the engine.

?!

I've only got a few hundred miles on the Jeep so far, and I've been tying to convince myself that it's sluggishness is just due to breaking-in, but somehow I am more and more coming to the conclusion that that is just wishful thinking.

 

[OrneryBear]

If the 4.56s on your tires are as sweet as the 4.88s on 33s with the manual, you will be grinning ear to ear every time you crank the engine.

Ugh...you're really making me regret not going 4.88s. I'm sure we'll still love it with the 4.10s but I should have gone with my gut. I almost loved it with the 3.45s in the willys so i'm sure we'll be ok.

 

[toothirtyj]

Toothirtyyj, can you give us an estimate, at least, of the the cost to regear from the stock 3.45?

(I have a 2022 2-door Willys Sport, with the 3.6 liter non-e-torque engine, manual transmission, and with the stock 255/75R17 tires, which I plan to keep.)

Also, can you speak to the potential advantages, and disadvantages, of regearing from 3.45 to 4.56?

02/2022 Prices:
Dana/Spicer 4.10 Gear Sets Front/rear: $349 x 2 = $698.00
Eaton M186 Front ELocker: $1049.00
Yukon Gear Install Kits: $279 x 2 = 558.00
Gear Installation (each axle): $499.00 = $998.00
Tazer JL Mini Programmer: $299.00
+ TAX
Total Parts/Install out the door: $3,785

Choosing which gear ratio is best for your Jeep is a matter of finding the point of peak performance for your Jeep's particular configuration, and being willing to trade one thing for another.

With your 3.6L/6MT, stock tires, 4.56 is generally better than the 4.10 or 3.45 in the following areas: better acceleration, better engine braking, better grade holding in overdrive gears (5th and 6th), better crawl ratio for off road driving, slower reverse gear idling

With your 3.6L/6MT, stock tires, 4.56 is generally worse than the 4.10 or 3.45 in the following areas: top speed (*if it wasn't computer limited anyway, which it is, aka not an issue*)

With your 3.6L/6MT, stock tires, 4.56 is subjectively better or worse than 4.10 or 3.45 in transmission gear use (maybe 1st becomes to short to use from a stop... maybe highway cruising speed in 6th gear causes too much engine noise and becomes annoying on long trips), fuel economy (maybe the 4.56 gearing increases average engine RPM above it's peak fuel economy range and decreases economy instead of maintaining or improving)

The subjective part falls on you to decide what is important to you and what is not. However, as you can see, the cons are small compared to the pros...

 

[Blazing Saddles]

?!

I've only got a few hundred miles on the Jeep so far, and I've been tying to convince myself that it's sluggishness is just due to breaking-in, but somehow I am more and more coming to the conclusion that that is just wishful thinking.

I think it is. From my understanding of the opinions that I see constantly in various threads, the V6 with the manual really enjoys the deep gearing. Many people seem to enjoy the 4.88s on 33s, even though the consensus was that it was too low for tires that size. I wish that Jeep would pair the manual with the sport on 4.10s and the Rubis with 4.88s, especially with the tow packages. I've only had experience driving the 4.10s and the 4.88s, both on Rubis, and with the manual, the deeper the gears the better.

 

[Chugiakguy]

02/2022 Prices:
Dana/Spicer 4.10 Gear Sets Front/rear: $349 x 2 = $698.00
Eaton M186 Front ELocker: $1049.00
Yukon Gear Install Kits: $279 x 2 = 558.00
Gear Installation (each axle): $499.00 = $998.00
Tazer JL Mini Programmer: $299.00
+ TAX
Total Parts/Install out the door: $3,785

Choosing which gear ratio is best for your Jeep is a matter of finding the point of peak performance for your Jeep's particular configuration, and being willing to trade one thing for another.

With your 3.6L/6MT, stock tires, 4.56 is generally better than the 4.10 or 3.45 in the following areas: better acceleration, better engine braking, better grade holding in overdrive gears (5th and 6th), better crawl ratio for off road driving, slower reverse gear idling

With your 3.6L/6MT, stock tires, 4.56 is generally worse than the 4.10 or 3.45 in the following areas: top speed (*if it wasn't computer limited anyway, which it is, aka not an issue*)

With your 3.6L/6MT, stock tires, 4.56 is subjectively better or worse than 4.10 or 3.45 in transmission gear use (maybe 1st becomes to short to use from a stop... maybe highway cruising speed in 6th gear causes too much engine noise and becomes annoying on long trips), fuel economy (maybe the 4.56 gearing increases average engine RPM above it's peak fuel economy range and decreases economy instead of maintaining or improving)

The subjective part falls on you to decide what is important to you and what is not. However, as you can see, the cons are small compared to the pros...

Thanks Toothirty!

That mostly confirms a lot of what I already knew, or suspected, but it is really good to get that kind of info from somebody with firsthand knowledge and experience with the same (or almost the same) situation that I am in, and also would like to be in.

I'm not at all worried about excessive engine noise while cruising on the highway, as here in Alaska the speed on any longer drive is limited by the vast majority of our 'highways' being 2-lane, twisting and turning, climbing and descending roads. So in practice, I almost never drive over 60 mph, and would only exceed that while passing (which is not a very common maneuver for me anyway).

However, I will semi-regularly be towing a small (4' X 6') enclosed cargo trailer, weighing maybe 1100 lbs loaded, with maybe 500 lbs of cargo in the back of the Jeep at the same time (I will install an AirLift air springs system on the rear end, to mitigate the sag and wallowing that I'd otherwise get with this kind of load). So I can TOTALLY see this engine lugging even in 4th at 55 mph if I should hit the slightest incline with that setup.

Also, having a trailer that I will be using weekly for about half of the year, it would be nice to have a reverse gear that does not force me to ride the clutch at anything less than 5 mph, which is rather faster than I would choose to back up to a trailer.

So I'm sure that regearing to 4.11 would be a big improvement for me, I've just been wondering if 4.56 would not be even better, for all the reasons given.

 

[toothirtyj]

Thanks Toothirty!

That mostly confirms a lot of what I already knew, or suspected, but it is really good to get that kind of info from somebody with firsthand knowledge and experience with the same (or almost the same) situation that I am in, and also would like to be in.

I'm not at all worried about excessive engine noise while cruising on the highway, as here in Alaska the speed on any longer drive is limited by the vast majority of our 'highways' being 2-lane, twisting and turning, climbing and descending roads. So in practice, I almost never drive over 60 mph, and would only exceed that while passing (which is not a very common maneuver for me anyway).

However, I will semi-regularly be towing a small (4' X 6') enclosed cargo trailer, weighing maybe 1100 lbs loaded, with maybe 500 lbs of cargo in the back of the Jeep at the same time. So I can TOTALLY see this engine lugging even in 4th at 55 mph if I should hit the slightest incline.

Also, having a trailer that I will be using weekly for about half of the year, it would be nice to have a reverse gear that does not force me to ride the clutch at anything less than 5 mph, which is rather faster than I would choose to back up to a trailer.

So I'm sure that regearing to 4.11 would be a big improvement for me, I've just been wondering if 4.56 would not be even better, for all the reasons given.

I agree with you that 4.56's would probably fit your needs better.

The nice thing is that if 4.56's ended up being a little too short for you, you could increase your tire size one or two sizes to bring you back into the sweet spot of your engine/trans.

 

[Chugiakguy]

I agree with you that 4.56's would probably fit your needs better.

The nice thing is that if 4.56's ended up being a little too short for you, you could increase your tire size one or two sizes to bring you back into the sweet spot of your engine/trans.

That is an excellent point that I had not even considered!

Given how tall 3rd and 4th gears are with 3.45, though, somehow I'm not overly worried about them being too short with 4.56. I would like to see one of those gearing vs. RPM charts again regarding that, though.

 

[18Celtics]

Hi all,

I am new to the forum. I have the 4.88 rear axle and I am just below 2500 rpm at 65 mph.

 

[Chugiakguy]

Hi all,

I am new to the forum. I have the 4.88 rear axle and I am just below 2500 rpm at 65 mph.

Hello, and welcome to the forum 18Celtics!
I am fairly new here myself.

Can we assume that you have a Rubicon, with 33' tires? Just trying to make a frame of reference for your observations with your 4.88 gearing.

 

[toothirtyj]

That is an excellent point that I had not even considered!

Given how tall 3rd and 4th gears are with 3.45, though, somehow I'm not overly worried about them being too short with 4.56. I would like to see one of those gearing vs. RPM charts again regarding that, though.

Knock yourself out with this gear calculator: http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html

Step 1: Aisin D478
Step 2: NP241/NV241/NVG241
Step 3: None
Step 4: run the numbers on whatever gear ratio you want: 3.45 ... 4.10 ... 4.56 ... etc...
Step 5: Stock Tires ( 255/75R17 )

I spent a long time with this calculator before I decided on 4.10's

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