392 Xtreme Recon ending?

[t.i.]

Cafe standards are all about average fuel economy across the model line. For the same reason they were able to produce the demon, they’ll be able to do whatever they want in limited production runs. Especially when they all have massive EV sales to offset those numbers. If the demand is high enough for V8’s and even supercharged V8’s there will always be limited production runs (with prices to match those limited numbers). Would I pay $100k+ for a wrangler to get it from the factory with a V8? Hell no. Are there enough people who would? Time will tell.

This!
some people are so naive.

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[Pfizer]

I love how everyone here blames the government and gives oil companies a free pass. Like oil companies are just innocent helpless bystanders being attacked by the government. Unbelievable!
Oil companies killed the muscle car era, in 1973. OPEC cut oil production because they were pissed about political actions of the west at the time. Bye bye muscle cars.
Now we had cheap gas again until the pandemic hit. Oil companies cut production because people weren’t traveling. Now that people are going out in droves again, the oil production hasn’t ramped up quick enough to meet the need. Thus $4.75 gas. Gas prices started climbing at the end of the last administration. No, Brandon did not do that.

So now the government makes it less palpable for car makers to produce gas guzzlers, until another oil friendly administration gets in. That goes in cycles. But even car makers can see what a catastrophe it would be for our environment if everyone drove V8’s.

Sorry for the rant, but Jeez. This stuff gets old.

100% agree with you!

 

[RAMSTEEL]

Our oil is too sweet for much of our refining infrastructure

and yet the record-profiting oil companies do nothing to change that?

 

[t.i.]

OR....US oil companies are taking full advantage of any crisis to make profits so high they are likely going to be hit with windfall taxes Take a look at their recently posted profits, Record sitting.

Pipelines - we already have one from Canada (BTW, it's used to export a lot of oil, why?) and the other one had a massive 1.2 miles built before shutting it down so we weren't going to see anything from that pipeline for many years. That pipeline was tied up in lawsuits (Indians, state, environmentalists, etc.) it wasn't happening anyways.

Lastly, guess who the number one produced of oil is? The US. Number one!!! and yet we still don't have enough?

The government (the US that is) does not set or regulate oil prices, but take a look at Russia and almost every other resource rich country....all controlled by the government and they know how to maximize the profit. Would you like the government to take over? We do not have the ability to shift production (fracking is hard) like other nations so they have much more flexibility to regulate production for pricing.

The fed is raising interest rates to slow spending. We're spending like crazy right now even with inflated prices. That's just insane.

Ahhh… I was going to spend/waste my time to respond to this. But deciding not to.
I just gonna go out and enjoy my jeep.

 

[Whaler27]

These new laws have nothing to do with the current gas prices. They where put in place before this crisis. The Government is forcing Auto makers to move towards more clean and greener engines with reduced emissions. Turbo engines and electric. Has to do with the environment this time. And the Government is not messing around. As soon as the laws where set in place within months Stellantis abruptly announced the demise of its Hellcat platform. Trust me Dodge does not want to move away from that platform. But they have no choice. Now all of a sudden in their performance campaign they want to pretend they are moving in a different direction because of performance. Yeah ok. Meanwhile the entire MOPAR fan base is losing their minds. Don't shoot the messenger I'm just stating the unfortunate truth.

We’ll see. I think Stella this has plenty of choices, and they’re pointing their development where they think the market will go. I also think high-power V8s will be built as long as there is sufficient demand to make them profitable. I expect the government to make them more expensive for sure, and I think that will shrink the market for them, but Japanese and Europeans pay crazy prices for our big American muscle cars…. And they just keep doing it.

 

[JeepViking13]

We’ll see. I think Stella this has plenty of choices, and they’re pointing their development where they think the market will go. I also think high-power V8s will be built as long as there is sufficient demand to make them profitable. I expect the government to make them more expensive for sure, and I think that will shrink the market for them, but Japanese and Europeans pay crazy prices for our big American muscle cars…. And they just keep doing it.

If they don't pass the strict emissions they won't be. Won't matter the Market. I promise you Dodge does not want to get rid of the Hellcat being that the Market is pretty stout for it. But they have too. The Hurricane Turbo V6 will be replacing that and a variation of it will be replacing the 392.

I also think the new Challenger variant V6 Turbo will be electric assisted. Most likely a power Hybrid. Also these engines will be a lot lighter then the old school V8s and make more power. There will be no reason to make gas guzzling V8s. Except for sound that's it. At that point the Auto makers will basically tell people shove your sound the Government is hitting our pockets too hard.

Look at the Jeeps 2.0T right now. With just a tune it makes the power of a small V8 and gets mid 20s mpgs. 20+ years ago who would have thought a 4 cylinder would be making the power of a V8? Not many. And the lighter front end is a huge advantage in performance and handling. People forget about that part.

 

[stumblinhorse]

The issue for folks is the “tune” crowd is a small percentage of people. I have had several of the world’s most tune-able engines on the planet the 5.9 liter I6 Cummins. None of them ever got ”tuned”. So buy a 392 and no tune required, no turbo to wear out. Most won’t do perf adds to the new tornado.

 

[oceanblue2019]

I love how everyone here blames the government and gives oil companies a free pass. Like oil companies are just innocent helpless bystanders being attacked by the government. Unbelievable!
Oil companies killed the muscle car era, in 1973. OPEC cut oil production because they were pissed about political actions of the west at the time. Bye bye muscle cars.
Now we had cheap gas again until the pandemic hit. Oil companies cut production because people weren’t traveling. Now that people are going out in droves again, the oil production hasn’t ramped up quick enough to meet the need. Thus $4.75 gas. Gas prices started climbing at the end of the last administration. No, Brandon did not do that.

So now the government makes it less palpable for car makers to produce gas guzzlers, until another oil friendly administration gets in. That goes in cycles. But even car makers can see what a catastrophe it would be for our environment if everyone drove V8’s.

Sorry for the rant, but Jeez. This stuff gets old.

The issue is the federal land drilling bans the current administration put in. This means much of the capacity pre-COVID is not allowed to be re-started.

 

[2nd 392]

I lived through this same mess in the 70's with new emission standards and the a-holes who embargoed oil. I saw Dodge Daytonas going for $3500, I saw Challengers with the 426 Hemi just sitting and rotting on dealer lots. Nobody wanted them at that point, but now automagically they're worth millions if in good shape.

We then entered the K-car and Honda Civic generation where everything was boring and still expensive.

The world started spinning again in 1989 when the Viper concept came out - and then was produced in reasonably large numbers. Low and behold, gas prices started coming down (I remember in the Bay Area seeing $1.25/gallon), and the horsepower wars were on again.

I guess my point is this - history does repeat itself. Now we have a big (asinine) push toward electric vehicles that are only going to strain our electric grid and make us more susceptible to cyber attacks on our infrastructure. Plenty of people will buy them, and the demand for oil will go down. That, in turn, will bring the price of gas down and people will be looking at that stupid electric car that's vulnerable to rapidly increasing $2.00/kWh electric costs and we'll pivot right back to where we want to be. Gas will be back to $2/gallon and those who have fun cars will rejoice.

My strategy - keep all my big displacement cars, buy as many more as I can, and have fun with them. Screw the EV world - they can go off and see for themselves what they're getting themselves into.

Yep- got my 1 of 500 (eng ser #HP360) 69 GTX for $2400, could have gotten a Cobra for $3995, a friend got a Z28 for about $1500 in late 73. A friend offered me the GTX because he just got married and couldn’t afford the 6mpg on min 100 octane gas car! Muscle cars worth 6&7 figures today for $2 to $4K!!!

 

[2nd 392]

The issue for folks is the “tune” crowd is a small percentage of people. I have had several of the world’s most tune-able engines on the planet the 5.9 liter I6 Cummins. None of them ever got ”tuned”. So buy a 392 and no tune required, no turbo to wear out. Most won’t do perf adds to the new tornado.

Plus- legal tunes are difficult in Ca and probably other CARB states so some tuners have lesser Ca tunes not worth bang for the buck and warranty loss!

 

[Hearhear]

The issue is the federal land drilling bans the current administration put in. This means much of the capacity pre-COVID is not allowed to be re-started.

No, this means the oil companies and refineries refuse to increase production fast enough to get prices down. That’s all it is. They can ramp up production if they wanted to. They don’t.

 

[JeepViking13]

The issue for folks is the “tune” crowd is a small percentage of people. I have had several of the world’s most tune-able engines on the planet the 5.9 liter I6 Cummins. None of them ever got ”tuned”. So buy a 392 and no tune required, no turbo to wear out. Most won’t do perf adds to the new tornado.

You are completely missing the point. This isn't a Turbo vs V8 debate. This is the Government is coming for the V8s and any other engine that doesn't meet the Cafe and emissions standards. This is about the environment this time around and not so much about oil and fuel prices like in the past. Most of the modern Turbo engines that have just come out in the past 5 years meet the standards. But there's even Turbo engines like Subarus EJ25 that was used in the WRX STI forever that's old as hell and that's toast too!! Gone. As a matter of fact Subaru just announced the STI will not be coming out this year because of it. And they are now working on a new engine and possibly looking to go electric in the next STI.

V8s and anything that doesn't meet the standards are 100% toast!!! It is what it is. Straight fact. All in saying if you can't get a V8 in the future just be happy that some of these modern Turbo engine make pretty good power especially when tuned. That's all. And let's face it we are not drag racing. Jeeps are an off road vehicle.

 

[oceanblue2019]

No, this means the oil companies and refineries refuse to increase production fast enough to get prices down. That’s all it is. They can ramp up production if they wanted to. They don’t.

Completely wrong.

1) Every well in production is decreasing in volume output daily. This doesn't mean it's drying up overnight as it could be decades of production or far shorter - but it is in decline from day-1. The more wells into the same reserve the faster the decline.

2) Not every well drilled is viable and produces oil.

So for an oil company to have "steady state" production they always have to be starting new wells to make up for this depletion of capacity.

And for an oil company to expand production it means a lot more exploration to get more wells up and producing.

So when the government stopped allowing wells on public land and slowed down permitting for exploration of new wells it makes it tougher to keep that capacity up; and much tougher to increase it.

The net results is a decrease of volume produced. As time goes on that decline compounds.

This is why oil is a nasty business - it is a never ending exploration, drill, produce, and reclamation story.

 

[2nd 392]

Y

You are completely missing the point. This isn't a Turbo vs V8 debate. This is the Government is coming for the V8s and any other engine that doesn't meet the Cafe and emissions standards. This is about the environment this time around and not so much about oil and fuel prices like in the past. Most of the modern Turbo engines that have just come out in the past 5 years meet the standards. But there's even Turbo engines like Subarus EJ25 that was used in the WRX STI forever that's old as hell and that's toast too!! Gone. As a matter of fact Subaru just announced the STI will not be coming out this year because of it. And they are now working on a new engine and possibly looking to go electric in the next STI.

V8s and anything that doesn't meet the standards are 100% toast!!! It is what it is. Straight fact. All in saying if you can't get a V8 in the future just be happy that some of these modern Turbo engine make pretty good power especially when tuned. That's all. And let's face it we are not drag racing. Jeeps are an off road vehicle.

Yep- 1970 Corvette/Chevelle 450Hp (under rated) 73-200Hp.similar numbers for all, Regulations!!! Increasing mpg numbers already scheduled. V8’s are definitely “on borrowed time “!!

 

[stumblinhorse]

@JeepViking13 I am def not disagreeing about the V8s being toast. They are toast, rye, sourdough, pumpernickel, buttered toast. I am just saying that turbo i6 land is not as happy as V8 land. Rock candy mountain V8 land. Where my 392 is not an engine in it’s 1st run. It was first introduced in 2010…. Give me a final run engine over a first run any day!

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