392 Xtreme Recon ending?

[t.i.]

These new laws have nothing to do with the current gas prices. They where put in place before this crisis. The Government is forcing Auto makers to move towards more clean and greener engines with reduced emissions. Turbo engines and electric. Has to do with the environment this time. And the Government is not messing around. As soon as the laws where set in place within months Stellantis abruptly announced the demise of its Hellcat platform. Trust me Dodge does not want to move away from that platform. But they have no choice. Now all of a sudden in their performance campaign they want to pretend they are moving in a different direction because of performance. Yeah ok. Meanwhile the entire MOPAR fan base is losing their minds. Don't shoot the messenger I'm just stating the unfortunate truth.

Actually the laws have to do quiet a bit with the gas prices. Its called changing customer behavior thru pricing. Artificially making the prices of a commodity higher so people start looking for alternatives. Then you throw in financial incentives, where you want them to go, e.g. EVs.

Cancelling leases on federal lands, cancelling pipelines, imposing additional financial burden on drilling has led to the prices.

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[JeepViking13]

Actually the laws have to do quiet a bit with the gas prices. Its called changing customer behavior thru pricing. Artificially making the prices of a commodity higher so people start looking for alternatives. Then you throw in financial incentives, where you want them to go, e.g. EVs.

Cancelling leases on federal lands, cancelling pipelines, imposing additional financial burden on drilling has led to the prices.

Oh know that's what the Government is doing right now. My point was they made these laws because of the environment before hand. All you did was name the tactics that they are now employing to force everyone in that direction. If they are going through all that trouble Imagine how much pressure and fines they are bringing down on the Auto makers. Trust me the V8s are toast.

You need to understand Auto makers are in the business of making a profit. If the Government is fining them for engines that don't meet there environmental standards and they are losing money they will stop making them. And that's exactly what's happening. It's that simple.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Oh know that's what the Government is doing right now. My point was they made these laws because of the environment before hand. All you did was name the tactics that they are now employing to force everyone in that direction. If they are going through all that trouble Imagine how much pressure and fines they are bringing down on the Auto makers. Trust me the V8s are toast.

You need to understand Auto makers are in the business of making a profit. If the Government is fining them for engines that don't meet there environmental standards and they are losing money they will stop making them. And that's exactly what's happening. It's that simple.

Cafe standards are all about average fuel economy across the model line. For the same reason they were able to produce the demon, they’ll be able to do whatever they want in limited production runs. Especially when they all have massive EV sales to offset those numbers. If the demand is high enough for V8’s and even supercharged V8’s there will always be limited production runs (with prices to match those limited numbers). Would I pay $100k+ for a wrangler to get it from the factory with a V8? Hell no. Are there enough people who would? Time will tell.

 

[JeepViking13]

Cafe standards are all about average fuel economy across the model line. For the same reason they were able to produce the demon, they’ll be able to do whatever they want in limited production runs. Especially when they all have massive EV sales to offset those numbers. If the demand is high enough for V8’s and even supercharged V8’s there will always be limited production runs (with prices to match those limited numbers). Would I pay $100k+ for a wrangler to get it from the factory with a V8? Hell no. Are there enough people who would? Time will tell.

I dont know. Government really is coming down hard. Time will definitely tell but the fact that they are forced to dump the Hellcat engine is pretty telling. That was there bread and butter.

And like you said if they end up being still allowed to make them in small limited runs there's no way the price will be worth paying with all the fines piled on. The V8 Wrangler now is already priced insane for what it is. I can't imagine it being even more.

 

[JeepViking13]

with the bronco raptor coming out no way fca discontinuing the 392. No way

Wrangler is coming out with a new Turbo in line 6 apparently. Most likely what they are replacing the 392 with. Well see. Should be interesting.

 

[Rubi64L]

I lived through this same mess in the 70's with new emission standards and the a-holes who embargoed oil. I saw Dodge Daytonas going for $3500, I saw Challengers with the 426 Hemi just sitting and rotting on dealer lots. Nobody wanted them at that point, but now automagically they're worth millions if in good shape.

We then entered the K-car and Honda Civic generation where everything was boring and still expensive.

The world started spinning again in 1989 when the Viper concept came out - and then was produced in reasonably large numbers. Low and behold, gas prices started coming down (I remember in the Bay Area seeing $1.25/gallon), and the horsepower wars were on again.

I guess my point is this - history does repeat itself. Now we have a big (asinine) push toward electric vehicles that are only going to strain our electric grid and make us more susceptible to cyber attacks on our infrastructure. Plenty of people will buy them, and the demand for oil will go down. That, in turn, will bring the price of gas down and people will be looking at that stupid electric car that's vulnerable to rapidly increasing $2.00/kWh electric costs and we'll pivot right back to where we want to be. Gas will be back to $2/gallon and those who have fun cars will rejoice.

My strategy - keep all my big displacement cars, buy as many more as I can, and have fun with them. Screw the EV world - they can go off and see for themselves what they're getting themselves into.

 

[Zandcwhite]

I lived through this same mess in the 70's with new emission standards and the a-holes who embargoed oil. I saw Dodge Daytonas going for $3500, I saw Challengers with the 426 Hemi just sitting and rotting on dealer lots. Nobody wanted them at that point, but now automagically they're worth millions if in good shape.

We then entered the K-car and Honda Civic generation where everything was boring and still expensive.

The world started spinning again in 1989 when the Viper concept came out - and then was produced in reasonably large numbers. Low and behold, gas prices started coming down (I remember in the Bay Area seeing $1.25/gallon), and the horsepower wars were on again.

I guess my point is this - history does repeat itself. Now we have a big (asinine) push toward electric vehicles that are only going to strain our electric grid and make us more susceptible to cyber attacks on our infrastructure. Plenty of people will buy them, and the demand for oil will go down. That, in turn, will bring the price of gas down and people will be looking at that stupid electric car that's vulnerable to rapidly increasing $2.00/kWh electric costs and we'll pivot right back to where we want to be. Gas will be back to $2/gallon and those who have fun cars will rejoice.

My strategy - keep all my big displacement cars, buy as many more as I can, and have fun with them. Screw the EV world - they can go off and see for themselves what they're getting themselves into.

The horsepower wars are in full swing, the quickest production cars ever made are available right now...but scary electrons.

 

[Rubi64L]

The horsepower wars are in full swing, the quickest production cars ever made are available right now...but scary electrons.

I have to agree that electric cars have instant power - torque is what wins races. But, I know a bunch of people here in the Bay Area that are going through hell with their EV cars once they start to crap out. While they're under warranty, they're great - although a pain because some simple parts require the whole car to be taken apart. Then, when they're out of warranty, they're basically junk - those batteries last at most 10 years, and then it's a massive undertaking to replace them. Sure, they perform awesome when new, but I have cars from the 70's that still perform awesome today and I can work on them myself. That's just not going to happen with the EV generation.

 

[mllcb42]

with the bronco raptor coming out no way fca discontinuing the 392

If I were a betting man and was reading the tea leaves of the xr package being done on the 392 and the upcoming tornado i6 release, I'd guess that we are going to see a replacement for the 392 using a twin turbo version of the tornado i6 and a 37" tire package option aimed squarely at the bronco raptor.

 

[Rubi64L]

If I were a betting man and was reading the tea leaves of the xr package being done on the 392 and the upcoming tornado i6 release, I'd guess that we are going to see a replacement for the 392 using a twin turbo version of the tornado i6 and a 37" tire package option aimed squarely at the bronco raptor.

Well, that would be a square bet for 2024. But, in 2023, there are still enough die-hard SRT leftovers to cook up something with a (possible) Hellcat engine in the Rubicon that will leave its mark on history. Just look at the 2017 Viper ACR-Extreme. They're now going for 2x to 3x MSRP after being run on the track for a few thousand miles. SRT really outdid themselves on that one, and I'm fortunate enough to own one (although I'm afraid to drive it these days - it's like driving a house that wants to kill you at every turn).

 

[RAMSTEEL]

Cancelling leases on federal lands, cancelling pipelines, imposing additional financial burden on drilling has led to the prices.

OR....US oil companies are taking full advantage of any crisis to make profits so high they are likely going to be hit with windfall taxes Take a look at their recently posted profits, Record sitting.

Pipelines - we already have one from Canada (BTW, it's used to export a lot of oil, why?) and the other one had a massive 1.2 miles built before shutting it down so we weren't going to see anything from that pipeline for many years. That pipeline was tied up in lawsuits (Indians, state, environmentalists, etc.) it wasn't happening anyways.

Lastly, guess who the number one produced of oil is? The US. Number one!!! and yet we still don't have enough?

The government (the US that is) does not set or regulate oil prices, but take a look at Russia and almost every other resource rich country....all controlled by the government and they know how to maximize the profit. Would you like the government to take over? We do not have the ability to shift production (fracking is hard) like other nations so they have much more flexibility to regulate production for pricing.

The fed is raising interest rates to slow spending. We're spending like crazy right now even with inflated prices. That's just insane.

 

[JeepViking13]

If I were a betting man and was reading the tea leaves of the xr package being done on the 392 and the upcoming tornado i6 release, I'd guess that we are going to see a replacement for the 392 using a twin turbo version of the tornado i6 and a 37" tire package option aimed squarely at the bronco raptor.

I agree 100%

 

[mllcb42]

Lastly, guess who the number one produced of oil is? The US. Number one!!! and yet we still don't have enough?

Our oil is too sweet for much of our refining infrastructure

 

[Hearhear]

I love how everyone here blames the government and gives oil companies a free pass. Like oil companies are just innocent helpless bystanders being attacked by the government. Unbelievable!
Oil companies killed the muscle car era, in 1973. OPEC cut oil production because they were pissed about political actions of the west at the time. Bye bye muscle cars.
Now we had cheap gas again until the pandemic hit. Oil companies cut production because people weren’t traveling. Now that people are going out in droves again, the oil production hasn’t ramped up quick enough to meet the need. Thus $4.75 gas. Gas prices started climbing at the end of the last administration. No, Brandon did not do that.

So now the government makes it less palpable for car makers to produce gas guzzlers, until another oil friendly administration gets in. That goes in cycles. But even car makers can see what a catastrophe it would be for our environment if everyone drove V8’s.

Sorry for the rant, but Jeez. This stuff gets old.

 

[Rubi64L]

I agree 100%

Well, here's what I prognosticate for the future. Turbo inline 6 sounds like muffled crap (although I still lust after the sound of the old free flowing BMW I6 engines). V8 will always have a place in enthusiasts hearts. The V10 (like in the Viper) only appeals to those who are die-hard Viper fans. V12 sounds fantastic and will be at the top of the heap when Mecum and Hagerty auctions happen in 2030. But, the ultimate winner will be the cars that people can actually maintain without having to go to a shop to do something irritatingly simple like replace an air conditioner solenoid. I don't see any EV or super efficient cars falling into favor anytime soon.

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