2024 4xe is disappointing... gets no range increase

[JeepViking13]

I'm not the one complaining about "too pricey" but you do you.

Well for what it really is I just got sticker shock looking at one in person yesterday. Sorry not worth no $70k. I'd buy it for $40k. Stellantis is off their rocker.

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[PatriotX]

I'm glad you got a great deal on your cheaper, slower, less-powerful Bronco.

Now read up on Strawman arguments. You're already mostly there.

If only there was a forum, somewhere else, to discuss and celebrate broncos...

 

[Getmadboy]

So if you have it in full electric mode and it says the power is down to 0 and the engine kicks on there's still more life and it runs in hybrid mode? I thought I heard in reviews it kicks into just straight engine mode if you let the battery totally die when not running in hybrids mode.

I was actually eyeing possibly a 2024 Willys 4xe. That was when I thought they get 49 mpg/e in hybrid mode. But they only get mid 20s. ? The full electric mode would be nice if it got more real world range. But I live 20 miles from everything in every direction. And from what I read it doesn't get good range in cold weather. It would be useless for my scenario.

The 4xe battery is never depleted fully. Even a battery showing <1%, there’s still 15% charge in the background being used like how a prius would be using it. So the battery is never completely “dead weight”, although the majority of the wrangler community will try to have you believe otherwise.

MPGe is definitely misleading in that it shares most of the same acronym as MPG, but the numbers represent different things. Our brains Are wired to recognize MPG as how many miles we can get from a gallon of gas, whereas MPGe is just representing the efficiency rating of how many miles could be driven with a “gallon of gas equivalent”. According to the EPA, a gallon of gas produces 33.7 kWh of energy. So the Wrangler 4xe having a 49 MPGe rating is saying that IF it had a battery pack with a capacity of 33.7 kWh that was able to be fully depleted, it should be able to drive 49 miles on all electricity. Since the Wrangler 4xe has a battery pack of 17 kWh (approximately 50% of that 33.7 kWh), it should be able to go approximately 50% of 49 miles, or right around 25 miles on all electric IF the battery was able to be fully depleted. But we now know that the battery is NEVER fully depleted and retains ~15% charge at all times (even if the battery indicator shows <1%) which is why most people report getting about 21 miles of range in all electric mode (25 miles x 85% = 21 miles).

 

[JeepViking13]

I'm glad you got a great deal on your cheaper, slower, less-powerful Bronco.

Now read up on Strawman arguments. You're already mostly there.

If only there was a forum, somewhere else, to discuss and celebrate broncos...

This wasn't about the Bronco. It wasn't even supposed to turn into that. I own a Jeep too. 2022 Willys XR.

This is about the 4xe and how frigging expensive it for what you really get. Or don't get i should say. So keep trying avert attention to the Bronco and away from the 4xe. Lol.

Oh and when your ready to throw 35s on your 4xe and meet up let me know. ?

 

[JeepViking13]

The 4xe battery is never depleted fully. Even a battery showing <1%, there’s still 15% charge in the background being used like how a prius would be using it. So the battery is never completely “dead weight”, although the majority of the wrangler community will try to have you believe otherwise.

MPGe is definitely misleading in that it shares most of the same acronym as MPG, but the numbers represent different things. Our brains Are wired to recognize MPG as how many miles we can get from a gallon of gas, whereas MPGe is just representing the efficiency rating of how many miles could be driven with a “gallon of gas equivalent”. According to the EPA, a gallon of gas produces 33.7 kWh of energy. So the Wrangler 4xe having a 49 MPGe rating is saying that IF it had a battery pack with a capacity of 33.7 kWh that was able to be fully depleted, it should be able to drive 49 miles on all electricity. Since the Wrangler 4xe has a battery pack of 17 kWh (approximately 50% of that 33.7 kWh), it should be able to go approximately 50% of 49 miles, or right around 25 miles on all electric IF the battery was able to be fully depleted. But we now know that the battery is NEVER fully depleted and retains ~15% charge at all times (even if the battery indicator shows <1%) which is why most people report getting about 21 miles of range in all electric mode (25 miles x 85% = 21 miles).

Thanks for the explanation. Unfortunately Jeep will never use a 33kWh battery because of adding even more weight to the Wrangler and taking up ground clearance. Which is probably why they came out with the new Jeep Recon. It's designed to fit bigger batteries.

Assuming the conditions are perfect to get that 25 miles. Straight smooth paved road and perfect weather outside. Don't go up hills, don't use your heat when it's cold or A/C if it's hot outside, radio, heated seats and whatever els draws from the power. You'll end up getting much less. And let's not forget about battery age. After a couple years it starts degrading. Then the miles start dropping off dramatically.

Believe me I would love this to be the perfect system. Get at least 50 miles full electric mode, get 49mpg hybrid mode like all the other hybrids do, and the battery last forever. But unfortunately it's not the case. And then Stellantis wants you to pay out the ass for it.

 

[BXFXJeep]

Thanks for the explanation. Unfortunately Jeep will never use a 33kWh battery because of adding even more weight to the Wrangler and taking up ground clearance. Which is probably why they came out with the new Jeep Recon. It's designed to fit bigger batteries.

Assuming the conditions are perfect to get that 25 miles. Straight smooth paved road and perfect weather outside. Don't go up hills, don't use your heat when it's cold or A/C if it's hot outside, radio, heated seats and whatever els draws from the power. You'll end up getting much less. And let's not forget about battery age. After a couple years it starts degrading. Then the miles start dropping off dramatically.

Believe me I would love this to be the perfect system. Get at least 50 miles full electric mode, get 49mpg hybrid mode like all the other hybrids do, and the battery last forever. But unfortunately it's not the case. And then Stellantis wants you to pay out the ass for it.

You really need to understand the purpose of a PHEV, when you understand that, then decide if it's for you, if not, just move on.

Everyone keep saying oh just a little more range would be good, next thing you know the spare tire is replaced with a battery.

Like someone said, the 4xe/PHEV is not for everyone, your friendly government would like everyone to think an EV is suitable for everyone, such is not the case.

In a nutshell a PHEV is for city slickers and suburbanites that do mostly low mileage short trips.

Me for instance I have always had a Wrangler, for the last 2 decades the vast majority of my driving is urban city core driving, I got 15mpg on a good day, and there weren't many good days, I didn't care, I filled up gas every week or less sometimes, so minimum $400 a month in gas, about $4,000usd a year, this is merely just joy riding for the most part.

Now a long comes the 4xe, same driving as before, but almost no gas is being used. If I paid to charge the 4xe it would cost me $700usd a year, so $700 vs $4,000.

toss in a couple of tanks of gas let's say $1,000 vs $4,000.

It is also very simple to know if a PHEV is for you, do you mostly drive less than the range of the PHEV, No. then move along.


Comparing an ICE with a PHEV is idiotic, they look the same, they ain't, they are very different.

 

[Getmadboy]

Thanks for the explanation. Unfortunately Jeep will never use a 33kWh battery because of adding even more weight to the Wrangler and taking up ground clearance. Which is probably why they came out with the new Jeep Recon. It's designed to fit bigger batteries.

Assuming the conditions are perfect to get that 25 miles. Straight smooth paved road and perfect weather outside. Don't go up hills, don't use your heat when it's cold or A/C if it's hot outside, radio, heated seats and whatever els draws from the power. You'll end up getting much less. And let's not forget about battery age. After a couple years it starts degrading. Then the miles start dropping off dramatically.

Believe me I would love this to be the perfect system. Get at least 50 miles full electric mode, get 49mpg hybrid mode like all the other hybrids do, and the battery last forever. But unfortunately it's not the case. And then Stellantis wants you to pay out the ass for it.

I wasn’t saying Jeep should add that big of a battery to the Wrangler, I only mentioned the 33.7 kWh to explain the math since it didn’t sound like you understood what MPGe was. Agreed that the Recon is likely the result of Jeep wanting to offer a true EV, but still retain the image of something more rugged than most other vehicles on the road.

Your statement about “perfect conditions” isn’t wrong, but that’s not just an EV or PHEV issue. Any ICE vehicle suffers the same way when driving up and down hills, using heat, using A/C, etc.

Oh and engine age and become less efficient over time too.

I understand that the 4xe doesn’t appeal to or work for you, but it works for others, including me. I wanted a Wrangler that could get decent gas mileage on a daily driving basis, but could still go off grid and tackle the same trails any other Wrangler could. I use my 4xe 90%+ of the time in the city and able to charge on a nightly basis, so I’m able to take advantage of electric only driving. Again, I understand that not everyone has the opportunity to use their 4xe this way, but it works perfectly for me.

 

[JeepViking13]

You really need to understand the purpose of a PHEV, when you understand that, then decide if it's for you, if not, just move on.

Everyone keep saying oh just a little more range would be good, next thing you know the spare tire is replaced with a battery.

Like someone said, the 4xe/PHEV is not for everyone, your friendly government would like everyone to think an EV is suitable for everyone, such is not the case.

In a nutshell a PHEV is for city slickers and suburbanites that do mostly low mileage short trips.

Me for instance I have always had a Wrangler, for the last 2 decades the vast majority of my driving is urban city core driving, I got 15mpg on a good day, and there weren't many good days, I didn't care, I filled up gas every week or less sometimes, so minimum $400 a month in gas, about $4,000usd a year, this is merely just joy riding for the most part.

Now a long comes the 4xe, same driving as before, but almost no gas is being used. If I paid to charge the 4xe it would cost me $700usd a year, so $700 vs $4,000.

toss in a couple of tanks of gas let's say $1,000 vs $4,000.

It is also very simple to know if a PHEV is for you, do you mostly drive less than the range of the PHEV, No. then move along.


Comparing an ICE with a PHEV is idiotic, they look the same, they ain't, they are very different.

I'm totally understanding PHEV. And I actually like the idea. My big issue isn't with PHEV technology. It's with Jeep/Stellantis. There price for what they want for this and the 4xe's performance just don't match up. And like you said you literally have to be a city slicker to take advantage of the 4xe because it's performance is so bad. Other PHEVs get more electric miles. If you live in a cold area you get even less electric miles down from 21. So if you live in a big city are you really able to run all day on all electric? Especially if it's a big city that has lots of traffic like Los Angeles or something. No way you are able to take full advantage of just running around on full electric in a city like that. Maybe it's more of a small city/town PHEV which would be beneficial for only that particular sub set of people that don't really have to travel far and are lucky enough to have a job right down the street or are retired.

 

[Zandcwhite]

I'm totally understanding PHEV. And I actually like the idea. My big issue isn't with PHEV technology. It's with Jeep/Stellantis. There price for what they want for this and the 4xe's performance just don't match up. And like you said you literally have to be a city slicker to take advantage of the 4xe because it's performance is so bad. Other PHEVs get more electric miles. If you live in a cold area you get even less electric miles down from 21. So if you live in a big city are you really able to run all day on all electric? Especially if it's a big city that has lots of traffic like Los Angeles or something. No way you are able to take full advantage of just running around on full electric in a city like that. Maybe it's more of a small city/town PHEV which would be beneficial for only that particular sub set of people that don't really have to travel far and are lucky enough to have a job right down the street or are retired.

A loaded wild track bronco is the more expensive after the $7500 tax credit. A heritage bronco starts at $70k. Neither of those has 470ftlbs of torque or any electric range. Our loaded 2022 rubicon XR was the same price as the 4xe without a hybrid system. Vehicle prices across the board have skyrocketed in the last few years (like everything else). It’s not a Stellantis thing, it’s industry wide. A 4xe would have worked for us, as the wife daily drives the Jeep to work. 17 miles each way and she could charge it for free at work. 0 gas all week long. We don’t live in a major city and her commute is country roads, but cold isn’t an issue here in CA. We do a lot of long road trips and some pretty tough trails so we opted for the simplicity and weight savings of the pentastar this time.

 

[BXFXJeep]

I'm totally understanding PHEV. And I actually like the idea. My big issue isn't with PHEV technology. It's with Jeep/Stellantis. There price for what they want for this and the 4xe's performance just don't match up. And like you said you literally have to be a city slicker to take advantage of the 4xe because it's performance is so bad. Other PHEVs get more electric miles. If you live in a cold area you get even less electric miles down from 21. So if you live in a big city are you really able to run all day on all electric? Especially if it's a big city that has lots of traffic like Los Angeles or something. No way you are able to take full advantage of just running around on full electric in a city like that. Maybe it's more of a small city/town PHEV which would be beneficial for only that particular sub set of people that don't really have to travel far and are lucky enough to have a job right down the street or are retired.

Other ICE get better MPG than a Wrangler, a PHEV badge on a Wrangler doesn't magically make it any more efficient at using energy for propulsion gas or electricity or diesel.

The Pacifica get 32 miles on a similar size battery as the Wrangler, I'll leave it for you to figure out why that is.

List of PHEVs available in the US.

Here is a list of the low range PHEVs, I've also added the link, you can compare the other vehicles to the the Wrangler and figure out why some are more efficient with the battery, resulting in better range.

Compare price, range, fun factor etc and let me know which is a "better" PHEV than the Wrangler.

I personally think the rest within the price range are ? compared to the Wrangler 4xe.

https://evadoption.com/ev-models/available-phevs/

 

[JeepViking13]

A loaded wild track bronco is the more expensive after the $7500 tax credit. A heritage bronco starts at $70k. Neither of those has 470ftlbs of torque or any electric range. Our loaded 2022 rubicon XR was the same price as the 4xe without a hybrid system. Vehicle prices across the board have skyrocketed in the last few years (like everything else). It’s not a Stellantis thing, it’s industry wide. A 4xe would have worked for us, as the wife daily drives the Jeep to work. 17 miles each way and she could charge it for free at work. 0 gas all week long. We don’t live in a major city and her commute is country roads, but cold isn’t an issue here in CA. We do a lot of long road trips and some pretty tough trails so we opted for the simplicity and weight savings of the pentastar this time.

A Heritage Bronco actually starts at $47k for the 4 door. Your looking at the special edition model. Wildtrak $58k.

Also for an off road vehicle 415tq to 470tq isn't earth shattering to me. Especially when you consider theirs a Ford factory tune available for the Bronco for like $500 bucks that increases the power to the same level. And it counts because it's covered under warranty and made by the company.

Not that any of that matters. In the end I'm not paying no $70k for a Bronco or Wrangler. Lol.

 

[Zandcwhite]

A Heritage Bronco actually starts at $47k for the 4 door. Your looking at the special edition model. Wildtrak $58k.

Also for an off road vehicle 415tq to 470tq isn't earth shattering to me. Especially when you consider theirs a Ford factory tune available for the Bronco for like $500 bucks that increases the power to the same level. And it counts because it's covered under warranty and made by the company.

Not that any of that matters. In the end I'm not paying no $70k for a Bronco or Wrangler. Lol.

The 4xe starts at $54k...minus the $7500 tax credit it's $10k cheaper than a wild track base. That was my point. The $70k model you were looking at was loaded. Even the loaded wild track only gets leather trimmed vinyl seats. The prices are nearly the same, and you're ignoring the fact that one is a phev and the other is ice only. You won't find another off road capable phev period, they could easily bump the price due to their current monopoly and they don't. Even a loaded 4 runner is pushing $70k now, again no hybrid at all and an ancient powertrain to boot. It is what it is.

 

[JeepViking13]

The 4xe starts at $54k...minus the $7500 tax credit it's $10k cheaper than a wild track base. That was my point. The $70k model you were looking at was loaded. Even the loaded wild track only gets leather trimmed vinyl seats. The prices are nearly the same, and you're ignoring the fact that one is a phev and the other is ice only. You won't find another off road capable phev period, they could easily bump the price due to their current monopoly and they don't. Even a loaded 4 runner is pushing $70k now, again no hybrid at all and an ancient powertrain to boot. It is what it is.

Your not wrong. Everything is out of control price wise. The scary part is everything is going up in price at the same time the US dollar is under attack. Things cost more and your money is worth less. Scary times.

But I wouldn't say they could have bumped the price and they didn't. Stellantis bumped their prices by ALOT on everything in the past couple years.

I just wish the 4xe got better all electric performance. And I wish it got better hybrid numbers. I guess is it what it is. Everything can't be perfect. But it would make more sense for my needs if it did.

I'm really interested in what the 2024 prices will look like. Plus Jeep is coming out with a Sport S 4xe. Hopefully the price is much less. I'm interested to see what they are going to price the Willys at for 2024 as well. 4xe and non 4xe variant.

 

[PatriotX]

https://jalopnik.com/the-only-plug-...tter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2023-04-14

I don't think sales figures indicate disappointment.

I would be very disappointed if the 4xe was a slow as a bronco.

 

[JeepViking13]

https://jalopnik.com/the-only-plug-...tter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2023-04-14

I don't think sales figures indicate disappointment.

I would be very disappointed if the 4xe was a slow as a bronco.

Throw 35s on it and let's find out. You may be be disappointed if that's what really matters to you.

Can you imagine we meet up and my Bronco beats your 4xe on 35s? You'll be so disappointed You'll end up selling your rig. ?

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