Manual Transmission - Issues shifting into 1st & Reverse (Compilation thread)

[Jeremynolan94]

Pulled the trigger on CFII with hydraulic throw-out. Found a shop owner/tech (one man operation) nearby that does a lot of Centerforce installs. He’s familiar with the JL.

Fingers crossed. I hate banking on a mechanic I’ve never used, but my guy retired. I did meet him in person and had a long conversation. He seems knowledgeable, and his reviews are stellar. He was finishing putting a CF in a Mustang when I arrived. Has one in his personal Challenger. Found him via another popular (big) shop who very honestly said, “Go see Todd down the road. We send him all of our transmission and engine swap work.”

I just can’t see paying to have transmission dropped, input shaft cleaned, maybe replacing plastic throw-out, and then just hoping the ACT would be normal for another two years before doing it all again. Not much more labor cost to put in a better solution.

Breaking point was on Monday. Started Jeep in garage while it was in reverse. I’ve done that every day for 7 years. This time it lurched and started moving with the pedal buried in the floor. Clutch no longer disengaging fully. Did a vacuum bleed and it was better the next day, but I’m over it.

I’ll report back with results in a couple of weeks.

I'm interested to hear how your change to the Centerforce goes. I had my ACT reinstalled in July to have the input spline cleaned of the incorrect grease that was causing my shifting issues. It shifted great for about a month, but I still had the same minor creeping when going into first or reverse and clutch pushed in so it clearly wasn't fully disengaged. Shifting has gradually started to feel worse again, and the clutch now has an awful "moaning" sound and pedal feel when the car is cold, not quite the Chewbacca groan that some people have been getting. I tried a vacuum bleed from both the master and slave cylinders but haven't had any changes. I haven't noticed any leaking along the hydraulic lines so I'm not sure where air would be getting in.

I finally caved and have scheduled the recall for this Monday. I can't justify spending money on a different aftermarket clutch and installation when the recall is free. I'm a little wary of the software update, but my plan is to reset everything on my Jscan before the recall and then change back my gearing and tire size once the new clutch and software are installed. I've heard that helps folks avoid the limp mode issue. I'll also ask them to go over the hydraulics and look for any leaking or possible source for air to get in the lines.

Unfortunately the ACT just didn't work for me. I hope it works for other people but it has been nothing but a headache and I'm genuinely looking forward to having a clutch that doesn't act up every day.

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[SadRobot]

I'm interested to hear how your change to the Centerforce goes. I had my ACT reinstalled in July to have the input spline cleaned of the incorrect grease that was causing my shifting issues. It shifted great for about a month, but I still had the same minor creeping when going into first or reverse and clutch pushed in so it clearly wasn't fully disengaged. Shifting has gradually started to feel worse again, and the clutch now has an awful "moaning" sound and pedal feel when the car is cold, not quite the Chewbacca groan that some people have been getting. I tried a vacuum bleed from both the master and slave cylinders but haven't had any changes. I haven't noticed any leaking along the hydraulic lines so I'm not sure where air would be getting in.

I finally caved and have scheduled the recall for this Monday. I can't justify spending money on a different aftermarket clutch and installation when the recall is free. I'm a little wary of the software update, but my plan is to reset everything on my Jscan before the recall and then change back my gearing and tire size once the new clutch and software are installed. I've heard that helps folks avoid the limp mode issue. I'll also ask them to go over the hydraulics and look for any leaking or possible source for air to get in the lines.

Unfortunately the ACT just didn't work for me. I hope it works for other people but it has been nothing but a headache and I'm genuinely looking forward to having a clutch that doesn't act up every day.

Crossing my fingers for you it all goes well.

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

I'm interested to hear how your change to the Centerforce goes. I had my ACT reinstalled in July to have the input spline cleaned of the incorrect grease that was causing my shifting issues. It shifted great for about a month, but I still had the same minor creeping when going into first or reverse and clutch pushed in so it clearly wasn't fully disengaged. Shifting has gradually started to feel worse again, and the clutch now has an awful "moaning" sound and pedal feel when the car is cold, not quite the Chewbacca groan that some people have been getting. I tried a vacuum bleed from both the master and slave cylinders but haven't had any changes. I haven't noticed any leaking along the hydraulic lines so I'm not sure where air would be getting in.

I finally caved and have scheduled the recall for this Monday. I can't justify spending money on a different aftermarket clutch and installation when the recall is free. I'm a little wary of the software update, but my plan is to reset everything on my Jscan before the recall and then change back my gearing and tire size once the new clutch and software are installed. I've heard that helps folks avoid the limp mode issue. I'll also ask them to go over the hydraulics and look for any leaking or possible source for air to get in the lines.

Unfortunately the ACT just didn't work for me. I hope it works for other people but it has been nothing but a headache and I'm genuinely looking forward to having a clutch that doesn't act up every day.

I nearly caved, too. Then I started remembering how awful stock was, comparatively speaking, at crawl speed and reverse; i.e. in stop and go traffic, navigating tall speed bumps, reversing up my driveway, etc. I mastered it and never stalled, but everyone else who drove it would.

And I keep reading about people getting thrown into limp mode for no reason. I just can’t.

Yeah, between two aftermarket clutch installs I’m out a lot of money, but I plan to drive this Jeep until one of us dies.

Do let us know how the recall goes, and how the replacement feels compared to when you were stock.

 

[Jeremynolan94]

I nearly caved, too. Then I started remembering how awful stock was, comparatively speaking, at crawl speed and reverse; i.e. in stop and go traffic, navigating tall speed bumps, reversing up my driveway, etc. I mastered it and never stalled, but everyone else who drove it would.

And I keep reading about people getting thrown into limp mode for no reason. I just can’t.

Yeah, between two aftermarket clutch installs I’m out a lot of money, but I plan to drive this Jeep until one of us dies.

Do let us know how the recall goes, and how the replacement feels compared to when you were stock.

Will do. I'm cautiously optimistic that it will feel better than before just because I've since regeared to 4.56. Before with 3.45 gears and 33s I always felt I had to ride the clutch, particularly if backing up on a hill. I'll miss the inertia of the ACT but I sure won't miss the issues I've had.

 

[BHank0688]

I feel like I’m going to be the last one with an act clutch before too long lol. Good luck all. Keep us posted with hopefully all success stories.

 

[bjm00se]

ACTMan won a lot of friends on here with his early transparency about how the new JL clutch was engineered and with his investigation into what the potential troubs might be with the factory clutch. For instance: disproving the internet theory that perhaps the factory had cheaped out and used cast instead of billet.

Then walked us through the process of how ACT adapted their basic JK clutch design, which has worked well for years, to the JL.

But I'm stuck with one particular post, where one poster took his shiny new ACT clutch to an old-skool installer. The installer eyeballed the new clutch, and the JL hydraulics, and said something like "those hydraulics ain't gonna hold up to a clutch that stiff."

The JK had a slightly larger master and slave than the JL does.

The failures folks are getting seem to me to be consistent with that guy's snap observation. Slightly under-specced hydraulics not failing dramatically, but gradually weeping air into the system over time, causing degraded performance.

That's my hypothesis and I'm sticking to it until new data comes along to disprove it.

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

But I'm stuck with one particular post, where one poster took his shiny new ACT clutch to an old-skool installer. The installer eyeballed the new clutch, and the JL hydraulics, and said something like "those hydraulics ain't gonna hold up to a clutch that stiff."

That may have been me, LOL. That old school mechanic has since retired, or else he’d surely be saying, “I told you so!”

 

[_olllllllo_]

I have the Centerforce dual friction and the addition of the hydraulic throw out bearing and the new shop cleaning up the mess the previous shop made during installation by using red n' tacky has been amazing. The OEM throw out bearing that came from the factory install looked great compared to the mess the red n' tacky turned the OEM replacement into.

Here is what my throw out bearing from the first shop looked like before the new shop installed the hydraulic throw out bearing and importantly talked to Centerfore for an hour to make sure the installation was done correctly. I have also included the gooped up shift fork cup.

 

[Gregj]

. I'm a little wary of the software update, but my plan is to reset everything on my Jscan before the recall and then change back my gearing and tire size once the new clutch and software are installed. I've heard that helps folks avoid the limp mode issue. I'll also ask them to go over the hydraulics and look for any leaking or possible source for air to get in the lines.

Having been through the recall with tires and gears, leave everything as is and just remind them that they have been changed and everything will be ok. If you change the gears the recall will throw a fit when they test drive it.
They will quickly get this screen

Followed by this screen and limp mode.

Gregj

 

[Jeremynolan94]

Having been through the recall with tires and gears, leave everything as is and just remind them that they have been changed and everything will be ok. If you change the gears the recall will throw a fit when they test drive it.
They will quickly get this screen

Followed by this screen and limp mode.

Gregj

Did you have to do anything in particular after the recall then, or did your dealer handle everything regarding tire/gear reprogramming? I only ask because I want to be very specific with them when I drop it off.

 

[Gregj]

Did you have to do anything in particular after the recall then, or did your dealer handle everything regarding tire/gear reprogramming? I only ask because I want to be very specific with them when I drop it off.

I had already regeared from 3.45 to 4.10 and had 37’s on the Jeep. I didn’t do anything special just told the service writer that it had been regeared and obviously had much larger tires on it. I had also swapped the standard Sport instrument cluster for a full color Rubicon one at 5,200 miles about 5 years ago and he said no worries, they know what they were doing. This was important as there is a different recall for each type of dash, if yours is stock there won’t be any issues.
They need to NOT “restore configuration” when they are finishing up as it will knock out all you setting changes. This happened to my son’s Jeep and he had to go redo all of his changes before they could finish and test drive his.
In all both our Jeeps have been many miles and off road trips since without issues.
Good luck!

Gregj

 

[Jeremynolan94]

Update: I picked my Jeep up today after the 19a recall. Shifting is much, much smoother than the ACT ever was. The clutch bite point is definitely a little less defined than the ACT, but it feels better than the original clutch; I'll attribute that to having regeared to 4.56. The stock flywheel is much lighter than the ACT and as a result there is almost no rev hang, whereas in the ACT it was very pronounced. The pedal is extremely light.

Overall I'm very happy with how it feels. I've had no warnings or issues with going into limp mode after almost 40 miles of mixed city/highway driving. If you're on the fence about the recall, I'd do it.

I ordered a set of Baja Boss AT pizza cutters which I think will compliment this setup well. Looking forward to many more miles with this Jeep.

 

[OldGuyNewJeep]

Pulled the trigger on CFII with hydraulic throw-out. Found a shop owner/tech (one man operation) nearby that does a lot of Centerforce installs. He’s familiar with the JL.

Fingers crossed. I hate banking on a mechanic I’ve never used, but my guy retired. I did meet him in person and had a long conversation. He seems knowledgeable, and his reviews are stellar. He was finishing putting a CF in a Mustang when I arrived. Has one in his personal Challenger. Found him via another popular (big) shop who very honestly said, “Go see Todd down the road. We send him all of our transmission and engine swap work.”

I just can’t see paying to have transmission dropped, input shaft cleaned, maybe replacing plastic throw-out, and then just hoping the ACT would be normal for another two years before doing it all again. Not much more labor cost to put in a better solution.

Breaking point was on Monday. Started Jeep in garage while it was in reverse. I’ve done that every day for 7 years. This time it lurched and started moving with the pedal buried in the floor. Clutch no longer disengaging fully. Did a vacuum bleed and it was better the next day, but I’m over it.

I’ll report back with results in a couple of weeks.

OK, it's done!

• Pedal is silky smooth. (Not as light as stock, but lighter than ACT)
  • My ACT setup degraded to the point where it'd grab 1" from the floor no matter how many times it was bled. It also got harder to depress the pedal as the system heated up and when it got really hot it would start to feel crunchy. After a lot of stop and go the bottom of my foot started to get uncomfortable from the pressure required.
  • The Centerforce's bite point is 1/2 way through its travel (where I remember stock being)
  • Even with only 15 miles on it, launching is buttery smooth. I recall the ACT was jerky for the first couple of hundred miles, especially in reverse
• More inertia than I remember stock having, but not as much as the ACT
  • Reverse up incline is fine, same as ACT and 100x better than stock
  • Crawl in 1st while in line at stop sign - smooth, same as ACT and 100x better than stock
  • I will miss the ACT's inertia a little bit - I like how it would sort of pull the Jeep forward, if that description makes sense
• No resistance getting into 1st, now. All gates are smooth. The ACT became hit-or-miss, so this is a big improvement.
• Shifting while accelerating is taking getting used to, again, because the bite point is way higher and there's less inertia (also less rev hang if I wind it past 4,000 RPM, which I really never do)
• The first hill start threw me because of the new bite point, but it'll be fine once I update my muscle memory

Time will be the ultimate test and I don't want to jinx myself, but initial impression is VERY positive. The pedal feel and bite point is especially good.

Oh, and I have myself a new mechanic. He was awesome. Spent lots of time talking with me before and after the job. He took pictures and showed me (I didn't ask for a copy because they're nothing we haven't seen).

@_olllllllo_ my input shaft, fork, and bearing were squeaky clean. That means the shop that did my ACT install followed the directions (makes sense as they ended up on the phone with Dirk after struggling with the slave alignment). The new mechanic said there was no friction dust or anything gummy, so my problem was not the same as yours.

What does this mean for ACT? The stock hydraulics aren't up to the task of pushing that heavy clutch? The stock throw-out was starting to wear? One thing is for certain - I had air in my line that just wouldn't stay bled out. (Grabbing at the floor and not disengaging are tell-tale signs.) But... why was it 10x worse on hot, humid days?

Anyway, I'm reluctantly withdrawing my ACT endorsement after initially singing their praise. Mechanic could find nothing wrong with the way it was installed, so not the same problem @SadRobot and @_olllllllo_ had.

I'm hopeful that the CFII with hydraulic throw-out lasts for the rest of my Jeep's life!

Edit to add: Anyone want to buy my ACT? I haven't even opened the box to see what kind of shape it's in.

 

[SadRobot]

OK, it's done!

• Pedal is silky smooth. (Not as light as stock, but lighter than ACT)
  • My ACT setup degraded to the point where it'd grab 1" from the floor no matter how many times it was bled. It also got harder to depress the pedal as the system heated up and when it got really hot it would start to feel crunchy. After a lot of stop and go the bottom of my foot started to get uncomfortable from the pressure required.
  • The Centerforce's bite point is 1/2 way through its travel (where I remember stock being)
  • Even with only 15 miles on it, launching is buttery smooth. I recall the ACT was jerky for the first couple of hundred miles, especially in reverse
• More inertia than I remember stock having, but not as much as the ACT
  • Reverse up incline is fine, same as ACT and 100x better than stock
  • Crawl in 1st while in line at stop sign - smooth, same as ACT and 100x better than stock
  • I will miss the ACT's inertia a little bit - I like how it would sort of pull the Jeep forward, if that description makes sense
• No resistance getting into 1st, now. All gates are smooth. The ACT became hit-or-miss, so this is a big improvement.
• Shifting while accelerating is taking getting used to, again, because the bite point is way higher and there's less inertia (also less rev hang if I wind it past 4,000 RPM, which I really never do)
• The first hill start threw me because of the new bite point, but it'll be fine once I update my muscle memory

Time will be the ultimate test and I don't want to jinx myself, but initial impression is VERY positive. The pedal feel and bite point is especially good.

Oh, and I have myself a new mechanic. He was awesome. Spent lots of time talking with me before and after the job. He took pictures and showed me (I didn't ask for a copy because they're nothing we haven't seen).

@_olllllllo_ my input shaft, fork, and bearing were squeaky clean. That means the shop that did my ACT install followed the directions (makes sense as they ended up on the phone with Dirk after struggling with the slave alignment). The new mechanic said there was no friction dust or anything gummy, so my problem was not the same as yours.

What does this mean for ACT? The stock hydraulics aren't up to the task of pushing that heavy clutch? The stock throw-out was starting to wear? One thing is for certain - I had air in my line that just wouldn't stay bled out. (Grabbing at the floor and not disengaging are tell-tale signs.) But... why was it 10x worse on hot, humid days?

Anyway, I'm reluctantly withdrawing my ACT endorsement after initially singing their praise. Mechanic could find nothing wrong with the way it was installed, so not the same problem @SadRobot and @_olllllllo_ had.

I'm hopeful that the CFII with hydraulic throw-out lasts for the rest of my Jeep's life!

Sounds like a good result. Keep us posted how it goes once you've got more miles on it.

 

[mudpup]

OK, it's done!

• More inertia than I remember stock having, but not as much as the ACT

Far greater than stock.

Stock flywheel 29.6lb
CFII flywheel 43.9
ACT is 44 ? so basically the same weight.

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