Higher Caster on Stock JLUR?

[nU7OuxIx]

I've been battling what I feel like my Jeep being all over the road. I've tried lower tire pressure, and that didn't help much. I also used a digital angle measure on the two holes next to the pumpkin, and it was about 89.8 or so degrees. I finally went in to get my alignment numbers this morning, and they seem to match what I was seeing; almost 6 degrees of caster. Now mind you, this is a stock JLU Rubicon, but I have the mopar steel bumpers and a warn evo winch. I would say that the majority of people on the forum see about 4 degrees of caster.

My question is where to go from here. Does anybody know why I'm seeing much more caster than the usual person? Should I be swapping the LCA's out for the mopar lift ones to increase caster and make it drive better? I'm afraid if I do, I would be close to 7 to 8 degrees of caster and it would too much.

Sponsored

 

[roaniecowpony]

Nominal Jeep spec is 4.8 degrees. Mine was within 0.1 degrees of the nominal and drove great...after getting the steering box, balljoints and trackbar replaced.

Your caster is only slightly (0.6-0.8 degrees) higher than nominal. Some of this might be a calibration deviation, or tolerance of the equipment that was used to measure you jeep. In either case, it shouldn't make any difference in the driveability of your jeep.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Yes, they would help and you could be closer to 6. I cannot imagine you would be at 7 or 8 with no other mods.

Let me see if I can find my alignment specs after installing them.

 

[nU7OuxIx]

Yes, they would help and you could be closer to 6. I cannot imagine you would be at 7 or 8 with no other mods.

Let me see if I can find my alignment specs after installing them.

Thank you. If you could find and post the before and after, that would be great. It seems like lately I've been throwing money around hoping to get fixes and it doesn't. I would hate to spend 100 bucks on the LCA's and all the effort and muscle for something that is going to be a worst driving experience.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Much is made about the caster in Jeeps. I believe a lot of it comes from the fact that all jeeps prior to the JKU and JLU (4 dr models) are short wheelbase and therefore have very reactive steering. More caster will slow the steering input, but it won't cure a loose steering issue.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Mike,
Can you tell us more about your JLUR? Year, miles, whether or not you have aftermarket parts in the steering, trackbar, lift, etc., and what steering box you have?

 

[CarbonSteel]

Thank you. If you could find and post the before and after, that would be great. It seems like lately I've been throwing money around hoping to get fixes and it doesn't. I would hate to spend 100 bucks on the LCA's and all the effort and muscle for something that is going to be a worst driving experience.

Found where I posted after installing them. We did not check before, but after was 6.3 and 6.4.

If you still have the aluminum steering box, that should be first on your list to change.

PS...no way increasing the caster would make it worse unless you go too far and the Mopar ones cannot add too much caster.

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...ou-do-to-your-jeep-jl-today.3033/post-1220354

 

[DOOKEY]

I've been battling what I feel like my Jeep being all over the road.

I like your current caster numbers. What's the rest of the equation? What tires? Tire size? What wheels/backspacing?

Try to describe the wander situation. How it happens. Leave nothing out. We'll get you there.

 

[nU7OuxIx]

Mike,
Can you tell us more about your JLUR? Year, miles, whether or not you have aftermarket parts in the steering, trackbar, lift, etc., and what steering box you have?

Of course. I have a 2021 JLUR, about 13k miles, absolutely stock besides the winch I added. I have air bags in the rear that are mostly deflated (have about 5 psi). Stock steering, stock trackbar, stock sway bar, etc. My jeep came with the steel steering box from the factory. Never been back to the dealer for anything. I did torque my driver side lower ball joint to 33 ft/lbs because it was a tad loose, then moved it to the next castle nut hole so it would line up for the pin. I also have the mopar steel bumpers and a hard top.

It's driven like this since day 1, so I don't think it was anything I added. I will say that either I'm getting used to it or the steering has improved with mileage. Even with that though, I feel like it can be better. The problem is that I feel like it always needs tiny corrections through steering. And if I take my eyes off the road in front of me, I feel like it starts to drift.

 

[nU7OuxIx]

I like your current caster numbers. What's the rest of the equation? What tires? Tire size? What wheels/backspacing?

Try to describe the wander situation. How it happens. Leave nothing out. We'll get you there.

Rubicon stock tires. LT285/70R17/C KO2's. I dropped them down to 30psi and it was OK, but honestly, not much better than if I run them at 37psi, so I stick with the stock 37psi. Tried doing the chalk test but I couldn't tell much of a difference between any of the PSI's from 30 to 40 psi. I also have the Rubicon stock rims. I didn't change the stock backspacing, didn't add any spacers, etc.

I kind of described it above. I came from driving a Subaru Impreza so I was used to that type of steering/suspension. I haven't driven the Impreza for about 2 years. I feel like I constantly need a lot of tiny corrections. The jeep drives straight if I take my hands off the wheel when driving slow. But if I look off to the side when driving on the expressway, then it starts to drift.

Maybe it's just me and it's normal. I've been chasing this for a few years and now that I have my alignment numbers, I'm looking into it again.

Thanks!

 

[DOOKEY]

Rubicon stock tires. LT285/70R17/C KO2's. I dropped them down to 30psi and it was OK, but honestly, not much better than if I run them at 37psi, so I stick with the stock 37psi. Tried doing the chalk test but I couldn't tell much of a difference between any of the PSI's from 30 to 40 psi. I also have the Rubicon stock rims. I didn't change the stock backspacing, didn't add any spacers, etc.

I kind of described it above. I came from driving a Subaru Impreza so I was used to that type of steering/suspension. I haven't driven the Impreza for about 2 years. I feel like I constantly need a lot of tiny corrections. The jeep drives straight if I take my hands off the wheel when driving slow. But if I look off to the side when driving on the expressway, then it starts to drift.

Maybe it's just me and it's normal. I've been chasing this for a few years and now that I have my alignment numbers, I'm looking into it again.

Thanks!

Just the nature of the beast with this type of suspension and steering. I don't get the impression you have an issue. You can dial out the dead spot but you sacrifice comfort. Every last bit of your suspension has isolation bushing in it. You'll always fight the correction feeling unless you move to solid end links. Even putting solid bushing on one end isn't enough if you really pay attention to it. You have to do all 16 suspension bushings and all 8 track bar bushings. Then your sidwall comes into play. It's an up hill battle.

I tried for years to get everything I wanted out of 1 Jeep. I eventually conceded it wasn't possible and learned to live with the Jeep for what it was and bought a Corvette. LOL

 

[roaniecowpony]

Of course. I have a 2021 JLUR, about 13k miles, absolutely stock besides the winch I added. I have air bags in the rear that are mostly deflated (have about 5 psi). Stock steering, stock trackbar, stock sway bar, etc. My jeep came with the steel steering box from the factory. Never been back to the dealer for anything. I did torque my driver side lower ball joint to 33 ft/lbs because it was a tad loose, then moved it to the next castle nut hole so it would line up for the pin. I also have the mopar steel bumpers and a hard top.

It's driven like this since day 1, so I don't think it was anything I added. I will say that either I'm getting used to it or the steering has improved with mileage. Even with that though, I feel like it can be better. The problem is that I feel like it always needs tiny corrections through steering. And if I take my eyes off the road in front of me, I feel like it starts to drift.

Since you have the steel steering box, you should also check to see if you have the 68394087 trackbar (quite likely). While you're under there (if you haven't already), check the torque on the trackbar, tierod, draglink, and the pitman arm 42mm nut (184 ft/lbs).

After that, my thoughts go to the balljoints. Mine allowed a shimmy at high speeds and some steering play. I had just above 20,000 miles on mine at the time.

 

[nU7OuxIx]

Since you have the steel steering box, you should also check to see if you have the 68394087 trackbar (quite likely). While you're under there (if you haven't already), check the torque on the trackbar, tierod, draglink, and the pitman arm 42mm nut (184 ft/lbs).

I was tempted to check the torque on everything else yesterday but saw how much of a PITA it's going to be so I didn't bother. Maybe if I feel better this weekend I'll get around to doing it. Question, can I check the torque of these components when the jeep is on jack stands? It looks easier to torque without tires on it.

After that, my thoughts go to the balljoints. Mine allowed a shimmy at high speeds and some steering play. I had just above 20,000 miles on mine at the time.

Did you swap your ball joints or kept them?

 

[nU7OuxIx]

Just the nature of the beast with this type of suspension and steering. I don't get the impression you have an issue. You can dial out the dead spot but you sacrifice comfort. Every last bit of your suspension has isolation bushing in it. You'll always fight the correction feeling unless you move to solid end links. Even putting solid bushing on one end isn't enough if you really pay attention to it. You have to do all 16 suspension bushings and all 8 track bar bushings. Then your sidwall comes into play. It's an up hill battle.

I tried for years to get everything I wanted out of 1 Jeep. I eventually conceded it wasn't possible and learned to live with the Jeep for what it was and bought a Corvette. LOL

So what you're saying is that if everything is torqued to spec, it's more of a user issue than a jeep issue? That's pretty much what I need to know. I'll swap out the LCA if it would help but my caster is already higher than normal.

Also, I failed to mention (or maybe we all assume), but I do some light to moderate wheeling. Nothing major, but it has seen mud pits, a rock garden once, and sand dunes. I wouldn't say my wife necessarily launched it, but my dog did catch some air when she was in the tailgate area. I always wondered if something got bent or damaged on that one.

 

[roaniecowpony]

Maybe it's just me and it's normal. I've been chasing this for a few years and now that I have my alignment numbers, I'm looking into it again.

Thanks!

It's not "normal". I chased the loose steering in my 2018 for years. It drives better now, on a 3.5" lift and 37s than it did when I bought it, by far. It feels tight at 80 mph. I have no feeling of play or wandering. Every joint in the front steering and suspension contributes to the tightness/looseness of the steering. Don't discount the effect of even slightly loose balljoints. Also, often never mentioned is the steering column, which has at least a few couplings before getting to the steering box, and which there was a TSB, IIRC.

Sponsored