Fire at Jeep Wrangler storage lot in Toledo

[NavyVet1959]

Gas is extremely predictable. It needs air and an ignition source. Lithium requires neither to catch fire.
Lithium batteries can catch fire by simply having an internal manufacturing flaw. It’s more like a Trojan horse. Park it in your garage, plug it in, then suddenly your garage catches fire hours later and burns up your house (or parking lot).

I saw a house sustain major damages (pretty much gutted) a few years ago due to a fire that appeared to have been caused by a car that was in a semi-detached garage (i.e. connected by a breezeway). The fire appeared to have traveled through the breezeway into the rear wall of the house and then up it and into the attic. Electric cars weren't around back then, so it was most likely a fuel leak on a hot engine. I couldn't tell the age of the car since it was pretty burnt up, but I've even seen pretty recent model Mercedes catching on fire on the side of the highway because of an apparent fuel leak. It doesn't happen often, but it *can* happen. All in all though, I'll take my chances with a dino-juice powered car over an electric one.

Sponsored

 

[Joe]

I saw a house sustain major damages (pretty much gutted) a few years ago due to a fire that appeared to have been caused by a car that was in a semi-detached garage (i.e. connected by a breezeway). The fire appeared to have traveled through the breezeway into the rear wall of the house and then up it and into the attic. Electric cars weren't around back then, so it was most likely a fuel leak on a hot engine. I couldn't tell the age of the car since it was pretty burnt up, but I've even seen pretty recent model Mercedes catching on fire on the side of the highway because of an apparent fuel leak. It doesn't happen often, but it *can* happen. All in all though, I'll take my chances with a dino-juice powered car over an electric one.

Not very likely the engine was 495 degrees, how hot it would have to be to start a gas fire. It’s more likely to be an electrical fire. I’ve seen two different vehicles burn to the ground from that, one right in front of my house. The fire dept took a circular saw to the hood to disconnect the battery....seats were left with just the wire frame.

 

[Rockreid]

This entire argument reminds me of similar arguments 100 years ago as the country was changing over from horses to autos. One side said autos filled with gasoline were very dangerous and the other side promoting new technology insisting that horses kick over oil lanterns and can cause a barn fire and throw riders all the time. My how times don’t change.

The world is changing. Lots of things are rapidly changing and one big thing is battery technology. Battery powered autos are here and growing more and more dominant and it is one of those things people are going to have to get used to, or resist reality and simply take their thoughts to the grave with them. As far as an all-battery Wrangler... that will be the Wrangler JM

 

[aug0211]

Anyone have any info on the fires at the Jeep storage centers?

All I’ve got is an employee who had no details but said the fires are more common in the auto world than we’d expect - and that it really only became a big news story because it’s a bunch of new Jeeps.

 

[NCSUSTATS]

@NavyVet1959 , you are a voice of common sense ; your posts always make my day . We needed you in the Army .

By the way , I see enough tesla owners where I live to see they are all a bunch of silky limp wrists with falsetto voices , giggling into their precious phones ; UNqualified for anything military .

That’s just the automatic crowd.... MANUAL RULES!

 

[NCSUSTATS]

So , please tell us : HOW does a parking lot catch on fire ?

You don't want free-thinking people to talk about tesla fires and tesla crashes into fire engines , you want us to talk about the parking lot fire .

So , HOW does a parking lot catch on fire ?

ANSWER : a tesla showed up .

Exactly... reentry debris from SpaceX...damn you Elon, well played

 

[NavyVet1959]

Not very likely the engine was 495 degrees, how hot it would have to be to start a gas fire. It’s more likely to be an electrical fire. I’ve seen two different vehicles burn to the ground from that, one right in front of my house. The fire dept took a circular saw to the hood to disconnect the battery....seats were left with just the wire frame.

Or it pooled up and overflowed to the exhaust manifold.

 

[Joe]

Or it pooled up and overflowed to the exhaust manifold.

If fuel we're leaking that bad then the fire would start before someone parked it and walked inside.

 

[Majestic]

This entire argument reminds me of similar arguments 100 years ago as the country was changing over from horses to autos. One side said autos filled with gasoline were very dangerous and the other side promoting new technology insisting that horses kick over oil lanterns and can cause a barn fire and throw riders all the time. My how times don’t change.

The world is changing. Lots of things are rapidly changing and one big thing is battery technology. Battery powered autos are here and growing more and more dominant and it is one of those things people are going to have to get used to, or resist reality and simply take their thoughts to the grave with them. As far as an all-battery Wrangler... that will be the Wrangler JM

It’s doubtful an argument like that ever took place. An auto can do what a horse cannot do, unlike an EV vs ICE which essentially do the same thing via different means. Cars sold themselves and required no government incentives.

A more appropriate comparison would be gas vs diesel. The two technologies have coexisted because they both are optimized for specific applications.

A fully electric Wrangler would be a terrible EV. To go an additional 100 miles on a gas Wrangler just strap a 5 gallon jerry can to the back. Try to add another 100 miles to an EV Wrangler would require dragging a massive battery behind it at least 20 times the size.

 

[bilash31]

A fully electric Wrangler would be a terrible EV. To go an additional 100 miles on a gas Wrangler just strap a 5 gallon jerry can to the back. Try to add another 100 miles to an EV Wrangler would require dragging a massive battery behind it at least 20 times the size.

You’re making a huge assumption in your first sentence that I don’t know anyone has the data to support or argue. That enough owners drive their wrangler far enough (like into the back country) to need the extra fuel or charge. What about the owners who have a wrangler only for their beach house to drive around town, or the weekend tote your kids to practice family, or the city dweller who just wants the new cool convertible that everyone is discussing, etc. Me, as an environmentalist and jeep lover, I’d love an electric wrangler and can’t wait to see what it becomes. Sure, to keep up with my overlanding or rock crawling, I will keep and use my JK. But, maybe you meant this, I’d agree a fully electric wrangler as the ONLY powertrain option would be terrible.

 

[NavyVet1959]

You’re making a huge assumption in your first sentence that I don’t know anyone has the data to support or argue. That enough owners drive their wrangler far enough (like into the back country) to need the extra fuel or charge. What about the owners who have a wrangler only for their beach house to drive around town, or the weekend tote your kids to practice family, or the city dweller who just wants the new cool convertible that everyone is discussing, etc. Me, as an environmentalist and jeep lover, I’d love an electric wrangler and can’t wait to see what it becomes. Sure, to keep up with my overlanding or rock crawling, I will keep and use my JK. But, maybe you meant this, I’d agree a fully electric wrangler as the ONLY powertrain option would be terrible.

Then go drive a golf cart and quit wanting to make the Wrangler into something that it has no business being.

 

[Majestic]

You’re making a huge assumption in your first sentence that I don’t know anyone has the data to support or argue. That enough owners drive their wrangler far enough (like into the back country) to need the extra fuel or charge. What about the owners who have a wrangler only for their beach house to drive around town, or the weekend tote your kids to practice family, or the city dweller who just wants the new cool convertible that everyone is discussing, etc. Me, as an environmentalist and jeep lover, I’d love an electric wrangler and can’t wait to see what it becomes. Sure, to keep up with my overlanding or rock crawling, I will keep and use my JK. But, maybe you meant this, I’d agree a fully electric wrangler as the ONLY powertrain option would be terrible.

You could say the same thing about making a 2wd Wrangler. Most people don’t need 4wd anyway, maybe they just want a cheaper, lighter, more fuel efficient 2wd Wrangler just for going to the beach house and tote kids to soccer practice. They tried that approach in 2007 and it was sales disaster. Even people who didn’t use 4wd didn’t want a non capable Wrangler that didn’t live up to the image.

Then of course there’s the physics of it. It’s brick shape would drain a battery much quicker than an typical EV and require even more size to provide a practical range. I don’t know if I would want to submerge a battery during water fording, nor use the battery pack as a giant skid plate.

 

[NavyVet1959]

If fuel we're leaking that bad then the fire would start before someone parked it and walked inside.

Not necessarily... Maybe it's a slow drip and the airflow through the engine compartment combined with the heat of the engine is enough to evaporate it while also keeping the air content high enough that it is not flammable. The car gets stopped and the dripping continues and pools up, eventually overflowing onto the exhaust manifold which is at a high enough temperature for autoignition. The flame then causes the pooled gas to also ignite. I've had such a fire on a '69 Pontiac that was probably only 8 years old at the time as it was sitting in my driveway. Someone knocked on my door to tell me that my car was on fire. I ran around to the side of the house, grabbed a hose with a sprayer on it. Opened the hood and flames shot out, but using the high velocity fan spray, it quickly put the fire out. The smaller droplets of water flash to steam, taking the heat out of the fire equation and at the same time displace the oxygen, taking it out of the equation also.

 

[bilash31]

Ok, we are off topic so I won’t continue, but it’s good we can all have our opinions.

 

[Joe]

Not necessarily... Maybe it's a slow drip and the airflow through the engine compartment combined with the heat of the engine is enough to evaporate it while also keeping the air content high enough that it is not flammable. The car gets stopped and the dripping continues and pools up, eventually overflowing onto the exhaust manifold which is at a high enough temperature for autoignition. The flame then causes the pooled gas to also ignite. I've had such a fire on a '69 Pontiac that was probably only 8 years old at the time as it was sitting in my driveway. Someone knocked on my door to tell me that my car was on fire. I ran around to the side of the house, grabbed a hose with a sprayer on it. Opened the hood and flames shot out, but using the high velocity fan spray, it quickly put the fire out. The smaller droplets of water flash to steam, taking the heat out of the fire equation and at the same time displace the oxygen, taking it out of the equation also.

Your 69 was a carb motor and they had different fuel systems and other things. The scenario you suggest not not very likely with today's cars. Most modern day fires are electrical.

Sponsored