Your Jeep is pretty complex

[Remorseless]

Yeah it's not like Jeeps ever were high quality. Really all that's changed is that they are now built out of so many more low quality components AND you can no longer fix them on the trail.

Depends on what you break. You can absolutely fix a busted axle on the trail, nothing special required beyond basic hand tools (though an electric impact is a lot nicer for breaking loose the axle nut from the hub). Same for a driveshaft or a control arm or any other number of physical issues. JLs really aren't much more complex than JKs - they have, by and large, the same nannies and modules - and there's tons of JKs that've seen tens of thousands of trail miles without unfixable issues. Mine was one of them - a decade and 100k mi on a '12 (3.6 and NAG 1 trans, so extra modules and such over the original '07s), all of which were spent lifted and on/off trails, and only physical failures to show for it (ball joints, ripped a shock bolt through the tower's bolt hole, banged up skids that had to be replaced because they were hitting stuff, etc).

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[autotragic]

A JL has fewer subsystems than a helicopter. And if something goes wrong in your JL you don't have to worry about how you're going to crash it.

If you're a Toyota buyer then it probably is complicated but if you've ever actually worked on anything in your life nothing about a regular car is really that big of a deal.

 

[Pig-Pen]

But don't you feel significantly safer In a JL vs the CJ

and greener!!

 

[TheRaven]

Depends on what you break. You can absolutely fix a busted axle on the trail, nothing special required beyond basic hand tools (though an electric impact is a lot nicer for breaking loose the axle nut from the hub). Same for a driveshaft or a control arm or any other number of physical issues. JLs really aren't much more complex than JKs - they have, by and large, the same nannies and modules - and there's tons of JKs that've seen tens of thousands of trail miles without unfixable issues. Mine was one of them - a decade and 100k mi on a '12 (3.6 and NAG 1 trans, so extra modules and such over the original '07s), all of which were spent lifted and on/off trails, and only physical failures to show for it (ball joints, ripped a shock bolt through the tower's bolt hole, banged up skids that had to be replaced because they were hitting stuff, etc).

Certainly - but I'm talking about the stuff that breaks due to poor quality control and lazy design, not the crap we break while trying to do the stupid shit we inevitably try to do. Most of that stuff doesn't break under regular daily use.

 

[Remorseless]

Certainly - but I'm talking about the stuff that breaks due to poor quality control and lazy design, not the crap we break while trying to do the stupid shit we inevitably try to do. Most of that stuff doesn't break under regular daily use.

And which aspects of poor QC and lazy design would that be that would strand a Jeep in an unfixable way on the trail? Generally, if the motor's running and you can turn a wrench, you can get a Jeep off the trail, JLs and JKs included.

 

[TheRaven]

And which aspects of poor QC and lazy design would that be that would strand a Jeep in an unfixable way on the trail? Generally, if the motor's running and you can turn a wrench, you can get a Jeep off the trail, JLs and JKs included.

 

[Remorseless]

Any actual reports of this happening off road? Seems like they've only been noted to happen on road.

Either way, totally fixable on the trail. Mopar Z fuse array, no biggie install. If you're worried about it carry a spare.

Edit: even without a spare, can just swap N3 fuse to N4.

 

[TheRaven]

Any actual reports of this happening off road? Seems like they've only been noted to happen on road.

Either way, totally fixable on the trail. Mopar Z fuse array, no biggie install. If you're worried about it carry a spare.

It was my understanding that this was caused by the "STAR" connector behind the dash and not the Z fuse. That being the case, it would seem to be MORE likely to happen off-road, not less.

But see this is where we are getting into territory that was foreign to me until owning a Jeep. With no other brand vehicle have I ever had to carry SPARE VEHICLE ELECTRONICS on board on any adventure where I wanted to be prepared for issues. Spare tire, tools, recovery equipment, food, clothing, shelter...spare ECM, TCM, BCM, main harness, laptop with satellite uplink for firmware download...

Yes this is embellishment but really, some of the stuff that Jeep guys propose carrying on adventures would be taken as clearly a joke elsewhere.

 

[Ratbert]

Has anyone done much wheeling with Toyota groups? I was shocked at the variety of spare parts they had and how frequently they stopped to replace things, especially in the front suspension.

 

[NWJeepr]

It was my understanding that this was caused by the "STAR" connector behind the dash and not the Z fuse. That being the case, it would seem to be MORE likely to happen off-road, not less.

But see this is where we are getting into territory that was foreign to me until owning a Jeep. With no other brand vehicle have I ever had to carry SPARE VEHICLE ELECTRONICS on board on any adventure where I wanted to be prepared for issues. Spare tire, tools, recovery equipment, food, clothing, shelter...spare ECM, TCM, BCM, main harness, laptop with satellite uplink for firmware download...

Yes this is embellishment but really, some of the stuff that Jeep guys propose carrying on adventures would be taken as clearly a joke elsewhere.

Actually, you just need to wiggle the fuses and make sure they're seated fully

 

[Remorseless]

It was my understanding that this was caused by the "STAR" connector behind the dash and not the Z fuse. That being the case, it would seem to be MORE likely to happen off-road, not less.

But see this is where we are getting into territory that was foreign to me until owning a Jeep. With no other brand vehicle have I ever had to carry SPARE VEHICLE ELECTRONICS on board on any adventure where I wanted to be prepared for issues. Spare tire, tools, recovery equipment, food, clothing, shelter...spare ECM, TCM, BCM, main harness, laptop with satellite uplink for firmware download...

Yes this is embellishment but really, some of the stuff that Jeep guys propose carrying on adventures would be taken as clearly a joke elsewhere.

So, I know you're not like a wheeling culture person, but spare fuses are common for off road vehicles that actually get wheeled of all makes. Off road lights, winches, aftermarket electric cooling fans, etc can cause a lot of draw on systems, and a lot of folks are really bad at picking good circuits. Most folks who wheel really hard carry wiring bags with lots of spare stuff for trail fixes. More common in older vehicles with lots of stuff grafted into existing circuits, but still eminently fixable on the trail.

Nobody says to carry a spare ECM/TCM, main harness, or laptop though. I've never heard anyone actually recommend that - Jeep, Toyota, or any other make.

The STAR connector, however, is just making sure the pins are seated or replacing the cheap part. Pretty rare failure too though, not overly common at all. And you can just wiggle it often times to get the Jeep started again, so also trail fixable. But again - if you're worried about that part, it's a small spare that fits in the glove box and just takes a little time and knowhow to fix, and can easily be done on the trail.

 

[yokramer]

Nobody says to carry a spare ECM/TCM, main harness, or laptop though. I've never heard anyone actually recommend that - Jeep, Toyota, or any other make.

Shit laptops are becoming more and more common with older built rigs due to engine swaps and tuning even.

 

[Remorseless]

Shit laptops are becoming more and more common with older built rigs due to engine swaps and tuning even.

True, and aftermarket EFI systems. I wouldn't be on the trail with an EFI-updated engine without ability to check the EFI software.

 

[Remorseless]

Has anyone done much wheeling with Toyota groups? I was shocked at the variety of spare parts they had and how frequently they stopped to replace things, especially in the front suspension.

No lie, there's been folks who've found fire pits with a couple of CVs thrown in them at our Nat'l Forest OHV because their Toyota ate a bunch and they got pissy and burned them.

 

[Terrymo]

So, I know you're not like a wheeling culture person, but spare fuses are common for off road vehicles that actually get wheeled of all makes. Off road lights, winches, aftermarket electric cooling fans, etc can cause a lot of draw on systems, and a lot of folks are really bad at picking good circuits. Most folks who wheel really hard carry wiring bags with lots of spare stuff for trail fixes. More common in older vehicles with lots of stuff grafted into existing circuits, but still eminently fixable on the trail.

Nobody says to carry a spare ECM/TCM, main harness, or laptop though. I've never heard anyone actually recommend that - Jeep, Toyota, or any other make.

The STAR connector, however, is just making sure the pins are seated or replacing the cheap part. Pretty rare failure too though, not overly common at all. And you can just wiggle it often times to get the Jeep started again, so also trail fixable. But again - if you're worried about that part, it's a small spare that fits in the glove box and just takes a little time and knowhow to fix, and can easily be done on the trail.

i carry too much and always convince myself I’ll be a hero and help someone else. Or at least provide tools if I don’t know what Im doing. That‘s just so I don’t have to admit it could be my own vehicle.

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