You wanted cheaper prices, right?

[Wbino]

I have worked in 2 multinational companies. One was an insurance company - in IT, the other was at Compressor Controls Corp, an electronic engineering company.
I found it interesting that at the insurance company - PFG - the very best as solving problems were from - India. They came up with more simple, elegant solutions than others had been able to come up with.
At CCC - we hired electronic engineers from around the world. Why? Because there weren't enough qualified US engineers to fill the need. Many came from Russia, India, as well as other countries.
In both cases, it wasn't about saving money - because they were brought in to the USA, it was about getting the very best.
At CCC, only a bit over half of the electronic engineers and programmers were born and bred USA. The rest came from around the world and came to Iowa to work there - for the same exact wages.
The USA was falling behind the curve.
Maybe we're back where we were in past decades, when Japanese engineering was far better, and even in the home appliance area, the very best come from Korea.

So maybe think of it in other ways.
Of course, it doesn't help that the UAW has cut the throats of many Americans with their demands. I don't know too many extremely educated and highly skilled people who make what an automaker can make now.
I'd be pissed if i wasn't retired, seeing what some of them make.

Works at a company that hires foreign nationals because they can't find any "Americans" then complains that actual bread and buter workers are cutting the throats of Americans. ?

Sponsored

 

[Wbino]

I know you’re kidding, but I’d offer these questions in response:

Do firemen who are much slower going up the ladders, duck extra duty, and perform at a lower level get paid less than those who are faster, perform well and consistently volunteer to help others? Is there any combination of reward or penalty to differentiate between those who are really great and those who are dead weight for the team to carry?

Does the union support differential treatment for cops who get “attaboys” from civilians, make more good arrests, and get recognized for valor (as opposed to the cops who make few contacts, never solve a crime, and contribute little?

The best teacher my kids ever had was an AP physics teacher. She was fantastic. When the school faced a budget crunch that class was eliminated and she got a layoff notice — not because of her job performance, but because she’d only been at the school two years. She was so well loved the kids in her classes petitioned the school and protested. Of course, the school was powerless and bound by the union contract, so she was laid off (and subsequently went to work for a local Catholic school we couldn’t afford to have our kids attend.) The teacher who replaced her at the public school was lousy and not competent to teach AP physics. Fortunately, both of my kids benefitted from the great one — and both got 5s on their national AP exams in Physics. Both kids, now in their 30s, credit that woman with kindling their love of science, and both went on to professions that rely heavily upon science? What did the teacher’s union do for the kids who followed my kids and got stuck with the old grump that wasn’t competent to teach AP physics and calculus?

Aside from making job performance irrelevant, the only thing the teacher’s union did for us is ensure my wife or I had to take more days off to stay home with our kids, as the teachers continue to get more “prep days” and other breaks from teaching.

And no, I’m far from perfect. I’ve made plenty of mistakes, and I’ve owned them. What I haven’t done is forced others to fight my battles for me, and I never laid around on my ass while others did my work for me. When I failed I was at least trying to be successful — and I didn’t expect to be rewarded as though I had been successful. Finally, when I was off work it was because my injuries were real. Even when I was injured I felt bad about being out of the game, but some of the slugs were off work so often they had no leave in their banks at all. Mysteriously, a disproportionate percentage of their sick days were on their work-Mondays and Fridays…

Does everybody on your union team contribute equally? You don’t have any slackers that show up late, skate on assignments, or expect others to fill in or cover for them? If so, I believe you are the fortunate exception to the rule. When I was a union member we had some people who did more than twice as much work as others (literally), made fewer errors, and consistently volunteered to help others with challenging jobs. We also had counterparts at the other end of the performance and teamwork spectrum. Unfortunately, our contract allowed no differentiation between the performers and the slugs who barely got by. A slug with fifteen years of seniority earned much more, got more time off, and got priority on shift bidding even if he did half the work and made more errors than the guy with three years on. Not surprisingly, we tended to keep the people like the 14 year guy, and lose the young performers who preferred to work in a merit-based system. This cycle was duplicated repeatedly over the few years I stuck it out, a pattern which can’t help but depreciate the overall performance of the team: it’s the exact opposite of survival of the fittest.

Your church is a union are you checking who's not putting cash in the collection hat?
The whole country is a union, are there states that under perform?
Sport teams are unions...sometimes you strike out.
You seem hyper focused on your abilities and those around you, I would not want to work in the same shop as you. The definition of a company man.

 

[jeepingib]

Works at a company that hires foreign nationals because they can't find any "Americans" then complains that actual bread and buter workers are cutting the throats of Americans. ?

UAW is not a bread and butter worker. They make much more than many skilled labor positions, which was the point he was making.

Their average salary is around 30 dollars an hour, which is about double the 17 dollar hourly wage that a production worker makes at a factory here in Texas. And the reason they were trying to shorten the work week was to get one of their work days counted as overtime.

But where it gets really ridiculous is all the benefits.
https://www.heritage.org/jobs-and-l...ctually-cost-the-big-three-automakers-70-hour

 

[Whaler27]

I have worked in 2 multinational companies. One was an insurance company - in IT, the other was at Compressor Controls Corp, an electronic engineering company.
I found it interesting that at the insurance company - PFG - the very best as solving problems were from - India. They came up with more simple, elegant solutions than others had been able to come up with.
At CCC - we hired electronic engineers from around the world. Why? Because there weren't enough qualified US engineers to fill the need. Many came from Russia, India, as well as other countries.
In both cases, it wasn't about saving money - because they were brought in to the USA, it was about getting the very best.
At CCC, only a bit over half of the electronic engineers and programmers were born and bred USA. The rest came from around the world and came to Iowa to work there - for the same exact wages.
The USA was falling behind the curve.
Maybe we're back where we were in past decades, when Japanese engineering was far better, and even in the home appliance area, the very best come from Korea.

So maybe think of it in other ways.
Of course, it doesn't help that the UAW has cut the throats of many Americans with their demands. I don't know too many extremely educated and highly skilled people who make what an automaker can make now.
I'd be pissed if i wasn't retired, seeing what some of them make.

The son I referenced earlier went to a top-ten ranked state medical school. Many of his med-school classmates were from India, Pakistan, South Korea, and other foreign countries. It was a very diverse class.

While in school medical students take a couple of career-defining, national, “step” exams. The scores on those exams control access to residency slots the graduates need to complete their medical training. During my son’s period, those who wanted to be neurosurgeons, or dermatologists needed scores in the top 3% to 5% of their national cohort to be competitive for a residency slot. Orthopedic surgery and anesthesiology slots were very competitive too. A ranking in the top third was good enough for some applicants including our son to secure a general surgery residency slot, but the competition was extremely intense at every stage. (I suspect little has changed).

There was a school-sponsored dinner and celebration at the end of our son’s six years of surgical residency. That was our first opportunity to see and learn about all of the young surgeons in his group. It was an amazingly diverse and interesting group from around the country and all over the world. All of them had long lists of extraordinary life experiences and accomplishments. One had played ten years in the NFL. One was a decorated corpsman who had served in a USMC unit for two tours in the middle east. A couple had been nurses. The group also included a PhD in physiology, a concert pianist, a ballet dancer, a former olympian, and a significant group for whom English was a second or third language.

I’m telling this long story because so many in this small group of highly accomplished surgical residents were from other countries, including a couple who had served in our military to earn their citizenship. Our son, who was an Eagle Scout, competed regionally in the martial arts, tied for class valedictorian in his high school class of 450 students, got perfect 5s on all five of his AP exams, crushed the SATs, and graduated cum laude from his university’s honors program, barely qualified for a surgical residency. We thought he’d stand out, as he always had, but in this group his performance and accomplishments were truly unremarkable. The “kids” from India, South Korea, and Pakistan were all incredibly capable and accomplished. Our son spoke of them and a guy from South Africa with great respect and fondness. They all set marks he felt he simply couldn’t match, and their resumes suggested he was right. They came from every disadvantage and outcompeted my son who had natural gifts, ample support, and many advantages. I couldn’t be prouder of my son, of course, and I’m not depreciating his success, but I found it concerning that such a large proportion of the nations most competitive physicians are foreign nationals, including some from extraordinarily impoverished and malnourished backgrounds. These folks enriched the training environment and raised the level of play there, so it’s great they came, but I’m wondering why so few Americans made it to the top cohort. I don’t have the answers — but I think we’re past being able to pretend like American workers/education/performance is the world gold standard. We should proceed with some national humility and ask ourselves what we can learn from other countries.

The Jeep “clone” being built in India is not coming to the US, but at under $20,000 for the simple stripper, I’d want to give it a hard look if it did. The reviews make it seem like a great ride, and it seems more like my simple old CJ. If I could have that simplicity, economy, and durability with the basic safety components I’d be a happy camper.

 

[Whaler27]

Your church is a union are you checking who's not putting cash in the collection hat?
The whole country is a union, are there states that under perform?
Sport teams are unions...sometimes you strike out.
You seem hyper focused on your abilities and those around you, I would not want to work in the same shop as you. The definition of a company man.

If you showed up, gave it your best effort, owned your mistakes, and worked to improve you’d find me a great friend and coworker.

If you moved like molasses, served only yourself, advocated against employee responsibility and accountability, ducked work, dumped on others, and preached union superiority, we’d lock horns daily.

I’m not “hyper focused” on a comparison of abilities, but I am aware of differences in effort, participation, and contribution. Everybody is. I don’t vilify or belittle people who do their best and can’t be successful. I just don’t think they should be paid more than people who do their best and ARE successful/effective.

There are many, many, many things I’m not got at. I tried not to pick professions that required those skills — but even in the professions I chose, lots of people were better at some things. Some were better at many things. Recognizing that helped me focus where I could improve.

Even as a kid getting paid for picking strawberries, I saw that some people earned more than me because the job was bringing in strawberries, and I didn’t bring in enough. The more focused, skilled, 17 year olds did much better than me. It never occurred to me to whine about wanting more money because we’re all on the same team. My take home lesson was “I need to speed up and match the older kids if I’m ever going to earn enough to buy that dirt bike!”

I guess we just have a different world view. If I didn’t notice who was faster or stronger as a kid I would not have had goals/targets/challenges to meet. I got better at some things because I had targets to reach. I can’t imagine what it would be like to be completely unaware of relative performance, standards, norms, or expectations. I haven’t achieved much in life, but if I was that combination of oblivious and apathetic I‘m sure I would have accomplished even less.

 

[NWJeepr]

In a normal work setting you would be able to hire on the open market and pay fair market value for labor.

But when a union like the UAW is involved, they ensure that you can not employ non union workers.

Correct. Because that is part of the contract, so long as the contract is in effect.

Stellantis could have also gone to the market and hired market labor at market prices when the UAW’s contract expired recently.

 

[Strommen95]

UAW is not a bread and butter worker. They make much more than many skilled labor positions, which was the point he was making.

Their average salary is around 30 dollars an hour, which is about double the 17 dollar hourly wage that a production worker makes at a factory here in Texas. And the reason they were trying to shorten the work week was to get one of their work days counted as overtime.

But where it gets really ridiculous is all the benefits.
https://www.heritage.org/jobs-and-l...ctually-cost-the-big-three-automakers-70-hour

That's what they negotiated, which the companies agreed to. Why is the CEO worth what they negotiate but union employees aren't?

 

[jeepingib]

Correct. Because that is part of the contract, so long as the contract is in effect.

Stellantis could have also gone to the market and hired market labor at market prices when the UAW’s contract expired recently.

They are going to market now, but instead of fighting against the UAW and all their corruption, they are taking the jobs to other countries. Exactly like I said it would happen.

 

[jeepingib]

That's what they negotiated, which the companies agreed to. Why is the CEO worth what they negotiate but union employees aren't?

Those were negotiations with a drawn gun on them. Now that production is moving again, they are looking at ways to stay profitable. The only thing that the market will bear is for them to cut costs of production. Can't use cheaper components, customers are already unhappy. Labor is expensive under UAW so they are planning to reduce the cost in order to still be able to make a profit. Simple economics.

 

[NWJeepr]

They are going to market now, but instead of fighting against the UAW and all their corruption, they are taking the jobs to other countries. Exactly like I said it would happen.

Does being an armchair CEO pay well?

Are Stellantis’ engineers Union?

 

[Strommen95]

Those were negotiations with a drawn gun on them. Now that production is moving again, they are looking at ways to stay profitable. The only thing that the market will bear is for them to cut costs of production. Can't use cheaper components, customers are already unhappy. Labor is expensive under UAW so they are planning to reduce the cost in order to still be able to make a profit. Simple economics.

Once again, bias is showing. CEO is right to negotiate, unions are "drawing a gun". It's genuinely hilarious that in all of these UAW threads, CEOs are defended for their pay and the union is vilified every time.

If agreeing to demands meant unprofitability, that's on management for capitulating. A figurative gun was never held to the big three. Just like when the usual idiots on here complain about prices, no gun was ever held to their head. What makes your statement even funnier is the companies knew for years this strike was coming

The UAW members are doing just fine. Actually, they're probably doing pretty good knowing how much envy there is out there. Maybe the engineers should've collectively bargained. Considering their higher education, one would think they understood the 'simple economics' of companies being able to relinquish non-unionized employees nearly at will.

 

[Deleted User 38384]

Not just that. with that Idiot that runs UAW...More Automakers are moving to Mexico. VW has massive facilities in Mexico. Toyota preemptively has moved all Tacoma production to Mexico. Ram, Chevy, etc. have also setup shop south of the border.

 

[NWJeepr]

Once again, bias is showing. CEO is right to negotiate, unions are "drawing a gun". It's genuinely hilarious that in all of these UAW threads, CEOs are defended for their pay and the union is vilified every time.

If agreeing to demands meant unprofitability, that's on management for capitulating. A figurative gun was never held to the big three. Just like when the usual idiots on here complain about prices, no gun was ever held to their head. What makes your statement even funnier is the companies knew for years this strike was coming

The UAW members are doing just fine. Actually, they're probably doing pretty good knowing how much envy there is out there. Maybe the engineers should've collectively bargained. Considering their higher education, one would think they understood the 'simple economics' of companies being able to relinquish non-unionized employees nearly at will.

There's also the totally incorrect assumption that Stellantis wasn't licking its chops to outsource anyway. That they somehow "only" did this because of the Union negotiations. They have operations all over the world for their portfolio of companies, and they're going to take opportunities wherever a decision maker can be patted on the back for saving money.

 

[Kaliks&Bones]

This thread sucks.

 

[Wbino]

This thread sucks.

There are eight " which tire should I get"? threads to keep you busy.

Sponsored