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TJ2018

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Just another example of CA being weird. Lane splitting is illegal here in Ohio, because it's dangerous. Not just for the rider, but for other traffic as well. As a rider myself, I'd never even consider splitting cars, no matter how slow they're going.
Tell me about it... we're looking to get out of CA just as soon as we can find suitable employment elsewhere! Anyone hiring??? ;) I mean c'mon... I drive a jeep... that should say something about my intelligence :CWL:

There are those who pass reasonably and with consideration and that works. Unfortunately there just aren't that many considerate people in CA (either in cars or on bikes!) :punch:
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:CWL: :LOL: Travis, that was just too funny. :like:

Just another example of CA being weird. Lane splitting is illegal here in Ohio, because it's dangerous. Not just for the rider, but for other traffic as well. As a rider myself, I'd never even consider splitting cars, no matter how slow they're going.

I've heard this more than once. Y'all need to get the heck out of those cities. I couldn't do it on a daily basis, and it drives me nuts when I have to do it on rare occasions. I actually picked an oncologist that's about 30 minutes further from me to avoid going into a city for the closer one. I don't know how you handle major city traffic. Small city traffic is annoying enough. I'll take my 2 lane, where a traffic jam is a row of cars/trucks backed up behind a tractor, or a few backed up waiting to pass a buggy.

Yes, the "rule" is 2 seconds. As speed increases, the distance increases if that 2 seconds is maintained. A guideline for distance is 1 car length per 10 mph, which works out to roughly a 1.5 - 2 second gap regardless of speed because the gap increases with the speed increase.
Good morning Winchell,
We all take on an acceptance of risk just pulling out of the driveway. I assess the conditions of the road, weather, traffic and myself most importantly before hopping on the bike or in the car.


https://news.berkeley.edu/2015/05/29/motorcycle-lanesplitting-report/

"The data used in the UC Berkeley SafeTREC report included details about the manner in which lane-splitting occurred, such as speed of vehicles, time of day and the kinds of helmets used. Reports also included information about any injuries sustained.

“It’s important to note that from the data in our study, we are unable to estimate the risk of getting into a collision in the first place,” said Rice. “What we can do is look at motorcycle collisions that have occurred, and determine whether lane-splitting poses a greater risk of injury to riders, and whether the manner in which riders were lane-splitting was predictive of particular injury types.”

Compared with other motorcyclists, lane-splitting motorcyclists were more likely to ride on weekdays and during commute hours, use better helmets,and travel at lower speeds. Lane-splitting motorcyclists were also less likely to have been using alcohol and less likely to have been carrying a passenger.

Also compared with other motorcyclists involved in a collision, lane-splitting riders were less likely to suffer head injury (9 percent versus 17 percent), torso injury (19 percent versus 29 percent) and fatal injury (1.2 percent versus 3 percent).

Most of the motorcycle lane-splitters – about 69 percent – exceeded the speed of surrounding traffic by about 15 mph or less. But about 14 percent of lane-splitters traveled at least 25 mph faster than surrounding vehicles.

“It is clear that the greater the speed differential, the more dangerous it is, so as obvious as the advice may be, slow down to lower the risk of injury,” said Rice."



Appreciate everyone's comments on drafting or otherwise. Adds food for thought in our next travels.

JD
 

Donncada

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Tell me about it... we're looking to get out of CA just as soon as we can find suitable employment elsewhere! Anyone hiring??? ;) I mean c'mon... I drive a jeep... that should say something about my intelligence :CWL:

There are those who pass reasonably and with consideration and that works. Unfortunately there just aren't that many considerate people in CA (either in cars or on bikes!) :punch:
Yeah! I definitely prefer to arrive at work before 7AM. The ratio of idiots on the road is far less than rush hours.

JD
 

Shots

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John, I certainly wouldn't say that lane splitting necessarily increases the risk of injury. Generally it's done at fairly low speed in stopped/creeping traffic. Slow speed generally don't result in serious injury My concern is only that it's dangerous by shear nature of the confined space. You need an entire lane to safely operate a vehicle (I don't care how many wheels it has 2 -18). A perfect example of that was made by Eric a few posts ago:
".... I got ran into by a girl on a bike when another rider got on the freeway and cut across lanes to split traffic and ran into the girl who was already splitting traffic, pushing her into my car......."
Had she had a full lane to maneuver she likely could have avoided the crash altogether. Add to that risk, the people in cars who aren't paying attention and may drift in front of you, or turn in front of you. The result is it's just not a safe thing to do. You have nowhere to go if someone does something stupid, or something (an animal, pedestrian, etc) darts out from between the line of vehicles.
 

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I'm pretty sure that every study done on lane splitting has determined that it is safer for the motorcyclist, and if done properly (no more than 15 mph above the speed of traffic) it is safe for everyone else on the road as well.
I had it done to me one time on I70 (Ohio). Yeah, I'm that bitch that opened my car door in stop traffic so you couldn't go by:like:
 

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I've seen that done more than once. Not that I condone such things, but I've seen that, and people moving their car over as close as they can to the line to close the gap.
 

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One time on I-25 in Denver I was stopped in traffic and in my mirror I saw a truck coming up very fast. I dipped into the spot between the cars and took off just as I heard the screech of tires then the crash. I was about 5 vehicles up and I had some assholes trying to block me from getting by but also other assholes not letting me back into traffic. Not sure why people feel the need to be assholes.
Because if I'm stuck in traffic, why do you feel the need to "do your own thing"? Motorcyclist whine and cry that they deserve the same road, but (in my experience) they are usually the first to break all the rules like lane splitting, weaving in and out of traffic at dangerous speeds, and not obeying speed limits. And yes, I used to ride one, but not anymore. It's just too dangerous with inattentive driver's anymore.
 

Donncada

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John, I certainly wouldn't say that lane splitting necessarily increases the risk of injury. Generally it's done at fairly low speed in stopped/creeping traffic. Slow speed generally don't result in serious injury My concern is only that it's dangerous by shear nature of the confined space. You need an entire lane to safely operate a vehicle (I don't care how many wheels it has 2 -18). A perfect example of that was made by Eric a few posts ago:
".... I got ran into by a girl on a bike when another rider got on the freeway and cut across lanes to split traffic and ran into the girl who was already splitting traffic, pushing her into my car......."
Had she had a full lane to maneuver she likely could have avoided the crash altogether. Add to that risk, the people in cars who aren't paying attention and may drift in front of you, or turn in front of you. The result is it's just not a safe thing to do. You have nowhere to go if someone does something stupid, or something (an animal, pedestrian, etc) darts out from between the line of vehicles.
I totally agree with you Wenchell.

Just riding there is inherent risk--I take on that risk as acceptable and for myself only. Every bike I owned I took off the passenger pegs. "Sorry, not legal to carry you!"

I am going to infer from Eric's description that traffic was at or near the speed limit the for the rider to cut across lanes and they didn't check their six. I check my mirror for bikes splitting the lane for that very reason. I'm just not comfortable splitting the HOV at those speeds and I always duck behind cars at entry/exit points as that is the worst spot to be splitting lanes with cars entering and exiting. On the street--cars have to be stopped and boxed in.

Just as a matter of context--I used to teach advanced motorcycle safety. Ride within your own comfort level and thank you for your point of view.

JD
 
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liquids

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Y'all need to get the heck out of those cities. I couldn't do it on a daily basis, and it drives me nuts when I have to do it on rare occasions. I actually picked an oncologist that's about 30 minutes further from me to avoid going into a city for the closer one. I don't know how you handle major city traffic. Small city traffic is annoying enough. I'll take my 2 lane, where a traffic jam is a row of cars/trucks backed up behind a tractor, or a few backed up waiting to pass a buggy.
You're in NE Ohio, so you may have seen our situation in MI or heard of it. Every summer Friday afternoon starting about 3pm there is a logjam of traffic out of the Detroit area heading "up north" for vacationland. It doesn't start in Detroit, but in its northern suburbs. (I used to watch it from the 8th floor of Chrysler headquarters.) Same thing on the way back from "up north" Sunday afternoons. Heavy traffic for at least 120 miles, in other words WAY out of cityville, and if you slow down or decrease the gap in front of you, everyone behind you hates your guts. And if you actually drive the same speed as everyone else, everyone stays safer. (Don't make me cite this. Look it up for yourself if you don't believe it.) All I'm saying is that the opportunity to choose drafting over visibility is a regular thing around here.
 

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Good morning Winchell,
We all take on an acceptance of risk just pulling out of the driveway. I assess the conditions of the road, weather, traffic and myself most importantly before hopping on the bike or in the car.


https://news.berkeley.edu/2015/05/29/motorcycle-lanesplitting-report/

"The data used in the UC Berkeley SafeTREC report included details about the manner in which lane-splitting occurred, such as speed of vehicles, time of day and the kinds of helmets used. Reports also included information about any injuries sustained.

“It’s important to note that from the data in our study, we are unable to estimate the risk of getting into a collision in the first place,” said Rice. “What we can do is look at motorcycle collisions that have occurred, and determine whether lane-splitting poses a greater risk of injury to riders, and whether the manner in which riders were lane-splitting was predictive of particular injury types.”

Compared with other motorcyclists, lane-splitting motorcyclists were more likely to ride on weekdays and during commute hours, use better helmets,and travel at lower speeds. Lane-splitting motorcyclists were also less likely to have been using alcohol and less likely to have been carrying a passenger.

Also compared with other motorcyclists involved in a collision, lane-splitting riders were less likely to suffer head injury (9 percent versus 17 percent), torso injury (19 percent versus 29 percent) and fatal injury (1.2 percent versus 3 percent).

Most of the motorcycle lane-splitters – about 69 percent – exceeded the speed of surrounding traffic by about 15 mph or less. But about 14 percent of lane-splitters traveled at least 25 mph faster than surrounding vehicles.

“It is clear that the greater the speed differential, the more dangerous it is, so as obvious as the advice may be, slow down to lower the risk of injury,” said Rice."



Appreciate everyone's comments on drafting or otherwise. Adds food for thought in our next travels.

JD
Lol. Apparently Berkeley wasn't traveling the same highways I was when I lived down there. Well over half the guys lame splitting were going significantly faster than surrounding traffic. Guys have a death wish. There's a reason why the local EMTs call them organ donors. I ride all the time and could never understand how those guys thought it was a good idea.
 

Shots

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You're in NE Ohio, so you may have seen our situation in MI or heard of it. Every summer Friday afternoon starting about 3pm there is a logjam of traffic out of the Detroit area heading "up north" for vacationland. It doesn't start in Detroit, but in its northern suburbs. ...
Funny enough, I just went to northern Michigan about a week or two ago. I've got family up on Saginaw Bay (between Tawas City and Standish). I always travel midweek. It's just easier that way (as longs as you avoid rush hour). I take US-23 up/back, but I'm told that if you take I-75 you'll hit outrageous traffic around and hour on each side Detroit. That kinda surprised me, because everyone makes it sound like Detroit is a ghost town now. Apparently somebody still works there.
 
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Buster86

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Drafting is for race cars on race tracks. Following that closely to someone on public roads is dangerous, and the effectiveness is marginal. Not worth the risk.
Not to be a kill joy, but....
At 70 mph you cover 102.62 feet every second. If you're less than 100' from the back of another vehicle while trying to save 1 mpg and they straddle a piece of debris, you've got less than second to react. I'll round it and give you the full second to react though. Unfortunately studies have shown that the average perception reaction time (PRT) while driving is 1.5 seconds, which means you'll hit the object before you even have time to attempt to avoid it. Don't confuse PRT with simple reaction time. PRT takes into account that while driving you have other tasks requiring your attention. You need to see the threat, perceive it as a threat, and then take action. This typically takes 1.5 seconds though some people are a little faster/slower (1.2 - 1.8).

So with the boring numbers out of the way. If you're truly concerned about fuel efficiency the easiest way to achieve it is by slowing down. To be clear, I drive slow just because I'm not in a hurry not for efficiency. I rarely drive the interstate but I recently wen to MI. As I typically do, I set my cruise at 65, stayed in the right lane and let all the speeders zig and zag and get stressed out. I just turn on some tunes and enjoy the ride without having to brake, accelerate, and weave all the time. At 65 mph I'm only 5 under the limit, and by staying in the right lane everyone can easily pass me.
The unexpected result of going slightly slower, and not having to constantly adjust my speed was 26.7 mpg. No that's not a typo, yes it got over 25 mpg even with a 2" lift. No drafting, no games manipulating the "current' mpg counter. Here's a photo of my trip screen. After 168.5 miles, and a bit under 3 hours, I averaged 26.7 mpg. That was actually roughly the half way point when I stopped at Cabela's, but the second half had the same result. If you're actually concerned about saving a few mpg, reducing your speed 5-10 mph will save you more fuel than tailgating.... oops I mean "drafting".

mpg road trip.jpg
LOL. I'm really shocked at the controversy over this. Obviously you do not have the auto cruise control which both sets the distance and has collision avoidance built in. In what way from the picture does it look like I am trying to run the Indy 500 by staying on someone's bumper? I can see you had a point to prove, sorry you wasted your time.
 

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So why is it "obvious" there is no ACC active on mine? With the cruise set at 65 it doesn't need to adjust for distance and repeatedly slow me down because I'm not catching up to slower traffic. It does it all the time at 75-80. If ACC is active and you're driving 65, when a car doing 80 merges in front of you ACC won't adjust your speed, because the gap is increasing between the two of you (test it). That is unless they cut you off, but then ACC or not, I'm hitting the brake manually.

Regarding your picture, and what I was trying to convey.
For starters I wasn't trying to offend you, or "call you out". I never said you were "trying to run the Indy 500". I've seen people get a lot closer than you. That said, Yes I did say that drafting is for race cars. My point being that not only is your following distance too close, but it's not saving you near as much fuel as slowing down would. You're average in that photo is 16.1 mpg, and your current is 19 mpg while driving 75 MPH. I got 26.7 mpg by setting my cruise at 65 MPH. I understand that my Sahara has a different gear ratio, but that actually means you'll benefit more from going slower than I do.
My point: Going slower is more efficient than "drafting" at the distances you're able to follow someone on the open road. Now, if you're bump drafting like a race car, there is an argument to be made for drafting. Following traffic closely is unsafe and ineffective at saving fuel. Ergo, drafting is for race cars.

PS. Don't rely on ACC to keep you from rear-ending someone or striking an object in the road. I've seen a lot of crashes where people have it and still crash. The Jeep my apply the brakes for you, but a skidding tire doesn't stop any faster because the computer locked them up. At 75 MPH, you need a minimum of 250 feet to skid to a stop, and that's with an instant reaction.

ftc.jpg
 
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Buster86

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So why is it "obvious" there is no ACC active on mine? With the cruise set at 65 it doesn't need to adjust for distance and repeatedly slow me down because I'm not catching up to slower traffic. It does it all the time at 75-80. If ACC is active and you're driving 65, when a car doing 80 merges in front of you ACC won't adjust your speed, because the gap is increasing between the two of you (test it). That is unless they cut you off, but then ACC or not, I'm hitting the brake manually.

Regarding your picture, and what I was trying to convey.
For starters I wasn't trying to offend you, or "call you out". I never said you were "trying to run the Indy 500". I've seen people get a lot closer than you. That said, Yes I did say that drafting is for race cars. My point being that not only is your following distance too close, but it's not saving you near as much fuel as slowing down would. You're average in that photo is 16.1 mpg, and your current is 19 mpg while driving 75 MPH. I got 26.7 mpg by setting my cruise at 65 MPH. I understand that my Sahara has a different gear ratio, but that actually means you'll benefit more from going slower than I do.
My point: Going slower is more efficient than "drafting" at the distances you're able to follow someone on the open road. Now, if you're bump drafting like a race car, there is an argument to be made for drafting. Following traffic closely is unsafe and ineffective at saving fuel. Ergo, drafting is for race cars.

PS. Don't rely on ACC to keep you from rear-ending someone or striking an object in the road. I've seen a lot of crashes where people have it and still crash. The Jeep my apply the brakes for you, but a skidding tire doesn't stop any faster because the computer locked them up. At 75 MPH, you need a minimum of 250 feet to skid to a stop, and that's with an instant reaction.

ftc.jpg
Look, this wasn't meant to be a post on how to achieve the best fuel mileage overall. I understand going 10 mph under the speed limit will obviously yield better results. My average is 16.1 because I don't reset it every time I fill up. I also do a lot of city driving. You said you had a 2 inch lift. What size tires? Gears lower than 4.10? Motor? It's obvious that all these things come into play. Don't waste your time trying to educate people.
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