What should I do? Do I Have A dead M200?

[chevymitchell]

Thanks all for the responses and help so far. This has been good food for thought.

I think I have come to the realization that the issue now with rebuilding will be finding a qualified tech or shop that is confident enough to get the rebuild done right, set lash, blah blah blah. I think you all are right in that the shops I have tried so far are not willing to rebuild but just straight up replace due to limited skill level.

@chevymitchell , Interested in a paid flight out and back plus your rate? LOL. Would be cheaper than all the other prices I have gotten to replace so far. You are the only one willing to rebuild and not replace too. I must be in an area with a drought of skilled rebuilders.

Some follow ups:

- What kits or brands would everyone recommend if I can actually get someone to rebuild this thing? That Yukon kit a good brand? Is there anything that are peoples go-tos?

- Does anyone know of any reputable shops in the NC, GA, SC area who rebuild them by chance? I am willing to trailer this thing some to get this done right.

I am striking out on the rebuild front so far.

The only issue with traveling for this type of work is access to a hydraulic press. I can bring everything else with me.

I’ve been asked to travel quite a bit for axle work but the press is usually the biggest hurdle.

ECGS could do it for you. They’re North of Raleigh.

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[chevymitchell]

Has anyone narrowed this down to the diff?

Just want to make sure someone has looked at the rear wheel bearings. They’re pressed onto the axle shaft itself. These normally go long before the carrier bearings do.

 

[bjm00se]

ECGS could do it for you. They’re North of Raleigh.

ECGS or East Coast Gear Supply, has a solid reputation. Lots of folks with Tacomas and FJs rely on them to supply their diff units.

 

[NPC 20883467]

Yes. I could do it in about 2-3 hours. It’ll be up to who you find out by you and who has the experience. It’s a niche skill.

Why is there such a dearth of competent driveline mechanics? Is there something insanely complex about the incantations needed for building a diff that I don't know about? Seems to me a guy could pave his own road to riches & glory by learning how to build axles...

 

[chevymitchell]

Why is there such a dearth of competent driveline mechanics? Is there something insanely complex about the incantations needed for building a diff that I don't know about? Seems to me a guy could pave his own road to riches & glory by learning how to build axles...

Not really sure. It’s not overly complicated on the surface. It’s when things go wrong, how do you come back from that.

I’ve done pretty well with axle work stuff. It’s paid for a lot of things around here but I’m not inclined to open another shop. I’d rather do it on the weekends and have my normal job.

I did just move from NC to CO… I had a lot more work out there than here. Backwards you’d think but the population density out there helps.

The instructions for re-gearing are on this forum. Anyone can do it. Just a matter of wanting to and then buying/renting the tooling.

 

[JohnnyG]

If the pinion bearings were shot & driven for a while, I'd be concerned the ring & pinion gear surfaces might have developed a bad pattern. I'd probably preemptively change them as well. If it were me, I'd take it apart & assess before buying anything parts-wise. The $400+ master rebuild kit sounds outrageous. At this moment I'm changing everything on a GM 10-bolt, high quality new parts throughout & adding posi, total parts cost is less than $800. Any transmission or machine shop can pull/ press a bearing for $20 or so, I don't have a press but know someone that does.

 

[JohnnyG]

Was thinking about this a little more, my advice doesn't really help a novice that doesn't want to tackle a job like this. There are a few little tests that most people can do if they can put the car on jack stands. A lot of shops don't like to do work that could potentially involve it sitting in a bay waiting for parts, they like the in & out money makers. As mentioned, this could be as simple as wheel bearings. Diagnostic skills vary & some mechanics are crooks so it pays to verify.

If you can get under the car, pull the yoke fore & aft, it should be tight with zero movement. If it moves at all you know for sure the pinion bearings are shot.

If you rotate the yoke lightly back & forth, it should have a very light clunk, that is the backlash. If it's more than just a light clunk, say it moves 1/16-1/8", there's likely a bearing problem.

If you rotate the yoke, it should be smooth with no roughness. Any roughness & your pinion bearing(s) are bad.

If those check out OK, start the car & put it in drive. Listen to the noise to find out where it's coming from. If it around the wheels, you hit the lottery & it's a (relatively) cheap job.

If you're up to taking the diff cover off, you can find out a whole lot more, it would easy to give you guidance as to where to go from there. You could have a high probability of determining all of the parts to buy to make this an easy job to complete quickly & the most cheaply.

 

[MitsJeep]

Has anyone narrowed this down to the diff?

Just want to make sure someone has looked at the rear wheel bearings. They’re pressed onto the axle shaft itself. These normally go long before the carrier bearings do.

This is a good point. I have not verified this with my own ears and eyes yet, but trusted the shop to diag the root cause to be diff. I have also considered pulling the cover myself to verify with my own eyes too since Ive got plenty of fluid at my disposal.

The reason why I feel I have ruled out wheel bearings as well is because I can get the noise to quiet down (inside at least) by inputting just a little bit of throttle. Noise will come back up when decelerating completely or accelerating more than say 4% throttle. Am I correct in that I would hear the wheel bering noise all the time regardless of being on the gas or not?

 

[MitsJeep]

If the pinion bearings were shot & driven for a while, I'd be concerned the ring & pinion gear surfaces might have developed a bad pattern. I'd probably preemptively change them as well. If it were me, I'd take it apart & assess before buying anything parts-wise. The $400+ master rebuild kit sounds outrageous. At this moment I'm changing everything on a GM 10-bolt, high quality new parts throughout & adding posi, total parts cost is less than $800. Any transmission or machine shop can pull/ press a bearing for $20 or so, I don't have a press but know someone that does.

This is my concern as well. I did drive it a bit before really picking up on the noise and before I got concerned, which I regret. I would be interested in changing out the ring and pinion while im there anyways probably.

 

[MitsJeep]

Was thinking about this a little more, my advice doesn't really help a novice that doesn't want to tackle a job like this. There are a few little tests that most people can do if they can put the car on jack stands. A lot of shops don't like to do work that could potentially involve it sitting in a bay waiting for parts, they like the in & out money makers. As mentioned, this could be as simple as wheel bearings. Diagnostic skills vary & some mechanics are crooks so it pays to verify.

If you can get under the car, pull the yoke fore & aft, it should be tight with zero movement. If it moves at all you know for sure the pinion bearings are shot.

If you rotate the yoke lightly back & forth, it should have a very light clunk, that is the backlash. If it's more than just a light clunk, say it moves 1/16-1/8", there's likely a bearing problem.

If you rotate the yoke, it should be smooth with no roughness. Any roughness & your pinion bearing(s) are bad.

If those check out OK, start the car & put it in drive. Listen to the noise to find out where it's coming from. If it around the wheels, you hit the lottery & it's a (relatively) cheap job.

If you're up to taking the diff cover off, you can find out a whole lot more, it would easy to give you guidance as to where to go from there. You could have a high probability of determining all of the parts to buy to make this an easy job to complete quickly & the most cheaply.

I'll try some this later today and see what I come up with, as much as I can.

 

[chevymitchell]

This is a good point. I have not verified this with my own ears and eyes yet, but trusted the shop to diag the root cause to be diff. I have also considered pulling the cover myself to verify with my own eyes too since Ive got plenty of fluid at my disposal.

The reason why I feel I have ruled out wheel bearings as well is because I can get the noise to quiet down (inside at least) by inputting just a little bit of throttle. Noise will come back up when decelerating completely or accelerating more than say 4% throttle. Am I correct in that I would hear the wheel bering noise all the time regardless of being on the gas or not?

Yeah, it would be more consistent. Just a box to check as you work through this issue.

 

[MitsJeep]

Well after a few months, I finally got my Diff fixed and got my jeep back yesterday. Really want to thank all those who gave input, especially @chevymitchell , and offered advice. It was the pinion bearing. The plastic type ball bearing component had torn itself up beyond usefulness and started to chew the rest of the bearings up of course via metal content transfer as well. Got a good local guy (after a lot of talking to other people) to replace the carrier bearings, pinion bearing, and while we were in there the axle bearings on each side. Best of all, it cost me 700 for labor plus a master kit with axle bearings. It’s debated it also cost me my sanity as well as I had to go vehicle-less for months on end without a jeep . I went with the master kit from ECGS with the upgraded tapered bearing instead of the ball style. Hoping to get more miles out of this one. The biggest problem is finding someone to tackle it who is competent for sure. I spoke to a lot of incompetence on the path to reach competence here locally.

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