What should I do? Do I Have A dead M200?

[MitsJeep]

Hey all, hoping some of you with the wealth of experience that exists here can maybe help me with figuring out.

Essentially heres what has happened:
About 93,000 miles on the odo. My rear diff started whining and whirring, gradually getting louder over time. I was able to get it evaluated and the basic analysis right now is that I need a new entire axle, differential, etc to the tune of about $5400 per a quote. They say the reason why, is that the diff pinion bearing is worn out and done for, and that to ensure proper repair, the whole unit needs to be replaced rather than repaired components due to the wear to all the components that have been destroyed and flakes in the diff fluid. Ive changed the fluid in my diffs regularly and on schedule.

I have a Sport JLU, auto trans. Its a M200 in the rear on this one, and through this I have come to learn about the terrible design of Advantec Series M200 and M220, in that the bearing design is ball related instead of the traditional tapered roller bearing that is in the beefier Rubicons and etc.

So now I dont know what to do:

- Do I get a shop to replace with the same brand new unit and send it for another 70k miles and hope it doesnt fail?

- Do I get a new m200 and replace with the upgrade kits that are out there which convert the dumb style bearning to the tapered bearing style and then install it?

- Do/ Can I axle swap this thing and put a dana 44 in it or a rubicon rear axle in it? What are the implications here? Am I going to need to reprogram all the computer models and such to get this to work, along with brake lines, sensors, etc?


Whats my best course of action here? This is my daily at the moment, but am flexible. I do enjoy my jeep, and I would hate to get rid of it and dump it if it came to that. Its also paid off.

Any help you all can give me I am grateful for and appreciate, as you all have helped me a lot reading through all the information here.

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[The Last Cowboy]

Get an M220 narrow out of a Sport/Willys/Sahara with low miles. Then drive for another 93k. Unless you want to get on the slippery slope of a serious build.

 

[chevymitchell]

Hey all, hoping some of you with the wealth of experience that exists here can maybe help me with figuring out.

Essentially heres what has happened:
About 93,000 miles on the odo. My rear diff started whining and whirring, gradually getting louder over time. I was able to get it evaluated and the basic analysis right now is that I need a new entire axle, differential, etc to the tune of about $5400 per a quote. They say the reason why, is that the diff pinion bearing is worn out and done for, and that to ensure proper repair, the whole unit needs to be replaced rather than repaired components due to the wear to all the components that have been destroyed and flakes in the diff fluid. Ive changed the fluid in my diffs regularly and on schedule.

I have a Sport JLU, auto trans. Its a M200 in the rear on this one, and through this I have come to learn about the terrible design of Advantec Series M200 and M220, in that the bearing design is ball related instead of the traditional tapered roller bearing that is in the beefier Rubicons and etc.

So now I dont know what to do:

- Do I get a shop to replace with the same brand new unit and send it for another 70k miles and hope it doesnt fail?

- Do I get a new m200 and replace with the upgrade kits that are out there which convert the dumb style bearning to the tapered bearing style and then install it?

- Do/ Can I axle swap this thing and put a dana 44 in it or a rubicon rear axle in it? What are the implications here? Am I going to need to reprogram all the computer models and such to get this to work, along with brake lines, sensors, etc?


Whats my best course of action here? This is my daily at the moment to we are a vehicle down, but I do have a little flexibility. I do love my jeep, and I would hate to get rid of it and dump it if it came to that. Its also paid off.

Any help you all can give me I am grateful for and appreciate, as you all have helped me a lot reading through all the information here.

Best course of action is to just put a Master Kit in it and roll on for another 93k miles. You DO NOT need to replace the whole thing.

Master Kit and the labor should be about $600-$700 bucks parts and labor. I only charge $1000 to regear both front and rear, so it should be much cheaper than that.

The Rubi's pinion tail bearing uses a double roller ball bearing, too. Don't let them tell you it uses tapered because it doesn't. I'm also not sure why people don't like the double ball setup. It's performs perfectly fine. People break them when they over-TQ the pinion. They just want a way to screw up the pinion preload with less risk. Lol.

Rubi axles are wider. Narrow ones are available. You won't need to go that route. Just install a Master Kit and roll on.

 

[swampflyer]

Best course of action is to just put a Master Kit in it and roll on for another 93k miles. You DO NOT need to replace the whole thing.

Master Kit and the labor should be about $600-$700 bucks parts and labor. I only charge $1000 to regear both front and rear, so it should be much cheaper than that.

The Rubi's pinion tail bearing uses a double roller ball bearing, too. Don't let them tell you it uses tapered because it doesn't. I'm also not sure why people don't like the double ball setup. It's performs perfectly fine. People break them when they over-TQ the pinion. They just want a way to screw up the pinion preload with less risk. Lol.

Rubi axles are wider. Narrow ones are available. You won't need to go that route. Just install a Master Kit and roll on.

or if you are of mind throw a 60 semi float 40 spline eaton locker and call it done for a long time.

 

[MitsJeep]

Get an M220 narrow out of a Sport/Willys/Sahara with low miles. Then drive for another 93k. Unless you want to get on the slippery slope of a serious build.

How do I know the one I would be looking at would be a narrow M220 specifically? Are they stamped specifically or would I straight up need to measure?

 

[MitsJeep]

Best course of action is to just put a Master Kit in it and roll on for another 93k miles. You DO NOT need to replace the whole thing.

Master Kit and the labor should be about $600-$700 bucks parts and labor. I only charge $1000 to regear both front and rear, so it should be much cheaper than that.

The Rubi's pinion tail bearing uses a double roller ball bearing, too. Don't let them tell you it uses tapered because it doesn't. I'm also not sure why people don't like the double ball setup. It's performs perfectly fine. People break them when they over-TQ the pinion. They just want a way to screw up the pinion preload with less risk. Lol.

Rubi axles are wider. Narrow ones are available. You won't need to go that route. Just install a Master Kit and roll on.

Interesting. So I could buy something like this kit? I am not well versed on diffs and such so bear with me. https://www.yukongear.com/products/...Q9pMH780uOKysz2ebbQ0eavEVsJuWNRoQXV85SY2joX3m

 

[MitsJeep]

Interesting. So I could buy something like this kit? I am not well versed on diffs and such so bear with me. https://www.yukongear.com/products/...Q9pMH780uOKysz2ebbQ0eavEVsJuWNRoQXV85SY2joX3m

Essentially you are saying that this is rebuildable with someone with the proper know how and a new master kit from say, Yukon for example?

 

[chevymitchell]

Interesting. So I could buy something like this kit? I am not well versed on diffs and such so bear with me. https://www.yukongear.com/products/...Q9pMH780uOKysz2ebbQ0eavEVsJuWNRoQXV85SY2joX3m

Yeah. That’ll let you rebuild it. It’s easy enough to clean the tubes and even clean the spider gears up with everything apart. This isn’t really a big deal or big job. Just depends on the shop doing the work. Usually, failures like this are cash cows so be careful with who you talk to.

 

[chevymitchell]

Essentially you are saying that this is rebuildable with someone with the proper know how and a new master kit from say, Yukon for example?

Yes. I could do it in about 2-3 hours. It’ll be up to who you find out by you and who has the experience. It’s a niche skill.

 

[ym0bc1]

I'm also not sure why people don't like the double ball setup.

From what I see, the justification is "ball bearings have less contact surface". Quoted from tapered bearing vendor like trailforged.

I think this is intentionally misleading - ball bearing's race is concave and the contact surface should be more or less same.

 

[The Last Cowboy]

You would need to specify to make sure they get a narrow 44, all of which will have an LSD. The lower miles the better. Finding it on a donor vehicle so that you can see that it has low miles, and that it is from something other than a Rubicon will help. I would only want one from a vehicle that had a front end collision. I don't care if the part has a warranty/guarantee, I don't like doing work twice for no reason.

Also, if there is no damage to the bearing surfaces on your current differential, there's no reason that it can't be rebuilt as @chevymitchell is suggesting. But it sounds like you're at the mercy of the word of the shop where it is now, unless you know what you're looking at.

Or, you could find a set of front and rear Rubicon or Late model (24+) Willys axles that someone took off a brand new Jeep for a build. However, this is far less common than it was a few years ago, since you can buy a brand new Jeep with 35s.

 

[SoK66]

Hey all, hoping some of you with the wealth of experience that exists here can maybe help me with figuring out.

Essentially heres what has happened:
About 93,000 miles on the odo. My rear diff started whining and whirring, gradually getting louder over time. I was able to get it evaluated and the basic analysis right now is that I need a new entire axle, differential, etc to the tune of about $5400 per a quote. They say the reason why, is that the diff pinion bearing is worn out and done for, and that to ensure proper repair, the whole unit needs to be replaced rather than repaired components due to the wear to all the components that have been destroyed and flakes in the diff fluid. Ive changed the fluid in my diffs regularly and on schedule.

I have a Sport JLU, auto trans. Its a M200 in the rear on this one, and through this I have come to learn about the terrible design of Advantec Series M200 and M220, in that the bearing design is ball related instead of the traditional tapered roller bearing that is in the beefier Rubicons and etc.

So now I dont know what to do:

- Do I get a shop to replace with the same brand new unit and send it for another 70k miles and hope it doesnt fail?

- Do I get a new m200 and replace with the upgrade kits that are out there which convert the dumb style bearning to the tapered bearing style and then install it?

- Do/ Can I axle swap this thing and put a dana 44 in it or a rubicon rear axle in it? What are the implications here? Am I going to need to reprogram all the computer models and such to get this to work, along with brake lines, sensors, etc?


Whats my best course of action here? This is my daily at the moment, but am flexible. I do enjoy my jeep, and I would hate to get rid of it and dump it if it came to that. Its also paid off.

Any help you all can give me I am grateful for and appreciate, as you all have helped me a lot reading through all the information here.

Unless the bearing races spun in the housing you just need an overhaul, that’s the pinion and carrier bearings replaced. You may not even have to replace the ring & pinion. It will cost far less than a complete new axle assembly. My guess is the shop doesn’t have a qualified axle tech.

 

[wibornz]

Best course of action is to just put a Master Kit in it and roll on for another 93k miles. You DO NOT need to replace the whole thing.

Master Kit and the labor should be about $600-$700 bucks parts and labor. I only charge $1000 to regear both front and rear, so it should be much cheaper than that.

The Rubi's pinion tail bearing uses a double roller ball bearing, too. Don't let them tell you it uses tapered because it doesn't. I'm also not sure why people don't like the double ball setup. It's performs perfectly fine. People break them when they over-TQ the pinion. They just want a way to screw up the pinion preload with less risk. Lol.

Rubi axles are wider. Narrow ones are available. You won't need to go that route. Just install a Master Kit and roll on.

He always gives solid advice. I would think that you should be able to find a rear axle from a car scrap yard pretty easy. There has to be an axle sitting somewhere that will bolt right up into your Jeep from a Jeep that had an air bag deployment or some type of accident that did not damage the rear axle. Most car scrap yard type places have a network where they can search for specific parts. I would start there. The JL wrangler has been around for almost 8 years now and I would think locating a M200 axle would be easy.

I have bought Rubicon m220 rear axles from a local place the same day I called them. They buy the axles from Jeep out of test vehicles from Jeep. They are basically new in the crate. I paid $2500 for them. I would think a M200 would be much cheaper..

I could call for you on Monday if you want me to, but I think you can easily find one local to you also.

 

[JLJKLJ]

My guess is the shop doesn’t have a qualified axle tech.

I think you nailed it. Since they don't have the know-how to rebuild the axle and be confident in the work they're just defaulting to put in a new axle. They'll make more money and your jeep will work but there are better ways discussed above. Just gotta find a competent shop.

 

[MitsJeep]

Thanks all for the responses and help so far. This has been good food for thought.

I think I have come to the realization that the issue now with rebuilding will be finding a qualified tech or shop that is confident enough to get the rebuild done right, set lash, blah blah blah. I think you all are right in that the shops I have tried so far are not willing to rebuild but just straight up replace due to limited skill level.

@chevymitchell , Interested in a paid flight out and back plus your rate? LOL. Would be cheaper than all the other prices I have gotten to replace so far. You are the only one willing to rebuild and not replace too. I must be in an area with a drought of skilled rebuilders.

Some follow ups:

- What kits or brands would everyone recommend if I can actually get someone to rebuild this thing? That Yukon kit a good brand? Is there anything that are peoples go-tos?

- Does anyone know of any reputable shops in the NC, GA, SC area who rebuild them by chance? I am willing to trailer this thing some to get this done right.

I am striking out on the rebuild front so far.

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