Aren't you the one that said:
If your main desire is to to go off road at high speeds then you really should avoid vehicles with a solid front axle. That's a SFA's Achilles' Heel.
That's not even close to the 0-60 performance of a 392 Wrangler.
Assuming, of course, we're not seeing the 3rd take after the first two rolled!
Exactly, how many people say they went off road and when I ask where, they say I went to a dirt road. Then don't understand why I stare at them like this.
If you drive off trail you're an asshole and directly responsible for loss of access. Dirt roads are the only off road available period. The rubicon trail is a country road. A modified JLU can absolutely do what a stock Mojave can. We own both, and property in the desert. Both get driven there on a regular basis at speeds many on this forum won't even do on road. The suspensions aren't significantly different. The front suspension is identical which is why the control arms, sway links, etc are the same part numbers. The rear suspension on the JL is actually better setup for jumps at speed as the gladiator got the rams long as hell LCAs paired with super short uppers. The result is massive pinion dive and wheel hop, especially bad when cycling the suspension at speed. Put some ADS triple tube bypass shocks and hydraulic bump stops on the JLU and it would outperform a stock Mojave easily. Why the JLU would need long arms but the JT wouldn't is beyond me? And if we are considering a simple shock change more than mildly modified I must be on the wrong forum.
Have you even driven a Mojave in the desert, or just read hype on forums? It really isn't impressive at all compared to many other desert machines. It is better than a stock JLU, but not by that much. A stock JLU with an off the shelf set of King shocks could match it.
Since you opened the can of worms, everything from the muscle car era was slow period. The '67 corvette L88 and '68 charger R/T 426 were the only 2 to break 5s 0-60 at 4.7 and 4.8s respectively. And yet the 392 does it in 4.5s on 35" all terrains? Yes there's been 60 years of advancement, but that's a Jeep not a sports car or muscle car. The model s plaid and lucid aire dream both do it in under 2s. Not to mention the OP literally said fast OFF ROAD. How's that 911 after a few miles of washboard road at freeway speed or a 3' jump at 100mph? No the Jeep won't hang with a Porsche on the track, but it would come a hell of a lot closer than the Porsche on the rubicon. No the Jeep isn't hanging with trophy trucks without major modifications, but freeway speed in the desert is easy and in my experience the JLU is better there than the 2dr Bronco and every bit as good as the 4dr stock for stock. Short arm, Honda civic style IFS is no better in the desert than a solid axle. People see trophy trucks, ultra4 cars, etc and think their stock Bronco has the same IFS. Go to a raptor, trx, or wide track conversion on a tundra, Silverado, etc and really good shocks and the JLU will fall behind mostly because of wheelbase.
I agree on driving off trail and i never suggested doing that when there are marked trails and that’s all that’s allowed to drive on. Even i know lots of the desert in the west is open public land and free to roam. Also, for the vast majority of the country, a dirt road and a trail aren’t the same thing. Calling the Rubicon a country road doesn’t make it one.
Nope i haven’t. Haven’t read forum hype either. I’ve watched hours of videos and studied the suspension design, and i design suspensions for a living, so i understand what im looking at. If a simple set of shocks would make a JLU ride well at speed in the desert, why does basically everyone that wants to do that end up disappointed and give up? I have yet to see anyone be successful and happy with theirs in the desert, at speed.
So, I have owned two JT Mojaves and at the same time have owned a JLU with King shocks and I have decades of experience desert racing. And you haven't even driven a JT Mojave in the desert. I argue that the design of the Mojave is a little better than the design of the JLU, but that the implementation of that design falls short.
I’ll concede that you and @Zandcwhite’s experience with the platform outweighs my design experience and building and analysis of other platforms. Implementation can definitely make a design fall short. I still have a hard time understanding why you and @Zandcwhite have figured out how to make a JLU perform and no one else seems to. From everything that i have ever designed or built, the suspension layout of the JLU shouldn’t work well at speed without some decent changes. Maybe there’s something in the actual build that makes it better that i haven’t seen, or maybe im comparing it to a built long travel full size pickup and no one else is. That would make a miscommunication of scale make sense.
My comment was, relative to what’s out there, a Jeep isn’t fast, and in my opinion, isn’t a good choice as a starting point to go fast. Driving a vehicle “fast“ for the conditions doesn’t make it truly fast in my mind. We can both pick scenarios where a vehicle isn’t designed to be but that doesn’t change what I interpret fast to be. The other scenarios in your can of worms list don’t seem relevant to my definition of a fast vehicle. But on that we will disagree it seems.
