The "hate" on Jeeps + Speed

[2nd 392]

You had to build a CJ that was fast, you can just buy a JL that's fast but it's only faster than corvettes before 2000 so it's slow now...or whatever we've "learned" from this thread.

My MD was quicker POWR-Weight ,5.38’s and one like

That overpowered and ruined it. It seemed like a bright idea with visions of grandeur when the L-79 wore out.
Fueled by the hops and a buddy desperately needing a pre smog numbered performance short block and had a Bow Tie 350 short block he couldn’t use with the upcoming smog law change.
His 75 PU got well over twice the HP with mpg going from ~8 - 12. After a couple years my Jeep was sold to a guy that wanted the engine for his 30’s rod, put the rod’s NA Chevy in the Jeep. He got 2 good vehicles…… I bought a new 89 Bronco I never liked and wouldn’t get out of it’s own way, and an 85 mph speed limiter, at 9 mpg. Total Fail

Sponsored

 

[jeepingib]

Who cares how fast? At least you were on South Padre in your Jeep. That in and of itself puts you in the "fast lane!"

The only beach I like better is the run down Padre Island from Mustang Island State Park to the Mansfield Cut, behind the Aransas National Wildlife Refuge. 60 miles of beautiful beach/water mostly to you and your group (and a few sand rails and wetbacks). That's where I earned flight wings in my first Raptor. Nothing like crossing the equator or into the Arctic circle, but as much fun as I've ever had 4-wheeling anywhere.

From the South I went north to the jetty many, many times. But I have only driven a couple of miles on N. Padre. I didn't have time to go the full distance. I heard that it's a little less tamed.

 

[Mudduck]

Why is it that a lot of people somewhat throw "hate" or "shade" on people who want a Jeep, but also want to drive fast?
Just my thoughts - no hate , no wanting to argue, just wanting to explain why Speed + Jeeps aren't a bad thing.

!00% NONE of this will be possible without running "AMSOIL's WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU ON ABOUT SIGNATURE SERIES"

 

[AskBin]

Up until 2023, the gti had the same 0-60 as the v6 Jeep, but it's fast? Faster in the corners obviously, but not so much in dirt and atrocious in the rocks.

please... stop moving the goalposts man... "fast" is subjective. EVERYTHING CAN GO 60MPH ON A SMOOTH DIRT ROAD

if you want to talk fast go look at sportbikes, if you want to go 60 on gravel and dirt get something with IFS because it will do that task better from the factory. if you want to rock crawl you get a solid axle. do you want to push a jeep to its limits at 60 down a dirt road? sure itll do it. so will my moms gmc terrain, whats your angle? that a jeep will do bomb down fire roads? nobodys denying that, its jsut not going to do it as well as nearly any other option for the same ammount of money.

NO IFS will not perform on rocks as well as a jeep, YOU brought that up, nobody else was talking about crawling lmao. if you want to drive like your a rally car driver, maybe look at stuff similar to a rally car?

 

[Remorseless]

 

[jeepingib]

FFS the original poster was talking about going 60 mph OFF ROAD. That doesn't mean fire roads, gravel roads, or whatever. Those have one thing in common, the word road in them. Why, because roads have been groomed and are roughly maintained to some standard. But there are places like dunes, and trails through the desert, where it is NOT UNREASONABLE to go fast off of a road. While not as ideal as an IFS rig. Our Jeeps can be made to handle this to an acceptable degree. Hell SCORE Class 3 still has rigs that compete with a SFA, the Bronco of Team 302 and others are very competitive and have won the class against IFS in some races as recently as 2024.

 

[Zandcwhite]

please... stop moving the goalposts man... "fast" is subjective. EVERYTHING CAN GO 60MPH ON A SMOOTH DIRT ROAD

if you want to talk fast go look at sportbikes, if you want to go 60 on gravel and dirt get something with IFS because it will do that task better from the factory. if you want to rock crawl you get a solid axle. do you want to push a jeep to its limits at 60 down a dirt road? sure itll do it. so will my moms gmc terrain, whats your angle? that a jeep will do bomb down fire roads? nobodys denying that, its jsut not going to do it as well as nearly any other option for the same ammount of money.

NO IFS will not perform on rocks as well as a jeep, YOU brought that up, nobody else was talking about crawling lmao. if you want to drive like your a rally car driver, maybe look at stuff similar to a rally car?

Nobody moved the goalposts the OP set aside from...all of you? Nobody said track car fast or corvette fast or any of the other nonsense but y'all. Nobody said smooth dirt road. The desert washes and dunes are far from smooth. I assumed the OP asked about Jeeps AND going fast because he wants the solid axle capabilities and durability on harder trails and rocks AND wants to go fast off road at times? Nobody argued that the Jeep was a better choice for the desert than a raptoror or trx. If you can afford a dedicated desert rig and a rock rig, by all means run both. For the average person that's just not a reality. And the idea that IFS is better in the desert is only parroted by those with no experience there. Of course if you're talking wide arm, long travel paired with really good shocks like a raptor or ultra4 car or trophy truck it is. If you're talking stock Bronco with short arms and cheap shocks it really isn't. I've run dozens of rigs through the desert including 10+ bone stock. 2dr anything is crap as the wheelbase just isn't stable at speed. The jlur with xr and the 4dr Bronco Sasquatch badlands are pretty much the same. Both massively hindered by shocks. The base 4x4 f150 is nearly as bad because of the shocks too. After 20 miles of washboard I felt like I had shaken baby syndrome. That thing would hop so much it would lose traction on the steep uphill sections. The stock Mojave on the other hand was nice and smooth on the same section of trail. Even at 50% higher speeds. All you need to go faster than most ever will over rough terrain is a shock upgrade. Sure the Bronco would be just as good with a shock upgrade, but still a lard ass on tight trails and limiting in the rocks. To make an ifs rig truly better requires a long travel mid arm kit and shocks at a minimum. Of course then you've made it 6" wider so it's even worse on tight trails and you spent $15k doing it. Put that same $15k into the Jeeps suspension and you're talking long arms and bypass shocks and hydraulic bump stops. At that point you're Jeep can hang with stock Bronco raptors at speed and dominate them in the rocks. And it probably still cost less. Car style IFS isn't good in the desert no matter how many times you guys say it. If you want to experience it first hand, come out to the desert. Hell I'll even rent you the Bronco to get embarrassed by the mojave in.

 

[Remorseless]

 

[Trout Slayer]

Regarding IFS vs live axle rigs:
I think the two settings where IFS has the advantage in baja is in the silt beds and in areas where speeds are about 90 plus mph.

The silt beds are SUPER powdery and deep, so going full throttle while a lighter IFS "floats" over is easier compared to a heavier live axle.
On the flip side, silt beds usually have large boulders hiding underneath so when IFS hits one of those full throttle.... snap...... A-arms.
A live axle hitting the same spot..... fly over or flip over... no snapping.

On full balls out throttle in the open stretches a live axle tends to track better up until near 90mph. After that IFS tends to track better. The front end offers more wheel control and the landings after four left the floor are a bit more manageable compared to live axle high speed landings.... lots of bouncy bouncy.

On rock crawling sections like the climb near Mike's Sky Ranch, live axles flip the bird on IFS as they gobble rocks, ruts, and booby traps like nothing.
On mud sections is another area where live axle flourishes over IFS.
There are large sections north of Loreto where you can be crossing a half mile of thick clay-like mud filled with hidden boulders.
IFS tends to float for a bit then lose lots of traction where a live axle tends to dig a bit deeper and in doing so keeps better traction over the long mud bog.

There are always booby traps throughout the course and for the most part, live axle rigs tend to survive the traps better than IFS.
Hidden boulders, buried logs, deep ruts dug across the course covered by water, etc.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Regarding IFS vs live axle rigs:
I think the two settings where IFS has the advantage in baja is in the silt beds and in areas where speeds are about 90 plus mph.

The silt beds are SUPER powdery and deep, so going full throttle while a lighter IFS "floats" over is easier compared to a heavier live axle.
On the flip side, silt beds usually have large boulders hiding underneath so when IFS hits one of those full throttle.... snap...... A-arms.
A live axle hitting the same spot..... fly over or flip over... no snapping.

On full balls out throttle in the open stretches a live axle tends to track better up until near 90mph. After that IFS tends to track better. The front end offers more wheel control and the landings after four left the floor are a bit more manageable compared to live axle high speed landings.... lots of bouncy bouncy.

On rock crawling sections like the climb near Mike's Sky Ranch, live axles flip the bird on IFS as they gobble rocks, ruts, and booby traps like nothing.
On mud sections is another area where live axle flourishes over IFS.
There are large sections north of Loreto where you can be crossing a half mile of thick clay-like mud filled with hidden boulders.
IFS tends to float for a bit then lose lots of traction where a live axle tends to dig a bit deeper and in doing so keeps better traction over the long mud bog.

There are always booby traps throughout the course and for the most part, live axle rigs tend to survive the traps better than IFS.
Hidden boulders, buried logs, deep ruts dug across the course covered by water, etc.

And those are mostly aftermarket beefier, wider A arms with beefier tie rods. The stock Bronco/4runner/tacoma ifs doesn't work and breaks early.

 

[Remorseless]

Man even the early model Mustangs couldn't keep from hitting shit. Dude probably thought he looked cool going so fast.

 

[Traveller128]

I was hoping for the Hellcat in 15, but nope.
I told my buddy “If I get it they’ll put the blower motor in them next year just to piss me off”…..
I missed it by a year.

You know, I see a lot of folks that bought the Hellcat over the years, sell it in 3 years or so. Bunch of mopar folks I know or have met along the way went back to an SRT 392. No one seems to keep the Hellcat for anything but drag racing. You see the Hellcats at the drag strip but not the road races. Day to day driving, open road racing, they gravitate back to the 392. R/T Scat pack or T/A 392, SRT 392. Just seems to be a better daily. Will still run 170+, runs down the road well on 91 octane, doesn't need the $4400 brake job.

 

[3TV]

Regarding IFS vs live axle rigs:
I think the two settings where IFS has the advantage in baja is in the silt beds and in areas where speeds are about 90 plus mph.

The silt beds are SUPER powdery and deep, so going full throttle while a lighter IFS "floats" over is easier compared to a heavier live axle.
On the flip side, silt beds usually have large boulders hiding underneath so when IFS hits one of those full throttle.... snap...... A-arms.
A live axle hitting the same spot..... fly over or flip over... no snapping.

Those silt beds can be treacherous. I had my IFS Can Am X3 on a racecourse a few years ago where there was a long steep hill climb. The dirt turned to silt after a few hundred race cars had been over it. And with the steepness of the hill, all the silt tended to be pushed down the hill by the vehicles spinning tires, creating a huge deep silt bed at the bottom of the hill. I saw the silt and gave it full throttle to make sure I made it through, but my IFS Can Am didn't float across that time. It dived into the silt and I watched what looked like a big wave of water come up over the hood, but it was silt instead of water. Silt can flow just like water, and it flowed up and over the hood, across the dash, and dumped right into the cockpit of the Cam Am, completely filling the cockpit right up to the tops of the half doors. It stopped the Can Am dead in its tracks. After the dust settled and I was able to wipe off my goggles I saw that I was sitting in chest deep silt with the entire cockpit filled with it. Now that was an interesting experience.

 

[2nd 392]

You know, I see a lot of folks that bought the Hellcat over the years, sell it in 3 years or so. Bunch of mopar folks I know or have met along the way went back to an SRT 392. No one seems to keep the Hellcat for anything but drag racing. You see the Hellcats at the drag strip but not the road races. Day to day driving, open road racing, they gravitate back to the 392. R/T Scat pack or T/A 392, SRT 392. Just seems to be a better daily. Will still run 170+, runs down the road well on 91 octane, doesn't need the $4400 brake job.

Yep, my son has a Scat Pack and has told me the numbers (I don’t recall), but I do remember being surprised at the small difference, up to a point anyway, that you seldom would be using on the street. … Of course never legally.

His wife “I hate that car” , it’s the car’s fault she got a 102 in a 65 ticket, a huge and fire, traffic school.
Being raised to be a thoughtful husband he is letting her drive the Jetta, and trading it in on a MOAB, what a guy ! BTW- the Last Call’s trade in is surprisingly nearly what he paid for it.

 

[Traveller128]

Yep, my son has a Scat Pack and has told me the numbers (I don’t recall), but I do remember being surprised at the small difference, up to a point anyway, that you seldom would be using on the street. … Of course never legally.

His wife “I hate that car” , it’s the car’s fault she got a 102 in a 65 ticket, a huge and fire, traffic school.
Being raised to be a thoughtful husband he is letting her drive the Jetta, and trading it in on a MOAB, what a guy ! BTW- the Last Call’s trade in is surprisingly nearly what he paid for it.

I had a 2009 R/T Challenger 6 speed track pak bought brand new. With a Vortech on it, it was kind of stupid fast. But the SRT suspension was absolutely needed, as one of the things they got period correct on the new R/T suspension was the super floaty feel over 125 just like my old Rallye 340. Under damped and floaty. I swapped a complete SRT setup in fairly quickly. The only old Mopar I liked at higher speed was the T/A I had back in the day.

We currently have a 2014 Charger Pursuit. They got huge brakes in early 2014 (14.5" front and the 13.8" rear for R/T and base SRT). Factory oil cooler, external trans cooler, power steering cooler, large radiator. Anything that was suspect I replaced. Low miles when we got it (47K). We bought it to use for open road racing. With a Procharger setup, base tune put it around 460 at the wheels on 91 octane. Custom tune is sitting right on 500HP at the wheels (one size larger pulley, full custom tune). Still on 91 octane. CANNOT run it on anything lower.

The car is limited at 170 which is what the tires are rated for. We've taken two 2nd place finishes at the Silver State, about .030 out of first which irks me. Probably will do it again after we retire. It ran 12.7 @ 111 last time out with 4000' D.A. on the street tires. Obviously quicker at lower altitude, should be in the 12.30's down there. My 60' is around 2.00 which hurts the E.T. a bit, but all I do is drive it to the track, air down to 28 psi, make some runs, air up with a Ryobi pump and drive home. 91 pump gas. I run it like I drive it, no drag radials, no suspension mods. Yes, it would be quicker with better tires, but I'm not spending $1200 to go to the strip once a year.

We bought the 2014 because that was the year (late production) they went to the big brakes, but they also changed the suspension parts in the rear to change camber/caster rates for high speed stability (Pursuit package BR9 in 2014 was when they did this). Everything after early 2014 got the updates. Same stuff the SRT got in 2015 going forward. It's rock solid to 170, can't even imagine trying that in my old Mopars. 150 was getting MIGHTY interesting in those. 150 in this thing feels like you could commute.

Road racing at 110 and 120 average speed (top end in the 140 range for making up time when needed, I've run 10 miles at 140) just feels like it could do it all day. Running 90 miles one way in 45 minutes is not a big deal. Feels like you're moving, but feels like it could do it until it ran out of gas. Temps all stay right where they should be, trans, coolant, oil, all just like you're commuting on a warm day. A/C works at speed which is important when it's a bit warmer out, because full race suits and Nomex aren't exactly cool. Incidentally, we measured fuel mileage in the 110 and 120 classes. It's getting 16.7 at 110 average, 14.5 at 120 average. It gets 25.5 round trip from Boise to Ely NV.

These newer Mopars aren't anything like the old Mopars for that.

This kind of contrasts with the 2 door Wrangler. We have other things to go fast, the Jeep will do 100 and it doesn't feel like it should for any length of time. It's a lot more fun to do other things with it. The bigger the tires get, the slower it should go. I'm a big believer in horses for courses.

Sponsored