Starting from Scratch

[DOOKEY]

Can you list out your steering and suspension setup again for those of us trying to play catch up?

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[WontonJLUR]

I've had the Metalcloak 3.5 lift on for basically the life of the Jeep. Zero issues whatsoever for the first 28k miles, and then the Milestar patagonias started to wear really strange during the end of their life. This caused me to make some changes to the alignment, and that's where all my problems started.

I'm sure that you've gone over all of this multiple times like I have, but I'll briefly summarize what I've done just in case.

Changed caster to about 6 degrees each side. Varying levels of caster didn't make much of a difference, but I haven't gone beyond 6.

Various toe adjustments. Toe in seems to make the problem worse, I'm currently at 0 toe and my jeep is pretty much fine everywhere. Toe out makes the problem go away altogether, since it pre-loads the steering components once you're moving, but that's no bueno for tire wear.

Found my stock drag link had a loose balljoint on the pitman end, replaced with yeti, not much change. Steering does feel better though.

Tie rod seems fine, ordered a new one in preps for hydro steer anyways.

Ball joints seem fine, but several forum members report that they've had to replace them as low as 15k miles on jeeps that are lifted and wheeled since early in life.

Found my frame side track bar mount to be wallowed out, not as bad as yours. Installed Rusty's track bar brace. No real change.

Put balancing beads in the tires, no real change.

My problem seems to be evolving. there's one patch of road that doesn't even have a ton of crazy bumps that JUST started giving me the hint of wobble onset yesterday. it goes away as I speed up. I'm pretty confident that the ongoing battle with wobbles has caused more things to get accelerated wear and I'm also keeping the track bar bushings in mind at this point. It's been on the jeep for over 30k miles at this point (metalcloak track bar). Might get the yeti track bar eventually to complete the trifecta.

I'm HOPEFUL that the new balljoints and tie rod will eliminate the issues, since those are the last remaining stock parts on the front suspension.

I'm confident that the hydro assist steering will completely eliminate any issues, but I've been wrong before.

 

[Jeep&dogs]

Well I have:

Cast Iron box
Synergy brace
Clayton arms
Clayton track bars
Reid knuckles
Dynatrac ball joints
Rusty’s tie rod
Rusty’s drag link
Rusty’s 2” springs
AEV borah wheels
Toyo 315 AT3
Fox 2.5 DSC shocks
Fox Race stabilizer

I have tried BFG ko2 tires
Synergy front sway bar
Dana HD ball joints
Fox IFP shocks
Dynatrac springs

AND had an engineer from FCA dial into the local dealer and they reprogrammed the computer for a second time to make sure it accepted the software flash properly.


Alignment is 6.5 caster
1/16 in toe
I have tried every caster combination and also 1/4 toe in up to 1/4 toe out.

The only thing I have NOT done is I have the Johnny joint bushings to replace the factory uppers but I have not installed them.


I have even gone as far as to replace two of the Rusty’s tie rod ends that have probably 1000 miles on them because I felt a slight amount of play in them doing a dry steer test. Those were the parts I was waiting in and installed yesterday.

The same list of parts above will most likely be listed in the for sale area next week. If anyone is looking for some slightly used stuff. Unfortunately the knuckles and ball joints will have to stay on the Jeep.

 

[WontonJLUR]

Extensive indeed. I'm truly sorry to hear that none of this has fixed the issue, and also sorry to hear that you're intending to get rid of the Jeep. I do completely understand and definitely wish you the best of luck going forward.

 

[DOOKEY]

Well I have:

I watched your other video. Do you possibly have one with the camera mounted to the frame while staring at the axle? I'd be interested to see if the frame is moving side to side over the axle when you hit the bumps.

 

[Jeep&dogs]

Extensive indeed. I'm truly sorry to hear that none of this has fixed the issue, and also sorry to hear that you're intending to get rid of the Jeep. I do completely understand and definitely wish you the best of luck going forward.

This thing was basically my keeper Jeep, wasn’t going to beat it to death but I wanted it to be able to go pretty much anywhere I wanted to go without worrying about it. I just can’t figure this thing out. It’s to the point all I do is wrench on it and it honestly sucks to drive unless the road is 100% smooth. Any dips or bumps and it’s a handful to drive.

 

[Jeep&dogs]

I watched your other video. Do you possibly have one with the camera mounted to the frame while staring at the axle? I'd be interested to see if the frame is moving side to side over the axle when you hit the bumps.

No I don’t but this is what the steering box does doing a dry steer test. It already has a brace on it. I do think this is contributing to the issues.

 

[Jeep&dogs]

Some people can see the video others can’t. I myself can’t see it when I click on it.

 

[WontonJLUR]

This thing was basically my keeper Jeep, wasn’t going to beat it to death but I wanted it to be able to go pretty much anywhere I wanted to go without worrying about it. I just can’t figure this thing out. It’s to the point all I do is wrench on it and it honestly sucks to drive unless the road is 100% smooth. Any dips or bumps and it’s a handful to drive.

Agreed. That's kinda what brought me to the hydro assist option. I'm keeping this jeep regardless. the hydro assist is kind of the nuclear option since it's just an extreme duty steering stabilizer plus I've wanted it for a while anyways.

The world-ending nuclear option is just to replace the axles if the hydro assist doesn't solve it, which I will do, I just hope it doesn't come to that.

 

[DOOKEY]

No I don’t but this is what the steering box does doing a dry steer test. It already has a brace on it. I do think this is contributing to the issues.

Is that the steel box? I can guarantee that is an issue. If you see it that much just while sitting still it will only amplify when you hit the bumps.

 

[Jeep&dogs]

Is that the steel box? I can guarantee that is an issue. If you see it that much just while sitting still it will only amplify when you hit the bumps.

Yes, that’s the steel box and the synergy brace installed. I honestly think by doing the lift it drops the drag link and changes the angle it is applying force to the pitman arm and also the box itself.

 

[Jeep&dogs]

Here is another view of it.

 

[DOOKEY]

Yes, that’s the steel box and the synergy brace installed. I honestly think by doing the lift it drops the drag link and changes the angle it is applying force to the pitman arm and also the box itself.

Agreed. The more angle you have on the track bar the harder it has to work to keep everything centered.

I think you probably have 3 combined issues going on.

1.) That steering box wiggle. That is excessive.
2.) Track bar angle.
3.) Electric pump isn't running at max pressure when you're just driving. So for lack of a better way to say it... the pressure in the system isn't enough to account for the increased demand on the box.

 

[DOOKEY]

Here is another view of it.

I would absolutely figure out some way to stop that from twisting on the frame. It will only lead to negative degradation in the future.

 

[Jeep&dogs]

I can’t say I really disagree with you. I think the box flexing is probably 90% of it. But with that being said i really don’t know what can be done with that. I have another box actually but I don’t know it would have any less flex. The castings are all the same.

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