Should I wait for 2018 Wrangler?

Spank

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With all the standard upgrades on JL, and a better looking exterior and interior, it would be stupid to buy a JK at this point. My $0.02.
I can't see any reason to choose a JK over JL based on what we have seen so far. You're spending about the same amount for two Jeeps that have the same offroad capability but one has better engine/transmission, mpgs, safety, etc. It's a no brainer to me.
Don't count the JK out just yet.

I agree the JL is going to be a substantial improvement over the JK, but it being a first year model, the consumer gets to play the role of Quality Control. And while that's typical with any auto manufacturer refresh, Chrysler is the worst at it. If you owned one of the earliest JKs when they came out of the gate, you played that role a decade ago and it wasn't fun. It's still amazing to this day how much Jeep quality dropped going from an '06 TJ to an '07 JK. And despite the contempt folks had for Chrysler's acquisition, it took Fiat of all things to improve Jeep.

Granted, Chrysler was churning out absolute garbage during those days. They were pinching pennies like crazy and it showed. Just look at the interior alone of any Chrysler vehicle between '06 and '11 and you can see the lack of pride they had in virtually everything they made. This isn't the case these days, but the idiom "one step forward, two steps back" always applies to automotive progress and it'll certainly apply the JL.

Yes, it'll have a bunch of nifty new gadgets and much needed modernization, but it's going to take time before it's as confident as the JK is now. Likewise, it won't have solid, wide aftermarket support for at least a couple years. Aftermarket products for the JK during its starting run were awful. It took a bunch of folks snapping trackbars off axles and dealing with death wobble after only a couple wheeling trips before companies stepped up to the plate and starting building JK products that were actually good.

So, yes, if you're buying a new JK today, you're paying for a ten year old vehicle that has a long and sorted history. But it's a well-documented one full of mistakes that have, for the most part, been corrected. Any issue you have with a JK will have a thread about it on a dozen forums across the Internet. Aftermarket support for the JK will outlast the production lifespan of the JL and beyond. It's got an old powertrain, a horrible radio and navigation system, and laughable appearance packages, but it works, it works well, and the popularity and presence of the JK isn't dying anytime soon. Ten years from now, the JL will have gone through the exact same thing and be in the exact same position.

The JL is going to be awesome. And, in a few years, it'll be confident and reliable, too.





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The Great Grape Ape

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Don't count the JK out just yet...

The JL is going to be awesome. And, in a few years, it'll be confident and reliable, too.
I agree, but I wouldn't even says it will be a few years (perhaps ~ 2yrs). The 2012 refresh took to the end of the model year to reach pretty good consistency (although mid 2013 MY to completely implement [phase 3 of] the Pentastar fix). The speed at which all automakers address these things has greatly improved. I still wouldn't pay top dollar for VIN # xxxxxxxxxxx120 , but I also wouldn't wait beyond 2020.

With it being such a short run the JL likely won't do much to address issues within its first model year, but I wouldn't be surprised if much of the growing pains are addressed by midway through the second MY/2019.

... which just so happens to be my target date, and just around warranty expiration date (might extend another year if a cool edition [loke HEV or Forced-6 engine update] expected).
 

Biker Dan

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I agree, but I wouldn't even says it will be a few years (perhaps ~ 2yrs). The 2012 refresh took to the end of the model year to reach pretty good consistency (although mid 2013 MY to completely implement [phase 3 of] the Pentastar fix). The speed at which all automakers address these things has greatly improved. I still wouldn't pay top dollar for VIN # xxxxxxxxxxx120 , but I also wouldn't wait beyond 2020.

With it being such a short run the JL likely won't do much to address issues within its first model year, but I wouldn't be surprised if much of the growing pains are addressed by midway through the second MY/2019.

... which just so happens to be my target date, and just around warranty expiration date (might extend another year if a cool edition [loke HEV or Forced-6 engine update] expected).
But we're comparing to the teething issues of a model (JK) that was introduced 10 years ago. Production quality, quality control, and engineering processes have surely advanced since then. So it might be a case where the initial issues for the JL/JLU are more minor and less frequent than when the JK first came out... or so I hope :)
 

COBill

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But we're comparing to the teething issues of a model (JK) that was introduced 10 years ago. Production quality, quality control, and engineering processes have surely advanced since then. So it might be a case where the initial issues for the JL/JLU are more minor and less frequent than when the JK first came out... or so I hope :)
One would think, but experience has shown my that Jeep doesn't really care about quality the way they should, counting on "It's a Jeep thing" buyers to just deal with the continuous water leaks and other issues. :(
 

doh

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With it being such a short run the JL likely won't do much to address issues within its first model year, but I wouldn't be surprised if much of the growing pains are addressed by midway through the second MY/2019.
That's my worry too given how slow the JL production ramp up will be. there needs to be enough produced and in the hands of early adopters to judge the extent of any issues. either way i know i cant wait to see all the owners on here and it'll be tough to sit on your hands after that. if all is quiet on the issues i will be tempted to pull the trigger on the first year.
 

The Great Grape Ape

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That's my worry too given how slow the JL production ramp up will be. there needs to be enough produced and in the hands of early adopters to judge the extent of any issues. either way i know i cant wait to see all the owners on here and it'll be tough to sit on your hands after that. if all is quiet on the issues i will be tempted to pull the trigger on the first year.
Like I mentioned in the other thread, my warranty on the DailyDriver JKU is up in the fall of next year , which is perfect timing to replace it at the '18/'19 model year cross-over point where I can determine the feature changes & colour palette changes between model years, and also have a hint at special editions that might arrive, and take advantage of possible discounted '18s at production crossover, all relatively well enough into the cycle to start thinking that the intial growing pains have been identified, even if a few still stay lurking unidentified/noticed.

All of those factors are providing pretty good incentive to push against the certainty of an "Oooh, I want one now" draw of all things "NEW & IMPROVED".

Of course it would be harder to resist if FCA were in a normal production/ordering cycle where I could get one in time for the start of Ski season and show it off at the early International races. Yeah... we're all still a bunch of silly teenagers at heart showing off our new toys when we get together for a few weeks of the year. :blush:
 

Spank

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But we're comparing to the teething issues of a model (JK) that was introduced 10 years ago. Production quality, quality control, and engineering processes have surely advanced since then. So it might be a case where the initial issues for the JL/JLU are more minor and less frequent than when the JK first came out... or so I hope :)
They have for most manufacturers. Chrysler is still catching up.

One would think, but experience has shown my that Jeep doesn't really care about quality the way they should, counting on "It's a Jeep thing" buyers to just deal with the continuous water leaks and other issues. :(
Not only that, but regardless of how poorly made any Jeep is, people are still scooping them up, so there's little incentive to improve quality. This is why I want Toyota, Ford, and even Chevy to release vehicles that directly compete with the Wrangler. It's a difficult market to corner if you're just one against the other, but if everybody jumps in, you'd see FCA knuckle down and address quality and innovation real fast.
 

Joe Camel

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They've been at full production capacity for a while now. I'm hoping expanding the lines and adding workers will help with build and quality but we'll see. Some competition would definitely help. I don't think it's an issue with production or engineering processes, it's just reaching and maintaining a standard of quality which is all about effort, pride and incentive to do so. No one buys Jeeps for their reliability and yet they sell boatloads of Wranglers. That could be the biggest reason we don't see any improvement for the JL. On the other hand the slow production ramp up could be a good thing instead of pumping them out as fast as they can make them like they've been doing.
 

PSA

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They've been at full production capacity for a while now. I'm hoping expanding the lines and adding workers will help with build and quality but we'll see. Some competition would definitely help. I don't think it's an issue with production or engineering processes, it's just reaching and maintaining a standard of quality which is all about effort, pride and incentive to do so. No one buys Jeeps for their reliability and yet they sell boatloads of Wranglers. That could be the biggest reason we don't see any improvement for the JL. On the other hand the slow production ramp up could be a good thing instead of pumping them out as fast as they can make them like they've been doing.
Interesting though. Have all the Jeep models been at full production capacity? If so, could help explain quality issues with brand overall.
 

SoCalWrangler

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Wonder how intense the security level is in those plants for all the workers not releasing images of it by now!
 

The Great Grape Ape

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They've been at full production capacity for a while now. I'm hoping expanding the lines and adding workers will help with build and quality but we'll see.
JK's at full capacity, JL isn't even finished building the line yet.

No one buys Jeeps for their reliability
Sure they do, which is why they take them into the middle of nowhere with the confidence that they'll get back out.

Sure people like CONsumer Reports focus on equating reliability of the vanity mirror to that of the drivetrain, but that's not what Wrangler owners buy them for.
 

Joe Camel

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JK's at full capacity, JL isn't even finished building the line yet.
I know, that's what I was referring to. Expanding the Wrangler production capacity for the JL should help. Whether it translates to better quality control we'll see.



Sure they do, which is why they take them into the middle of nowhere with the confidence that they'll get back out.

Sure people like CONsumer Reports focus on equating reliability of the vanity mirror to that of the drivetrain, but that's not what Wrangler owners buy them for.
I think you know what I mean. People buy jeeps for its off road performance and image among other things. They use it off road in the middle of nowhere in spite of its generally known less-than-stellar reliability and not because of it. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have never had any issues despite logging tons of miles but there's plenty of well documented issues that are a little more serious than the reliability of the vanity mirror.

Even more relevant to my point and the point of this discussion, a lot of the early JK buyers were hit hardest by the reliability issues. The late model JK's may experience few issues but it took a while to get there. They need to have a better reliability record for the early JL's.
 

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FCA should deploy cranes across America (like they do on F1 courses) to extract dead JLs after they crap out... Or huge drone helicopters...
 

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If gas mileage is a major driver in your purchase equation, this may not be the vehicle for you.
 

WXman

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They have for most manufacturers. Chrysler is still catching up.



Not only that, but regardless of how poorly made any Jeep is, people are still scooping them up, so there's little incentive to improve quality. This is why I want Toyota, Ford, and even Chevy to release vehicles that directly compete with the Wrangler. It's a difficult market to corner if you're just one against the other, but if everybody jumps in, you'd see FCA knuckle down and address quality and innovation real fast.
Actually, FCA is going backward. Almost every vehicle launch they've done since 2014 has been recalled and/or stalled at distribuition lots while they try to find fixes for software and mechanical glitches. The brand new Compass just got halted for the same type of thing.

If gas mileage is a major driver in your purchase equation, this may not be the vehicle for you.
Among the dozens of 4x4s of all types I've owned, I saw the best MPGs (in stock form) from my 2011 JKU and my 2012 JKU. Both easily would knock down 2-3 MPGs more than my buddies with Tacomas and Frontiers. The Wrangler is surprisingly fuel efficient, especially with the 6-speed and stock tires.
 

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