Playing in snow

[Campdaddy]

hey so I just got a 2021 2 door wrangler a few weeks ago and the first snow finally hit

I'm wondering how to play in it? Like in particular an empty abandoned mall parking lot.

Doing fish tails and stuff, should I have auto traction off? Should I be in 4 wheel drive, or 2 wheel drive?


Any do's or donts when it comes to playing in the snow?

This is my first wrangler but I've had a jeep liberty before til I crashed it.

Is a wrangler built for spinning around a snowy parking lot and how do I do it?

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[Zandcwhite]

A. Know where the curbs, light poles, park stops, etc are. Snow is soft, concrete not so much.
B. If you're just out to play doing donuts and drifts I'd suggest 2wd and traction control off as it is usually more controllable and more fun. The added benefit is when you slide it in to something too deep to drive out of, often a simple shift into 4wd will get you out. Get stuck when you're already in 4wd and now you'll have to work at getting unstuck.

 

[Campdaddy]

A. Know where the curbs, light poles, park stops, etc are. Snow is soft, concrete not so much.
B. If you're just out to play doing donuts and drifts I'd suggest 2wd and traction control off as it is usually more controllable and more fun. The added benefit is when you slide it in to something too deep to drive out of, often a simple shift into 4wd will get you out. Get stuck when you're already in 4wd and now you'll have to work at getting unstuck.

Well I already tore up the parking lot but its supposed to snow the next 4 days so ima go back tomorow and try it in 2wd with auto traction off. I just don't wanna over exert my engine or something

Thats good advice tho thank u

 

[Shots]

....Is a wrangler built for spinning around a snowy parking lot and how do I do it?

No, the Wrangler is built for traversing a snowy/rocky/muddy/flooded/steep trail.

Seriously though. Sure it can handle a parking lot, but I don't recommend it.

I always think about this guy:


Watch around 37-42 seconds. Basically, the air bag control module (ACM) detected a transition of lateral movement from one side to the other that cause it to believe there was a potential rollover or impact, thus triggering airbag deployment.

Doing donuts could potentially do the same thing if it senses enough lateral movement. Maybe you catch parking block, or a dry patch of asphalt, or a pot hole buried under the snow. Yes it's very unlikely, but not something I'm willing to risk. Very expensive fix if it does happen and I'd be surprised if the insurance company would cover it.

 

[Zandcwhite]

No, the Wrangler is built for traversing a snowy/rocky/muddy/flooded/steep trail.

Seriously though. Sure it can handle a parking lot, but I don't recommend it.

I always think about this guy:


Watch around 37-42 seconds. Basically, the air bag control module (ACM) detected a transition of lateral movement from one side to the other that cause it to believe there was a potential rollover or impact, thus triggering airbag deployment.

Doing donuts could potentially do the same thing if it senses enough lateral movement. Maybe you catch parking block, or a dry patch of asphalt, or a pot hole buried under the snow. Yes it's very unlikely, but not something I'm willing to risk. Very expensive fix if it does happen and I'd be surprised if the insurance company would cover it.

So long as you aren't in a sanctioned race event (common exclusion in most auto policies), your insurance absolutely will cover anything that happens in a parking lot. When people put their car in drive instead of reverse and mat the gas driving through the store insurance pays even though that is far dumber and more dangerous than drifting around an empty lot in the snow. The idiots on the road doing their makeup, reading the paper, playing on their phones, etc daily number in the thousands and they are all covered. Insurance covers dumb. Less time worrying and more time enjoying life. If you're worried about hidden potholes in a snow covered parking lot, I can only imagine how much fun you'd be on an actual trail.

 

[Valpo Jeep]

2wd on wet pavement. Probably be perfectly fine in snow.




when we got the Audi with the AWD Quattro system I had a very hard throwing it around in a snow covered parking lot until I turned traction control off. With TC off I could throw a snow rooster tail from all 4 wheels

 

[Reinen]

From an old-school guy...
Modern vehicles like the JL are specifically designed to not allow playing in snow. They're designed to retain traction and keep you moving straight down the road, which is exactly the antithesis of what playing in snow is all about.

You need to turn off Traction Control and Stability Control to keep the Jeep from preventing you to have fun. Press the Traction Control button to turn off traction control, hold the Traction Control button for 6 seconds to turn off Stability Control. Now you're set to play in the snow without the Jeep fighting you.

Playing in both 2WD and 4WD are both fun but different experiences. The hand brake only applies to the rear tires, which can be effective when playing in snow in 2WD but not 4WD. FAAFO.

That said, be aware that there is always crap under the snow that you will not see that can severely damage your Jeep. Curbs, potholes, objects. It's just a matter of time before you hit something you didn't see. Be very aware of your location. It's surprisingly easy to lose track of where you are and drift sideways into something.

I'm saying this because playing in snow, where it's safe, is the best way to be a good driver in snow. Use it as a learning experience. Learn how far you can push it. Learn what happens when you push it too far. Learn how to recover from it. See and feel what 2WD does, what 4WD does, what Stability Control does, what Traction Control does. FAAFO in an empty parking lot is a great way to stay in control and safe on the roads.

 

[Campdaddy]

From an old-school guy...
Modern vehicles like the JL are specifically designed to not allow playing in snow. They're designed to retain traction and keep you moving straight down the road, which is exactly the antithesis of what playing in snow is all about.

You need to turn off Traction Control and Stability Control to keep the Jeep from preventing you to have fun. Press the Traction Control button to turn off traction control, hold the Traction Control button for 6 seconds to turn off Stability Control. Now you're set to play in the snow without the Jeep fighting you.

Playing in both 2WD and 4WD are both fun but different experiences. The hand brake only applies to the rear tires, which can be effective when playing in snow in 2WD but not 4WD. FAAFO.

That said, be aware that there is always crap under the snow that you will not see that can severely damage your Jeep. Curbs, potholes, objects. It's just a matter of time before you hit something you didn't see. Be very aware of your location. It's surprisingly easy to lose track of where you are and drift sideways into something.

I'm saying this because playing in snow, where it's safe, is the best way to be a good driver in snow. Use it as a learning experience. Learn how far you can push it. Learn what happens when you push it too far. Learn how to recover from it. See and feel what 2WD does, what 4WD does, what Stability Control does, what Traction Control does. FAAFO in an empty parking lot is a great way to stay in control and safe on the roads.

Wow thank u thats awesome I just wonder what is faafo and also yeah I didn't even know I could hold it to turn off stability mode. How do I turn it back on? And whats the difference between stability and traction mode

 

[TheBirdie72]

This is my first wrangler but I've had a jeep liberty before til I crashed it.

Is a wrangler built for spinning around a snowy parking lot and how do I do it?

This sounds like an invitation for disaster. What could go wrong with this idea…?! ?

 

[Reinen]

Wow thank u thats awesome I just wonder what is faafo and also yeah I didn't even know I could hold it to turn off stability mode. How do I turn it back on? And whats the difference between stability and traction mode

? FAAFO = F*** Around And Find Out. It's how GenX learned most of what we know. Yes, sometimes it turns out badly but you learn a lot. My advice, be sure you don't reach stupid. It can hurt.

Traction and Stability Control turn back on whenever you start the Jeep or press the Traction Control button once. They're active when the button light is off.

Traction Control:
First of all it doesn't mean "more traction". It prevents you from breaking traction through acceleration. Traction Control monitors wheel speed and reduces throttle if the driving wheels slip. On pavement this translates to more traction because while spinning tires looks cool, it's actually less acceleration than transferring all acceleration to the ground and the spinning tires don't necessarily want to go straight. You have to control that. Also a great way to need new tires fast. In a mud bog or deep snow, this translates to your Jeep refusing to accelerate because your tires have to spin, it's the only way to move because there is no solid stable surface under the tires. That's why it's easy to turn off.

Stability Control:
This monitors the wheel speed of all wheels and if it detects that you're skidding to the side it will apply brakes to individual wheels in order to straighten you out again. Stability Control has more nuanced control over than is available to the driver.

Both of these are primarily for on-road and assume there is a stable solid road surface. Off-road and in severe conditions they can really get in your way, particularly Traction Control.

Actually, here's one experiment you should try in the snow because it demonstrates a big Achilles Heel in 4WD in snow. Get as much speed as you can (safely of course) and see how tight a turn you can hold in the snow with 2WD vs 4WD before you skid out. Spoiler, you'll do better in 2WD. 4WD is actually detrimental in curves because it forces a tire to skid which can send you skidding off the road. It's something that's important to understand. It's why 4WD can't drive as fast as AWD in snow. 4WD's upside is that you're far less likely to become outright stuck. It's like the race between the tortoise and the hare. The Jeep is the tortoise. Slower, but it will get there even when the hare can't.

 

[Shots]

.... If you're worried about hidden potholes in a snow covered parking lot, I can only imagine how much fun you'd be on an actual trail.

Well I'm only worried about those pot holes when my vehicle is sliding sideways. So yeah, on a trail, I'd be pretty concerned if I was sliding sideways there too. Maybe that makes me no fun, but when your vehicle is moving laterally you have no control, and they're not designed to handle much in that direction. Straight line, on an arc, whatever, no big deal. Sideways on the other hand is a problem and something to be concerned about.

Interesting info about the sanctioned even thing. And good point about insurance covering stupid, they definitely cover stupid stuff on the road, so I guess a parking lot makes sense too.

...That said, be aware that there is always crap under the snow that you will not see that can severely damage your Jeep. Curbs, potholes, objects. It's just a matter of time before you hit something you didn't see. ....

That's all I was trying to say. There is a very real risk to sliding around a parking lot, so be aware of the potential hazards.

I'm saying this because playing in snow, where it's safe, is the best way to be a good driver in snow. Use it as a learning experience. Learn how far you can push it. Learn what happens when you push it too far. Learn how to recover from it. See and feel what 2WD does, what 4WD does, what Stability Control does, what Traction Control does. FAAFO in an empty parking lot is a great way to stay in control and safe on the roads.

I agree with this. But this is more about driving, than just sliding in circles. Drive straight, smash the brake and see what it does. Turn sharply and see what is required to recover it. Do normal driving movements to see what does or does not work. This is very different from just doing donuts in a parking lot. What it sounds like you're recommending is to use a parking to to see how to properly handle the vehicle in snow/ice. This is absolutely the safest place to do it, and I would recommend the same.
But driving in circles faster and faster until is slides isn't really teaching you much. You don't drive on the roads like that so it has very little educational value. Although it may have a little, you will learn more by "driving" and experimenting than doing donuts. I know, I know, it's not as fun though.

? FAAFO = F*** Around And Find Out. It's how GenX learned most of what we know.....

Funny thing is, this is the scientific method, by a much cooler name.

• Come up with a hypothesis, perform an experiment and analyze the result.
• Wonder what happens if you do something, do the thing, and see what happens.

Same process.

FAAFO absolutely works. Us nerds have been doing it for decades. As you mentioned though the latchkey kids were certainly no stranger to it. They'd try something sketchy just to see what happened, especially without the constant overwatch by parents and/or cameras like younger generations have. That and there was no internet to be able to look it up. They just had to find out for themselves.

 

[Reinen]

I agree with this. But this is more about driving, than just sliding in circles. Drive straight, smash the brake and see what it does. Turn sharply and see what is required to recover it. Do normal driving movements to see what does or does not work. This is very different from just doing donuts in a parking lot. What it sounds like you're recommending is to use a parking to to see how to properly handle the vehicle in snow/ice. This is absolutely the safest place to do it, and I would recommend the same.

Donuts may be the initial draw but the reality is that it gets boring fairly quickly. You're going to change things up and try new things. You'll go to figure 8s. You'll go to tight donuts and wide drifts. You're going to come up with new games to play. Here's some examples:

Snowman Chicken
Build a couple rudimentary snowmen. Terrorize them with your vehicle. See how close you can get to them and swerve away. See how fast you can approach them and panic stop before you hit them. And if you hit 'em, BOOM! Dead snowman. You lose and have to make another snowman.

Racetrack
Set up a racetrack with tight turns, wide turns, straightaways, hairpins. Getting through it fastest forces you to learn how to drive well in snow. Fails can be hilarious and you learn more from failure than you do success.

But driving in circles faster and faster until is slides isn't really teaching you much. You don't drive on the roads like that so it has very little educational value. Although it may have a little, you will learn more by "driving" and experimenting than doing donuts. I know, I know, it's not as fun though.

Every street corner is 1/4 donut. Knowing what it takes to initiate donuts also teaches you what it takes to not initiate a spin at an intersection, and to not panic if it does happen. You don't have to take the fun out of it for it to be beneficial. Just knowing what sends vehicles into a skid and how to manage a skid goes very far.

Funny thing is, this is the scientific method, by a much cooler name.

• Come up with a hypothesis, perform an experiment and analyze the result.
• Wonder what happens if you do something, do the thing, and see what happens.

Same process.

Very true, but wow are you sucking the fun out of it.

FAAFO absolutely works. Us nerds have been doing it for decades. As you mentioned though the latchkey kids were certainly no stranger to it. They'd try something sketchy just to see what happened, especially without the constant overwatch by parents and/or cameras like younger generations have. That and there was no internet to be able to look it up. They just had to find out for themselves.

There is an important nuance to this though. We also knew that if everything went to hell in a handbasket, we'd also have to deal with that ourselves. Standard Boomer philosophy was to beat any child coming to them for help because how dare a child make them deal with a situation. So we always thought about bad outcomes, safety and self-rescue. Often in an equally sketchy way, but we did think about it constantly.

 

[Tethmes]

hold the Traction Control button for 6 seconds to turn off Stability Control.

I've seen this mentioned in a bunch of places, but it doesn't seem to work with mine. I can hold the button for 10 minutes and it doesn't seem to do anything beyond the base TC off. Perhaps me having the MT makes it behave differently?

It does disable when going in 4L, just not with the switch.

 

[wibornz]

I know how to play in the Michigan snow.

 

[Shots]

....
Snowman Chicken
Build a couple rudimentary snowmen. Terrorize them with your vehicle. See how close you can get to them and swerve away. See how fast you can approach them and panic stop before you hit them. And if you hit 'em, BOOM! Dead snowman. You lose and have to make another snowman.

Racetrack
Set up a racetrack with tight turns, wide turns, straightaways, hairpins. Getting through it fastest forces you to learn how to drive well in snow. Fails can be hilarious and you learn more from failure than you do success.

See, that sounds fun and educational. Much better than just driving in circles.

Very true, but wow are you sucking the fun out of it.

Ha ha. Yeah, we have a habit of doing that. Just pretend I didn't mention that part.

I know how to play in the Michigan snow.

Now that looks like fun. Again, not just doing circles. Next time you need to add a few of Reinen's snowmen. That sounds like a blast.

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