Pizza cutters flex more???

[Ratbert]

This Toyo guy did an indepth analysis of some tires. Yeah, pizza cutters are ugly AF, but damn. I'm not sure what the implications of his suspension differences would be in these tests.

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[BDinTX]

I thought that was an interesting video. Have heard that narrower tires have better traction in certain terrain but this really illustrates why. I left a comment for him asking if he thought the KM3s extra flexibility was due to it being older.

 

[AZ Hella]

I would think that any MT tire would flex more than AT’s due to the wide lug spacing. I would like to see more videos like his comparing apples to apples.

 

[azwjowner]

I would think that any MT tire would flex more than AT’s due to the wide lug spacing. I would like to see more videos like his comparing apples to apples.

That was my thought as well. The total area of the contact patch is constant for a weight and PSI, but he measured the area by the circumference of the total area, not the area of the actual lugs. Thus I wasn't surprised that the KM3 had a perceived larger area, which it needed to have the same area of lug in contact with the ground as the all-terrain. The pizza cutter is still clearly superior, however, whether AT or MT.

 

[AcesandEights]

The wider tire thing has been aesthetic for years. Tire mfg make what people want, and people want to look "cool". People that know off road praise and try to buy the pizza cutter. It's just sad to a guy like me that what's cool sells and tire mfg don't offer more pizza cutter choices.

 

[Old Jeeper]

This Toyo guy did an indepth analysis of some tires. Yeah, pizza cutters are ugly AF, but damn. I'm not sure what the implications of his suspension differences would be in these tests.

Well the last 5 min or so is the answer. In all my time leading runs in Moab I became a sales guy for BFG KMs., 37 x 12:50 x 17s Now we are playing at the 7+ trail level and I run Walker Evans Bead Locks (which I think the guy in the video also had on his rig) and in Moab where I played I ran 3-5 psi. My Jeep crawled like an M1 Tank. At the end of the week the guys I was leading were SOLD on BFG KMs. These are folks that know they are there to play with the big boys.

He also mentioned something about the KMs that on the street they don't flex as well...and that is a good thing, because what it does is allow you to run it on the street at 16-18 psi and that is it begins to flex and giving a contact patch for street use.

Lets qualify all this: The above is Moab and world of rocks my world pizza cutters don't hack it when start playing with the big boys.

But Pizza cutters can out perform anything in a certain area. MUD. Early cars up thru about the Ford Model A ran very SKINNY tires. WHY?

Streets were not paved and when it rains, what does the skinny tire do for you? It sinks down into and thru the MUD to solid ground and that is why you use Pizza Cutters in the MUD to get to firma terra.

Look at the wheel on a farming tractor, little narrow wheel up front to sink down in between the rows to steer with, rear wheel are wider to sit higher on the 2 rows they plowing on.

Take Away:

Rocks call for 37 X 12:50s IMO is the optimum size, I have never ran bigger than that and never been denied the summit.

MUD calls for Skinny tall tires to sink in to find firm ground. There are others that are fat and are floaters they work in swamps and places like that.

Sand? I got no idea, never played in that park.

 

[Vatdevil]

SMH…. Wider tires need wider wheels and lower pressure to maximize contact patch on the same vehicle. Running the same wheel width and pressure is a big disadvantage for wider tires. This “analysis” misses this basic understanding.

 

[Jeffy56]

For function, sand likes wider tires for floatation. Hill climbing narrower. The basic considerations: What terrarain/use, environment, vehicle weight, side wall preference i.e. speed or rocks. Contact patch size at what lbs per square inch, of the contact patch not tire air pressure. On a Jeep, a load D or E tire will not flex as much because of the stiffer sidewall and will diminish traction in many situations. Lower air pressure helps, but note you are flexing the tire carcass more and this may lead to separation of some layers. Basic tire 101. Mall crawler: Do whatever you want, because it won't matter; except for that "can't stop in the rain" scenario. I've seen multiple vehicles lose control in the winter rain, snow and ice running wide mudders.

 

[Badfish]

Surprised when he did the rock under tire test he didn’t keep that consistent. That is a smaller rock for the skinnier tire. Keep the impact relative to tire width for each tire.

 

[VKSheridan]

This Toyo guy did an indepth analysis of some tires. Yeah, pizza cutters are ugly AF, but damn. I'm not sure what the implications of his suspension differences would be in these tests.

I watched this video as well and thought it was an interesting attempt to “accidentally” endorse a certain brand of tire through fake discovery.

Static tests come across extremely convincing and are certainly factual in their results but how often do you sit on a pipe laid on its side, sit on a five inch rock or have a desire to rut out a trail with pizza cutters?

There’s a reason combines and grain buggies don't run on narrow rubber. There’s a reason dragsters and pull-tractors don’t run skinny’s on the rear.
There’s a reason why wide tires transfer more torque during acceleration or braking when in motion.

Try climbing a hill wearing skis instead of snow shoes and it all starts making sense. Try going down a hill wearing skis instead of snow shoes and see which stops you fastest.

Early cars were on wagon wheels because wagons were on wagon wheels. Wagon wheels were light, had very little rolling resistance, had tons of suppliers and the mules that pull them never seemed to complain.

But when you have to transfer torque through the damn things is when people woke up to their misgivings.

Strangely, folks tired of constantly getting stuck, damaged spindle/axle bearings and rutted roads. If it weren’t for war rations on rubber, wagon wheels would have disappeared even sooner.

I agree with some that pizza cutters have their place, I just don’t think that place is on the trail. A combination of flotation with torque transfer is your winch’s best friend.

 

[Old Jeeper]

Hey guys, the guy in the video did the best he could. Its grasp of wheeling and tires is, lets say not as firm as it should be. Time and trails will teach him the Holy Grail, he is not all wrong.

That said tires and wheeling is a complex story. Too wide and your CoF get way to low.

US Army M1 A2 Main Battle Tank

Weight: 69.54 TONS

Ground Pressure: 15.4 PSI

Take Away: More sq in of contact patch the lower your ground pressure.

In the rocks you want a wider tire because the tire needs to adapt to the rocks physically. But go too wide and it adapts but the ground pressure is less.

Now add you applied torque. The TJ 6 cyl was rock crawler's dream as about 80% of the torque was found under about 1600 rpm. IIRC. There was always one guy on run that showed up with a 426/425 Hemi and massive tires that made the Jeep look like a toy. Of course, they would also ask, I want to lead, I don't like being held back. NO Mr Hemi, you signed up for my run on 7+ trails and I lead, spot and winch because I am responsible the folks that signed up.

Over 8 years, average 2 x per year how many times did Hemi Jeep make it to P-Canyon? We did P Canyon on our last day of wheeling of the week.?

What I personally have found is that 37 x 12:50 x 17 will take any identified rock trail. That said I have only challenged the trail in a SWB. As many have JK/JL U your experience may be different, you may need taller and or wider or narrower.

Since the JK U I seen a real trend to much taller tires, 40+ and I have had them (hemi guys like those) on my runs and I have run with them in weeks I was leading. Its their Jeep, their wallet do as they please.

 

[pfletcher229648]

Clicked on link cause I thought it was about pizza.... sigh, zzzzzzz.

Can someone please get back to real controversy, 2 dr vs 4 dr, SOT top vs all other Inferior tops, Rubicon isn't worth the money, V6 vs I4 Turbo, angry jeep eye grills, etc.

 

[Deleted User 38384]

This Toyo guy did an indepth analysis of some tires. Yeah, pizza cutters are ugly AF, but damn. I'm not sure what the implications of his suspension differences would be in these tests.

Very interesting. Thankfully I do not care about aesthetics, all I care about is functionality. Looks like I might be downgrading the width of my 35-in tires later this fall.

 

[Deleted User 38384]

Hey guys, the guy in the video did the best he could. Its grasp of wheeling and tires is, lets say not as firm as it should be. Time and trails will teach him the Holy Grail, he is not all wrong.

That said tires and wheeling is a complex story. Too wide and your CoF get way to low.

US Army M1 A2 Main Battle Tank

Weight: 69.54 TONS

Ground Pressure: 15.4 PSI

Take Away: More sq in of contact patch the lower your ground pressure.

In the rocks you want a wider tire because the tire needs to adapt to the rocks physically. But go too wide and it adapts but the ground pressure is less.

Now add you applied torque. The TJ 6 cyl was rock crawler's dream as about 80% of the torque was found under about 1600 rpm. IIRC. There was always one guy on run that showed up with a 426/425 Hemi and massive tires that made the Jeep look like a toy. Of course, they would also ask, I want to lead, I don't like being held back. NO Mr Hemi, you signed up for my run on 7+ trails and I lead, spot and winch because I am responsible the folks that signed up.

Over 8 years, average 2 x per year how many times did Hemi Jeep make it to P-Canyon? We did P Canyon on our last day of wheeling of the week.?

What I personally have found is that 37 x 12:50 x 17 will take any identified rock trail. That said I have only challenged the trail in a SWB. As many have JK/JL U your experience may be different, you may need taller and or wider or narrower.

Since the JK U I seen a real trend to much taller tires, 40+ and I have had them (hemi guys like those) on my runs and I have run with them in weeks I was leading. Its their Jeep, their wallet do as they please.

Not that it matters too much, but I personally will be running 35-in tires for a long time. At this moment I have very little off-road experience. But just like anything, you start small and as you get better and more technical experience, you can upgrade. That doesn't necessarily mean that bigger tires are a better upgrade, I might find after 10 years of wheeling that I really prefer 35s.

But technical experience will always trump bigger tires.

 

[azjl#3]

The wider tire thing has been aesthetic for years. Tire mfg make what people want, and people want to look "cool". People that know off road praise and try to buy the pizza cutter. It's just sad to a guy like me that what's cool sells and tire mfg don't offer more pizza cutter choices.

This^^^^

Only place I really want fat tire is sand. Even though his test showed skinny was better

For function, sand likes wider tires for floatation. Hill climbing narrower. The basic considerations: What terrarain/use, environment, vehicle weight, side wall preference i.e. speed or rocks. Contact patch size at what lbs per square inch, of the contact patch not tire air pressure. On a Jeep, a load D or E tire will not flex as much because of the stiffer sidewall and will diminish traction in many situations. Lower air pressure helps, but note you are flexing the tire carcass more and this may lead to separation of some layers. Basic tire 101. Mall crawler: Do whatever you want, because it won't matter; except for that "can't stop in the rain" scenario. I've seen multiple vehicles lose control in the winter rain, snow and ice running wide mudders.

I am a proponent of C rated, but if hard core rocking, E is nice for extra plies. And a C is much lighter.

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