Not using ESS feature anymore... Here's why

[roaniecowpony]

Covid is beginning to open a time warping wormhole. People are trying to re-live 2019.

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[aeonixx1001]

Agreed the ESS does not have anything to do with your oil pressure. It may however have caused the oil pressure transducer to do a freak out. I doubt your oil pressure actually went to 67. It just said it did. I am concerned about the Oil change then the problem. Are you sure everything is back where it needs to be, in other words inspect under the hood and see if they didn't knock something loose. The I would do a reset to factory on the radio head, go buy a Taser..

 

[mwilk012]

Agreed the ESS does not have anything to do with your oil pressure. It may however have caused the oil pressure transducer to do a freak out. I doubt your oil pressure actually went to 67. It just said it did. I am concerned about the Oil change then the problem. Are you sure everything is back where it needs to be, in other words inspect under the hood and see if they didn't knock something loose. The I would do a reset to factory on the radio head, go buy a Taser..

Your Jeep has a two stage oil pump. Oil pressure definitely goes up to about 75 psi.

 

[Jo's Jeep]

Damn it @Black Jeep Convertible ! I read through this whole thread wondering why it got bumped and was all set to award you the thread necromancy award...

But then I realized you’re ripping on the Navy. So have this instead:

Boo Hiss. Hey do you know what Marines stands for? My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment Silly!

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

 

[jeepoch]

Boo Hiss. Hey do you know what Marines stands for? My Ass Rides In Navy Equipment Silly!

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.

Look squid up in any standard dictionary.

"Squid: A lower form of marine life."


Also more to the point of the thread, without yet researching this, I'm now interested in finding out how much engine longevity is actually increased through the regular use of ESS.

Most people think that an engine start (any start) is hard on the engine. With ESS this is just not true. A warm engine remains lubricated for quite awhile. Oil is viscous for a reason. The amount of friction of starting a lubricated engine is (fractionally) much lower as compared to a cold start.

Furthermore, for the duration that the engine is stopped during ESS, the actual friction is ZERO. Absolutely no wear on any component will occur on any part when motionless. None, zero, nada (period).

Now integrate the entire amount of time, over that particular engine's entire lifetime of every ESS stop event, of just how much time it was warm but not spinning. Then compare that with how much wear and tear it would have otherwise undergone without ESS idling.

Let's see, my average commute to work (near 25 miles), I typically travel through about 30 stoplights, depending on the route. Let's further assume I have to stop at half of them. My typical trip unfortunately has me stop at much more than 50% of them. But that's a PhD thesis disertation subject in it's own right, but I digress.

Of the 15 stops, the average time of waiting is around a minute. A little more but let's keep it at a minute for simplicity. I work 5 days a week all year round. I do occasionally take vacation days so let's say 50 weeks per year. So totalling all this up,
50x5x15x60(seconds) = 225000 seconds = 3750 minutes = 62.5 hours = 2.6 days per year.

Now that's just typical. Likely way more due to trips to and from the mall, groceries, errands, to and from all my off-roading adventures, vacations, etc. So it's probably pretty safe to double that. This yields about 5.2 days per year.

While this doesn't sound like much it's about 15 minutes = 900 seconds per day of the engine's total accumulated daily run time. However, I typically only spend about 2 hours (7200 seconds) in my car over that total commute. For off days this is significantly less. For vacation it's significantly more.

So 900 ÷ 7200 = 0.125 or 12.5%

About 1/8th of the total daily engine run time would be spent idling. With ESS this is now 12.5% of extra engine life. For me this is pretty significant.

Extrapolating my expected 300K miles of engine life that's 37,500 miles of extra longevity for free. That's an entire warranty period for doing nothing. Specifically, by not pressing the disable button.

Furthermore, the oil pump is indeed a two stage mechanism. The sensor (and the monitoring of it) is not instantaneous. Like all digitally sampled values, it takes several samples at whatever it's sample rate happens to be. My hunch is that the lowest possible cost sensor used is not accurate until at least many several seconds, probably between 5 to 10, maybe even more. So while the oil pressure is indeed raising as the starter is engaged, it is well within the appropriate margin of the seals and gaskets. The 3.6L motor has an excellent reputation in longevity in general.

If the oil pressure was blowing it's seals, this would certainly already be known just due to cold cranking degredation where the seals are their smallest and most brittle at lower temperatures.

Can you remember the cause of the Challenger shuttle tragedy? High pressure blow through from cold O-Ring seals.

So I will argue that whatever oil pressure is developed at engine cranking, it is far less of an issue at warmer ESS enforced temperatures. The seals have expanded and are certainly more pliant at ESS temperature.

I therefore don't put much stock in this thread's argument. While I truly dispise how ESS came about by bureaucratic fiat, it does what it was designed to do. Plus indeed lengthen the overall longevity of the engine it is running on. Perhaps by a subjectively overwhelming amount, but at least by every moment I'm wasting my life waiting and doing not much of anything at red lights. For me, that's about five days six hours per year.

At least my Jeep is doing absolutely nothing either for that same amount of time. I believe ESS is more valuable than what most people give it credit.

5.2 days of not idling per year in fuel savings plus zero emissions over that entire time.

Semper Fi
Jay

 

[higbyz]

Look squid up in any standard dictionary.

"Squid: A lower form of marine life."


Also more to the point of the thread, without yet researching this, I'm now interested in finding out how much engine longevity is actually increased through the regular use of ESS.

Most people think that an engine start (any start) is hard on the engine. With ESS this is just not true. A warm engine remains lubricated for quite awhile. Oil is viscous for a reason. The amount of friction of starting a lubricated engine is (fractionally) much lower as compared to a cold start.

Furthermore, for the duration that the engine is stopped during ESS, the actual friction is ZERO. Absolutely no wear on any component will occur on any part when motionless. None, zero, nada (period).

Now integrate the entire amount of time, over that particular engine's entire lifetime of every ESS stop event, of just how much time it was warm but not spinning. Then compare that with how much wear and tear it would have otherwise undergone without ESS idling.

Let's see, my average commute to work (near 25 miles), I typically travel through about 30 stoplights, depending on the route. Let's further assume I have to stop at half of them. My typical trip unfortunately has me stop at much more than 50% of them. But that's a PhD thesis disertation subject in it's own right, but I digress.

Of the 15 stops, the average time of waiting is around a minute. A little more but let's keep it at a minute for simplicity. I work 5 days a week all year round. I do occasionally take vacation days so let's say 50 weeks per year. So totalling all this up,
50x5x15x60(seconds) = 225000 seconds = 3750 minutes = 62.5 hours = 2.6 days per year.

Now that's just typical. Likely way more due to trips to and from the mall, groceries, errands, to and from all my off-roading adventures, vacations, etc. So it's probably pretty safe to double that. This yields about 5.2 days per year.

While this doesn't sound like much it's about 15 minutes = 900 seconds per day of the engine's total accumulated daily run time. However, I typically only spend about 2 hours (7200 seconds) in my car over that total commute. For off days this is significantly less. For vacation it's significantly more.

So 900 ÷ 7200 = 0.125 or 12.5%

About 1/8th of the total daily engine run time would be spent idling. With ESS this is now 12.5% of extra engine life. For me this is pretty significant.

Extrapolating my expected 300K miles of engine life that's 37,500 miles of extra longevity for free. That's an entire warranty period for doing nothing. Specifically, by not pressing the disable button.

Furthermore, the oil pump is indeed a two stage mechanism. The sensor (and the monitoring of it) is not instantaneous. Like all digitally sampled values, it takes several samples at whatever it's sample rate happens to be. My hunch is that the lowest possible cost sensor used is not accurate until at least many several seconds, probably between 5 to 10, maybe even more. So while the oil pressure is indeed raising as the starter is engaged, it is well within the appropriate margin of the seals and gaskets. The 3.6L motor has an excellent reputation in longevity in general.

If the oil pressure was blowing it's seals, this would certainly already be known just due to cold cranking degredation where the seals are their smallest and most brittle at lower temperatures.

Can you remember the cause of the Challenger shuttle tragedy? High pressure blow through from cold O-Ring seals.

So I will argue that whatever oil pressure is developed at engine cranking, it is far less of an issue at warmer ESS enforced temperatures. The seals have expanded and are certainly more pliant at ESS temperature.

I therefore don't put much stock in this thread's argument. While I truly dispise how ESS came about by bureaucratic fiat, it does what it was designed to do. Plus indeed lengthen the overall longevity of the engine it is running on. Perhaps by a subjectively overwhelming amount, but at least by every moment I'm wasting my life waiting and doing not much of anything at red lights. For me, that's about five days six hours per year.

At least my Jeep is doing absolutely nothing either for that same amount of time. I believe ESS is more valuable than what most people give it credit.

5.2 days of not idling per year in fuel savings plus zero emissions over that entire time.

Semper Fi
Jay

30 stoplights on the way to work !!?? Move to Vermont,we dont have stoplights ! I turn off my ESS because I occasionally have to stop for bear and dear crossing the road !

 

[roaniecowpony]

Wouldn't it be "greener" than ESS to just stop making babies?

It's perfectly acceptable to berate people for not doing things that are "green". But about every world issue is tied to over population. Our very freedoms are being slowly rapidly stripped to make room for more people.

What's the carbon footprint of a person from womb to tomb? What's the average person's procreation rate? What freedoms enjoyed in 2020 will be gone by 2021 in order to support more people?

My wife and I chose to have no kids. What could I possibly do to the planet that would have as much adverse impact as having offspring?

I'm a boomer. I'll likely not live to see hunting and off roading banned completely in the U.S.. But they are heavily restricting off roading in most states, much more so than when I was younger.

So if I sound like I resent ESS, it's not ESS, it's just what it symbolizes: the overall cost to society so people can procreate to their heart's desire.

My little commentary on ESS... I feel better now. Anyone want to discuss hybrids? LOL

 

[digitalbliss]

Wouldn't it be "greener" than ESS to just stop making babies?

It's perfectly acceptable to berate people for not doing things that are "green". But about every world issue is tied to over population. Our very freedoms are being slowly rapidly stripped to make room for more people.

What's the carbon footprint of a person from womb to tomb? What's the average person's procreation rate? What freedoms enjoyed in 2020 will be gone by 2021 in order to support more people?

My wife and I chose to have no kids. What could I possibly do to the planet that would have as much adverse impact as having offspring?

I'm a boomer. I'll likely not live to see hunting and off roading banned completely in the U.S.. But they are heavily restricting off roading in most states, much more so than when I was younger.

So if I sound like I resent ESS, it's not ESS, it's just what it symbolizes: the overall cost to society so people can procreate to their heart's desire.

My little commentary on ESS... I feel better now. Anyone want to discuss hybrids? LOL

Man.... I'm tired of your old ass forcing new inconvenience on my life. Do us all a favor and gracefully bow out. You've had your time.

Yeah, that sounds pretty ridiculous and selfish, right? So does your rant above.

 

[jeepoch]

30 stoplights on the way to work !!?? Move to Vermont,we dont have stoplights ! I turn off my ESS because I occasionally have to stop for bear and dear crossing the road !

@higbyz,

Thanks for the advice. I live along the Colorado front range which like most places has become 'Generica' (Generic America) with suburban sprawl in all it's glory. ???

I can and mostly do take the more rural back country roads to eliminate about a third of the number of stop lights but that adds another 12 miles to the overall commute and time travelled (each way).

While I don't share the extreme political views of the last couple of poster's comments, as a Marine I'll always defend anyone's opinion (especially those I personally disagree with). Diversity in thought is even WAY MORE IMPORTANT than diversity in anything else. The color of your skin matters nothing as much as the content of the character in your heart.

Our youth has had that most sacred belief of Dr. Martin Luther King indoctrined out of their brains. Corrupt one party rule is the hell-bent obsession of these people. God save us all from the false promises and total tyranny and ravages of socialism. Everything about it is a blatant Orwellian lie. Ask an average Chinese citizen about anything political. They'll cower away in fear. Ask any Venezuelian about buying bread, they'll say it's nearly impossible.

I fear with all my heart the bad guys are indeed winning by finding ways of cheating our youth from the truth. Socialism has killed more people within all recent history on our planet than any other belief system (including religion). Yet somehow, it has become us defenders of democracy and capitalism that has somehow become the predominant evil. What vile horseshit. It's the exact opposite.

Still, the merit of any idea must be won through honest, open and civil discourse. I'll defend with every fiber of my being the right of anyone to politely and honestly speak their mind without intimidation. Even when it hurts and especially when it's offensive.

My oath to defend the US Constitution will always remain my highest honor and privilege. While I no longer wear the uniform, I'll unwaveringly support and foster everything that the any U.S. Marine stands up for. God, Country and certainly your 1st amendment right to speak your mind and freely express your opinions.

Stand up and be heard!

Differening opinions is what makes our country so exeptionally better than any other. Still, why are we teaching our youngest generations otherwise? Why is it that you are now marginalized and degraded if you happen to oppose their mob approved group-think? Why are you now being asked to go away? The intimidators are the truly ignorant. They may soon rue the day they supported such evil.

Keep up the good fight and always continue to be a unique and exceptionally valuable individual. Your thoughts and opinions do MATTER.

Thank you @higbyz, for your very kind offer. I'm sure Vermont is a wonderful place to live and work. However, I'll continue to fight the rat-race here in the urban People's (non) Democratic Republic of Boulder. I certainly can't agree with the politics here, but I'll continue to stand for MLK's dream. No matter how bent and contorted his teachings are now presented.

Sorry for that most difficult tangent. I did feel compelled to stand against the spirit and intent of the previous post. No one has the moral right to demean and hurt someone for their opinion. This crap has to be battled. Sorry, I even had to say it.

Back to the business at hand...

I too have a dream. One day we'll have full freedom and control over our Jeep's operational behaviors. Not only just it's color and physical make-up, but the character and content of it's electronics and software as well.

Jay

 

[aeonixx1001]

Look squid up in any standard dictionary.

"Squid: A lower form of marine life."


Also more to the point of the thread, without yet researching this, I'm now interested in finding out how much engine longevity is actually increased through the regular use of ESS.

Most people think that an engine start (any start) is hard on the engine. With ESS this is just not true. A warm engine remains lubricated for quite awhile. Oil is viscous for a reason. The amount of friction of starting a lubricated engine is (fractionally) much lower as compared to a cold start.

Furthermore, for the duration that the engine is stopped during ESS, the actual friction is ZERO. Absolutely no wear on any component will occur on any part when motionless. None, zero, nada (period).

Now integrate the entire amount of time, over that particular engine's entire lifetime of every ESS stop event, of just how much time it was warm but not spinning. Then compare that with how much wear and tear it would have otherwise undergone without ESS idling.

Let's see, my average commute to work (near 25 miles), I typically travel through about 30 stoplights, depending on the route. Let's further assume I have to stop at half of them. My typical trip unfortunately has me stop at much more than 50% of them. But that's a PhD thesis disertation subject in it's own right, but I digress.

Of the 15 stops, the average time of waiting is around a minute. A little more but let's keep it at a minute for simplicity. I work 5 days a week all year round. I do occasionally take vacation days so let's say 50 weeks per year. So totalling all this up,
50x5x15x60(seconds) = 225000 seconds = 3750 minutes = 62.5 hours = 2.6 days per year.

Now that's just typical. Likely way more due to trips to and from the mall, groceries, errands, to and from all my off-roading adventures, vacations, etc. So it's probably pretty safe to double that. This yields about 5.2 days per year.

While this doesn't sound like much it's about 15 minutes = 900 seconds per day of the engine's total accumulated daily run time. However, I typically only spend about 2 hours (7200 seconds) in my car over that total commute. For off days this is significantly less. For vacation it's significantly more.

So 900 ÷ 7200 = 0.125 or 12.5%

About 1/8th of the total daily engine run time would be spent idling. With ESS this is now 12.5% of extra engine life. For me this is pretty significant.

Extrapolating my expected 300K miles of engine life that's 37,500 miles of extra longevity for free. That's an entire warranty period for doing nothing. Specifically, by not pressing the disable button.

Furthermore, the oil pump is indeed a two stage mechanism. The sensor (and the monitoring of it) is not instantaneous. Like all digitally sampled values, it takes several samples at whatever it's sample rate happens to be. My hunch is that the lowest possible cost sensor used is not accurate until at least many several seconds, probably between 5 to 10, maybe even more. So while the oil pressure is indeed raising as the starter is engaged, it is well within the appropriate margin of the seals and gaskets. The 3.6L motor has an excellent reputation in longevity in general.

If the oil pressure was blowing it's seals, this would certainly already be known just due to cold cranking degredation where the seals are their smallest and most brittle at lower temperatures.

Can you remember the cause of the Challenger shuttle tragedy? High pressure blow through from cold O-Ring seals.

So I will argue that whatever oil pressure is developed at engine cranking, it is far less of an issue at warmer ESS enforced temperatures. The seals have expanded and are certainly more pliant at ESS temperature.

I therefore don't put much stock in this thread's argument. While I truly dispise how ESS came about by bureaucratic fiat, it does what it was designed to do. Plus indeed lengthen the overall longevity of the engine it is running on. Perhaps by a subjectively overwhelming amount, but at least by every moment I'm wasting my life waiting and doing not much of anything at red lights. For me, that's about five days six hours per year.

At least my Jeep is doing absolutely nothing either for that same amount of time. I believe ESS is more valuable than what most people give it credit.

5.2 days of not idling per year in fuel savings plus zero emissions over that entire time.

Semper Fi
Jay

I will have to disagree, there are far too many variable to accurately even guess. But A+ for trying. Flat out, I hate it and won't use it. But, honestly I did enjoy the read and have a few opinions. It is what is is..Thanks

 

[aeonixx1001]

Your Jeep has a two stage oil pump. Oil pressure definitely goes up to about 75 psi.

Oh I am not disagreeing with you at any level. I am just curious that it seemed more of a glitch that an actual mechanical error.

 

[DaNimbus]

Before I tell a good Marine joke, I'll put the disclaimer in I have never served in any branch of the military. I do have family serving and they appreciate a good joke.

What do you a call a Marine with an IQ of 160... wait for it, A Platoon.

 

[jeepoch]

Before I tell a good Marine joke, I'll put the disclaimer in I have never served in any branch of the military. I do have family serving and they appreciate a good joke.

What do you a call a Marine with an IQ of 160... wait for it, A Platoon.

Nice. But you missed the real punchline.

You missed the word "Leader". A Platoon Leader. The joke is that 'jarheads' are smarter than you think. Regardless you can always depend on us in a pinch. You'll be very thankful we're around when we're needed.

Improvise, adapt and overcome... There's no joke in that. But nice try.

Jay
Semper Fi

 

[CBTXJLUR]

Best thing I ever did was install:
https://www.smartstopstart.com/jeep-dodge-chrysler-products.html
No warning lights or buttons to push. Worth every cent.
If it was already mentioned, I apologize..couldn’t make myself read through all the thread.

 

[mwilk012]

Oh I am not disagreeing with you at any level. I am just curious that it seemed more of a glitch that an actual mechanical error.

....

It's neither. It was working as intended.

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