JL Needed Freon(1234yf). Not anymore!!!!

[DaltonGang]

My 2018 JL has been making a noise, like it is possibly low on freon. No big deal, it has been indicating this for a couple of weeks, and I have the hoses and gauges to do the recharge. WRONG!!!!!
The A/C blew warm yesterday, so I Looked up a video on it, so there wouldn't be a surprise.. That's when I found it took 1234yf freon. New stuff. This was very expensive, online, so I went to an Auto Parts store.
$69 for a small can, a new set of gauges and hose, with new connector. All is different. The hose connects to the can, in the opposite direction, and the connector to the Low Pressure hose is different. I was lucky they had the hose/gauge/connector combo there, and only one kind.
Total $133 minus a discount, made it $102.
Let's hope I don't have to do this again, anytime soon.

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[Heimkehr]

$69 for a 12 oz. can does seem pricey, but bear in mind that the same can cost a bit more than a C-note when R1234yf first arrived on the consumer market. Over time, the price will continue to contract, exactly as R134 did over time after it replaced R12.

R134 retrofit kits are available if price is a concern. IIRC, our own @Tredsdert recently did just that on his JLU. Granted, this is something best done when the vehicle is out of warranty, and with all due care being taken to perform the conversion correctly.

 

[DaltonGang]

$69 for a 12 oz. can does seem pricey, but bear in mind that the same can cost a bit more than a C-note when R1234yf first arrived on the consumer market. Over time, the price will continue to contract, exactly as R134 did over time after it replaced R12.

R134 retrofit kits are available if price is a concern. IIRC, our own @Tredsdert recently did just that on his JLU. Granted, this is something best done when the vehicle is out of warranty, and with all due care being taken to perform the conversion correctly.

Oh, it's out of Warranty all right. It only has 34,000 miles on it though.
Any links to the R134 conversion??

 

[Heimkehr]

Any links to the R134 conversion??

This is what's on Amazon at the moment. I tagged Greg (Tredsdert) specifically so he could provide additional intel on the matter.

 

[DaltonGang]

This is what's on Amazon at the moment. I tagged Greg (Tredsdert) specifically so he could provide additional intel on the matter.

Haha, in reading your post I thought you meant conversion of the entire system.

 

[Heimkehr]

Haha, in reading your post I thought you meant conversion of the entire system.

Well, the existing refrigerant will need to be safely and completely evacuated, prior to installing the conversion fittings and the new R134 charge. Even a bit of cross-contamination may compel replacement of the affected system components.

Proceed carefully...or just take one for the team with respect to the cost of the new refrigerant.

 

[DaltonGang]

@Tredsdert , anything to add about this subject??

 

[Tredsdert]

@Tredsdert , anything to add about this subject??

My 2018 JL has been making a noise, like it is possibly low on freon. No big deal, it has been indicating this for a couple of weeks, and I have the hoses and gauges to do the recharge. WRONG!!!!!
The A/C blew warm yesterday, so I Looked up a video on it, so there wouldn't be a surprise.. That's when I found it took 1234yf freon. New stuff. This was very expensive, online, so I went to an Auto Parts store.
$69 for a small can, a new set of gauges and hose, with new connector. All is different. The hose connects to the can, in the opposite direction, and the connector to the Low Pressure hose is different. I was lucky they had the hose/gauge/connector combo there, and only one kind.
Total $133 minus a discount, made it $102.
Let's hope I don't have to do this again, anytime soon.

TL;DR: The different freons of the modern generation are interchangeable. R134a and R1234YF are interchangeable. You're going to have to play with the pressure if you go back to the old one, but it should be easy enough to do so I understand. There's a couple videos on YouTube about it you could go watch.


I had posted a THREAD about this. There's only a few posts in there, you read through it pretty easy.

My next door neighbor actually owns an auto body shop over in McKinney, he offered to check the freon levels for me for free, and said he'd only charge me like 20 bucks I think (It's been more than 8 hours, and I don't have much of a memory for the past) to evacuate whatever's left. He hooked it up and came to me and said it's all gone, there's nothing to evacuate.

In my case it looks to be a JK Schrader valve that was inserted into the low pressure connector point. Only thing I could think of, because I've literally never messed with my AC system until this past summer when the wife and I were driving an hour & half in 100° weather with no AC, is that I got my last free oil change and like 40 point (or whatever it was) inspection by huffines CJDR In February. I never use my AC, only when the wife's riding with me, otherwise it's windows down 24/7. Maybe the tech did something and dropped the Schrader valve and lost it, and replaced it with one he thought would work not realizing that the JK valves are smaller than the JL valves. ?‍

More reasons not to go to dealerships!

If you do some research about it online, the JK Schrader valves are silver and a little bit smaller than the JL Schrader valves which are bronze. If you could get a JK Schrader valve to fit inside our JL systems, that would probably be where my leak is coming from, because they are a little bit smaller than the JL Schrader valves.

More on point to your topic, they are interchangeable. If you look at that sticker under your hood that tells you what your AC refrigerant and oil type is, I think it's PAC oil or something like that, it's actually the same oil that you get in R134a. The only thing you're really going to have to worry about if you do the transition is making sure that the pressure is correct. They both have slightly different pressure at proper capacity for the JL's, so you're going to have to play with it a little bit until it's blowing the right temperature. There's a couple videos about it on YouTube.

The biggest difference between R1234YF and R134A other than the three times higher cost of R1234YF is the cooling capabilities. R134A in a system designed for that freon will get about 2 to 3° colder than a system that is designed for and runs R1234YF. That being said, a system designed for R1234YF, that is then running R134A, will blow about 2 to 3° warmer. So instead of getting 65° at max AC, you're going to get 67°! Oh no ?

So yeah not a big difference.

Also while R134A and R1234YF are interchangeable, R12 is not included in that list. R12 if you don't know, is the freon we used prior to R134A. Also R12 is a chlorofluorocarbon, whereas R134A and R1234YF are hydrofluorocarbon's, ie. NOT COMPATIBLE!! That being said, I'm not even sure if you can buy R12 at this point in time. According to the internet an international treaty was made and people stopped producing it so ?‍


Hope this helps guy, I'll post more in that other thread of mine as I go through the process of transitioning into R134A and pinpointing exactly what my leak is.

 

[Heimkehr]

@Tredsdert

 

[DaltonGang]

TL;DR: The different freons of the modern generation are interchangeable. R134a and R1234YF are interchangeable. You're going to have to play with the pressure if you go back to the old one, but it should be easy enough to do so I understand. There's a couple videos on YouTube about it you could go watch.


I had posted a THREAD about this. There's only a few posts in there, you read through it pretty easy.

My next door neighbor actually owns an auto body shop over in McKinney, he offered to check the freon levels for me for free, and said he'd only charge me like 20 bucks I think (It's been more than 8 hours, and I don't have much of a memory for the past) to evacuate whatever's left. He hooked it up and came to me and said it's all gone, there's nothing to evacuate.

In my case it looks to be a JK Schrader valve that was inserted into the low pressure connector point. Only thing I could think of, because I've literally never messed with my AC system until this past summer when the wife and I were driving an hour & half in 100° weather with no AC, is that I got my last free oil change and like 40 point (or whatever it was) inspection by huffines CJDR In February. I never use my AC, only when the wife's riding with me, otherwise it's windows down 24/7. Maybe the tech did something and dropped the Schrader valve and lost it, and replaced it with one he thought would work not realizing that the JK valves are smaller than the JL valves. ?‍

More reasons not to go to dealerships!

If you do some research about it online, the JK Schrader valves are silver and a little bit smaller than the JL Schrader valves which are bronze. If you could get a JK Schrader valve to fit inside our JL systems, that would probably be where my leak is coming from, because they are a little bit smaller than the JL Schrader valves.

More on point to your topic, they are interchangeable. If you look at that sticker under your hood that tells you what your AC refrigerant and oil type is, I think it's PAC oil or something like that, it's actually the same oil that you get in R134a. The only thing you're really going to have to worry about if you do the transition is making sure that the pressure is correct. They both have slightly different pressure at proper capacity for the JL's, so you're going to have to play with it a little bit until it's blowing the right temperature. There's a couple videos about it on YouTube.

The biggest difference between R1234YF and R134A other than the three times higher cost of R1234YF is the cooling capabilities. R134A in a system designed for that freon will get about 2 to 3° colder than a system that is designed for and runs R1234YF. That being said, a system designed for R1234YF, that is then running R134A, will blow about 2 to 3° warmer. So instead of getting 65° at max AC, you're going to get 67°! Oh no ?

So yeah not a big difference.

Also while R134A and R1234YF are interchangeable, R12 is not included in that list. R12 if you don't know, is the freon we used prior to R134A. Also R12 is a chlorofluorocarbon, whereas R134A and R1234YF are hydrofluorocarbon's, ie. NOT COMPATIBLE!! That being said, I'm not even sure if you can buy R12 at this point in time. According to the internet an international treaty was made and people stopped producing it so ?‍


Hope this helps guy, I'll post more in that other thread of mine as I go through the process of transitioning into R134A and pinpointing exactly what my leak is.

So, if the R134A and R1234YF are interchangeable, why can't you mix the two, in the same system? What if there was residual R1234yf still in the system?

.

 

[Tredsdert]

So, if the R134A and R1234YF are interchangeable, why can't you mix the two, in the same system? What if there was residual R1234yf still in the system?

That I do not know. I'm sure it has to do something with their specific chemical compounds. Like I said the big difference between them is the pressure it takes for the system to be considered full, so one of them is probably less dense than the other?

I don't really know the answer to that, all of my knowledge at this point is based on the research I've done on the internet. A chemical engineer could probably give you a better answer than me. But that is definitely a resounding thing I found on the interwebs, that they are not compatible to work together but are in fact only compatible separate.

 

[DaltonGang]

That I do not know. I'm sure it has to do something with their specific chemical compounds. Like I said the big difference between them is the pressure it takes for the system to be considered full, so one of them is probably less dense than the other?

I don't really know the answer to that, all of my knowledge at this point is based on the research I've done on the internet. A chemical engineer could probably give you a better answer than me. But that is definitely a resounding thing I found on the interwebs, that they are not compatible to work together but are in fact only compatible separate.

Ok, thanks.

 

[mwilk012]

1234 is a 134 blend, but I still don't recommend trying to backfit it with the wrong refrigerant. For one, 1234 works better.

 

[DaltonGang]

1234 is a 134 blend, but I still don't recommend trying to backfit it with the wrong refrigerant. For one, 1234 works better.

It would still be interesting to know. Just because If I want to use 134a, I don't want to have to buy an evacuation tool.

 

[DaltonGang]

Well, a year went by, and I needed more freon. A very slow leak. I refuse to pay $70 a can for the new 1234yf freon, again. So, I bought the quick disconnect converters, that allow me to put the older R-134A freon. At $10 a.pound, it was a no brainer. It all hooked up with ease, and I now have a super cold a/c system again. Thanks to @Tredsdert 's original thread, and @Heimkehr for referring to the conversion kit. . The kit was $12.99 with free shipping. Solid, well made, and connects tightly.

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