Newbie Camber question

[RD-Man]

Had my first Colorado off-road experience with my son on the Crystal Lakes trail near Breck. We had an amazing time! I did have one question regarding camber for the more experienced folks here. At one point coming down the mountain on some pretty rough (for me, anyway) terrain, I was tilting over to the left at 18 degrees with the back end sliding to the left just slightly. This felt both exhilarating and terrifying for this newbie. My question is, how far over is too far over? This felt HUGE to me, but perhaps not so much? I realize that there are many factors that go into determining when you’re gonna tip over. I guess I’m just looking for a rough number I can go up to in my stock Willys. I’m afraid my son and I have officially been bitten by the off-roading bug… Thanks all!

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[GATORB8]

If you're just driving straight with a gradual increasing camber, you'll probably crap your pants before you tip it.

The most important thing is you have to have an understanding of how your actions impact the momentum of the vehicle. 30 degrees is one thing. Powering from 0 to 30 in a couple feet is very different.

Not the most confidence inspiring, but if you watch some youtube fail videos, try to figure out what each did wrong (and don't do that). You'll see what I'm talking about, almost every one will involve the skinny pedal.

 

[kah.mun.rah]

Downhill and tilting to the left, when the rear right tire leaves the ground that is when I start to butt pucker. For most scenarios, steer the direction the Jeep is tilting and roll through it with light braking and light throttle (avoid extreme braking or extreme throttle).

 

[Ratbert]

34 degrees of roll is the most I've ever tilted it. It's also the only time I've ever been scared in it.

Note that this was while rock crawling, not when on the side of a mountain.

 

[Old Jeeper]

Had my first Colorado off-road experience with my son on the Crystal Lakes trail near Breck. We had an amazing time! I did have one question regarding camber for the more experienced folks here. At one point coming down the mountain on some pretty rough (for me, anyway) terrain, I was tilting over to the left at 18 degrees with the back end sliding to the left just slightly. This felt both exhilarating and terrifying for this newbie. My question is, how far over is too far over? This felt HUGE to me, but perhaps not so much? I realize that there are many factors that go into determining when you’re gonna tip over. I guess I’m just looking for a rough number I can go up to in my stock Willys. I’m afraid my son and I have officially been bitten by the off-roading bug… Thanks all!

53-degree lean...that said this Jeep is HIGHLY modified and when I engineered it and included off-camber in the rocks...Big plus is NOBODY will ever ride with me.

The everyday Jeep, dunno. I will tell you this building to attain this was not easy, took a lot of shifting weight. Using a 4 corner weighing system I am +/- 25 lb all the way around at each tire

 

[RD-Man]

OMG!! That looks INSANE! I think that’s a ways off for me…

Thanks, all, for chiming in. 34 degrees is nearly twice where I was, which also seems kinda nuts. Obviously, I’ve got some room left to explore…

I will take all your sage advice into account next time I go out. l’ve watched some of those fail videos. Some are hilarious. Some are kinda scary… These folks must have tons of disposable cash just laying around…

Thanks again for sharing your experience. Time to go practice!!

 

[Old Jeeper]

OMG!! That looks INSANE! I think that’s a ways off for me…

Thanks, all, for chiming in. 34 degrees is nearly twice where I was, which also seems kinda nuts. Obviously, I’ve got some room left to explore…

I will take all your sage advice into account next time I go out. l’ve watched some of those fail videos. Some are hilarious. Some are kinda scary… These folks must have tons of disposable cash just laying around…

Thanks again for sharing your experience. Time to go practice!!

Off camber is very scary and prob not more than about 25 degrees, buy an angle meter and put it on the inside of your windshield centered.

There are ways to LOWER you CoG, even after you have done lifts etc. But it can really make you EAT you seat if you do not know your limits!

 

[At Risk Ute]

I don’t like the feeling of going past 20 degrees, especially downhill.

 

[GATORB8]

An oldie but goody. If you guys like to nerd out on this stuff, a few years back I was wondering the same thing and found the attached. It was a forum post on another forum about 20 years ago.

 

[jaymz]

For new drivers, "too far" is whatever it is that makes you panic and lose focus on vehicle control.
For experienced drivers, it depends on far too many variables to have an exact answer. 30 degrees is probably more than enough to make most seasoned drivers really pay attention.

 

[GATORB8]

For new drivers, "too far" is whatever it is that makes you panic and lose focus on vehicle control.
For experienced drivers, it depends on far too many variables to have an exact answer. 30 degrees is probably more than enough to make most seasoned drivers really pay attention.

Another way to help with the panic is to either get outside video, or simply get out and look at it. Early on it feels way worse than it looks. This also comes with a spotter you trust, if my wife is out spotting, I don't think twice about the angle.

At this point, I'm generally more concerned about what I'm leaning into, a ton of tougher off camber puts your top in a tree, rock, or over a ledge.

 

[Old Jeeper]

An oldie but goody. If you guys like to nerd out on this stuff, a few years back I was wondering the same thing and found the attached. It was a forum post on another forum about 20 years ago.

Read thru those and they are quite good and very detailed, but a bit time-consuming and complex to arrive at the answers. That said, its the tale of the tape.

My approach was different: I CAT scaled my Jeep and then I installed a set of Dynatrack ProRock 60 F/R w/Hi-Pinion's. That is a LOT of weight and it lowers your CoG as a bonus. Then I went FLAT & HEAVY with my TC/Tranns skid which is huge and extremely heavy.

Data Point 1: For every INCH you lift, you need to go OUT 1.5 inches on L/R sides

Then I got my hands on 4 scales and weight each corner at the same time. Did some juggling of this and that and ended up with +/- 25 lb all the way around.

The (you could say I backslid a bit) I aligned my drive train. This is why you go with Hi-Pinions. THis lets me run OEM length drive shafts and I have the drive line up in the tunnel as far as I can get it, which is about 2.5 inches. Engine, TC/Trans. The result of this is what I call invisible lift. I have a 3-3.5 lift suspension and then I lift the body 2.5 +/- and the drive line about 3 +/-.

SInce I am flat underneath I now have the = of a 5-6 in lift WITHOUT lifting the frame or the suspension.

Now go out find some rocks to lean on and see how far you can go off camber.

 

[RD-Man]

Wow!!! My head is spinning………

 

[yokramer]

Another way to help with the panic is to either get outside video, or simply get out and look at it. Early on it feels way worse than it looks. This also comes with a spotter you trust, if my wife is out spotting, I don't think twice about the angle.

At this point, I'm generally more concerned about what I'm leaning into, a ton of tougher off camber puts your top in a tree, rock, or over a ledge.

I need to get out with a group again and have my wife along to learn spotting. Or have her drive and get out and look a bunch while I spot. Cause right now her experience is pretty much reading while I drive around but I want to get to do some more challenging stuff on our own once I get the winch installed.

 

[GATORB8]

I need to get out with a group again and have my wife along to learn spotting. Or have her drive and get out and look a bunch while I spot. Cause right now her experience is pretty much reading while I drive around but I want to get to do some more challenging stuff on our own once I get the winch installed.

It's kind of like the first couple times you put a boat in as a couple, you don't want an audience, and you need to remember not to yell at each other, lol. Not that she can't observe someone else spotting you in a group.

Until she was comfortable driving, we'd get out and look at the obstacle together, and I'd talk her through the line I wanted her to put me on. Once she was comfortable spotting, we swapped seats and I started spotting her through stuff. Her having seat time made it so I didn't have to get out with her for most of the time, and she feels comfortable wheeling a lot more now.

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