New engine teething issues?

[GtX]

While sales was not their motive, FCA needs the diesel to help their CAFE number.

I don't buy it. If that was the primary goal they could have put the resources in the EV and had it to market already.

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[GtX]

How often does the engine need to fully warm up for the regen cycle to operate exactly as designed? Every time the Jeep is driven? Or...is it okay to have short hops as long as an occasional full warmup is thrown in every few days. As I've mentioned, I'm retired, so I don't have daily long commutes to optimize the regen.

According to the manual you'll get a message when a regen is needed. The direction is to take it for a drive, highway speed where you can maintain RPM, and let the regen happen. I only have about 200 miles on mine and haven't seen a regen yet.

I've been thinking lately about the ESS and whether it is better to let ESS happen or not. On one hand, this is reducing idle time. On the other hand, it lets the temperatures in the system drop some.

 

[flot]

How often does the engine need to fully warm up for the regen cycle to operate exactly as designed? Every time the Jeep is driven? Or...is it okay to have short hops as long as an occasional full warmup is thrown in every few days. As I've mentioned, I'm retired, so I don't have daily long commutes to optimize the regen.

From your comments, a diesel is not for you.

My BIL made the mistake of buying a Diesel GC - he's had to have it towed to the dealer 3 times now for diesel particulate problems, because he went from typical highway commuting to 100% in-town driving. The regen sequence is not optional, it's not like "it's good for the engine to warm up" the engine literally needs to have the particulates purged on a regular basis (every few hundred miles, which it does automatically in periods of highway driving by adjusting the fuel mixture to burn it off when you won't notice it) and if you don't do it, it you'll have a limited window of miles to make it happen or start suffering progressive issues which eventually result in getting towed to the dealer and a few hundred $ repair bill.

I was also vaguely interested in the diesel, but I can tell you that as my "low mileage 2nd car" I have driven the Wrangler about 1300 city miles in 4 months and 70 highway miles - because my Ram was in the shop the day I needed to take a quick 35 mile highway trip. A diesel was not for me either. Get the 3.6.

Obviously this is the previous-gen diesel, I'm just sharing the anecdotal feedback as it made my mind up as well. As a plus, the 3.6 seems to warm up lightning fast.

 

[BuffaloBill]

Now I just got this diesel JLUR Friday, so really have no idea yet if it will be reliable or not. But I have noticed already that the coolant temp reaches normal levels more quickly than my 2014 EcoDiesel does. That’s an improvement I believe.

It certainly is a pleasure to drive. Climbed a local fairly long grade today and noticed it took less perceived throttle to maintain 60mph than my Ram. It does “like” to work as does the gen2.

 

[toolaide4fit]

I’m not sure about the Jeep (perhaps @toolaide4fit has experienced /read about this) but newer diesels will go into a regen cycle when needed upon powering down. My brother works for the DOT and their new equipment does this. When powering off, it will idle high to raise the temperature and a notification will appear informing the operator that the rig is going through a regen.
Again, not sure if the Jeeps will do this, but if they do, and this happens—let it go. It will power down after about 10 minutes from what my brother has said about their newer diesel equipment.

I don't know when or what causes the regen to happen, but I do know that you get a message on your screen stating it is happening...KEEP DRIVING and let it finish. This is critical to the system and to maintain it.



Here is a picture of it.

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[JLURD]

Having said that, I'm on several Ram forums and Jeep forums and I haven't seen a single failure of a Gen 3 diesel yet. Not one hardware or software failure. The only problem that seems to exist is availability of maintenance parts such as oil filters, and the cost of oil changes. Nobody should ever buy the EcoDiesel planning to save money. It won't happen.

The trouble with absolutist statements like this is they’re rarely correct unless we’re in the realm of death and taxes. Some of us are lucky enough to live in places where diesel is less expensive than 87 and we do most of our own maintenance. Assuming we choose not to replace the DPF or EGR out of warranty, the engine pays for itself in fuel savings within 2-5 years of ownership depending on annual mileage. This topic has been hashed out at least two dozen times on this sub-forum alone, including with complete accounting of consumable fluid/filter costs between engines.

 

[SecondTJ]

I don't buy it. If that was the primary goal they could have put the resources in the EV and had it to market already.

Not enough demand for an EV Wrangler. They won’t sell enough of them to make a difference.

 

[JLURD]

Not enough demand for an EV Wrangler. They won’t sell enough of them to make a difference.

I think you’d be surprised. A ton of torque available all the time seems to interest quite a few folks on this forum. Not for me, but certainly seems to be interest in it. Range will be the determining factor for most.

 

[WXman]

The trouble with absolutist statements like this is they’re rarely correct unless we’re in the realm of death and taxes. Some of us are lucky enough to live in places where diesel is less expensive than 87 and we do most of our own maintenance. Assuming we choose not to replace the DPF or EGR out of warranty, the engine pays for itself in fuel savings within 2-5 years of ownership depending on annual mileage. This topic has been hashed out at least two dozen times on this sub-forum alone, including with complete accounting of consumable fluid/filter costs between engines.

We have indeed. We've hashed it out several times. We've used actual national average stats. Maybe you live in the boondocks where diesel is less than gasoline. Almost nobody else does. We've also done the math on the $5,000 upfront cost, the fact that maintenance is 5x more expensive IF you do it at home and 10x more expensive if you don't. We've talked about the need for DEF, and these Gen 3s seem to love DEF. We've talked about fuel filters, diesel additives for cold weather, etc. We've talked about how an exhaust system replacement on the diesel is the same cost as a Hemi longblock. We've talked about how one fuel system replacement on the diesel when that Bosch high pressure pump goes boom is up to $10,000 and sometimes isn't covered by warranty. And in the end, we've discovered that nobody buys the diesel engine to save money. Nobody.

You buy it for driveability. For torque. For towing. For slow speed offroad. You do not buy it to save money.

Payback in 2-5 years? Not happening unless you're making your own diesel fuel in the garage at home and you get free service and fluids for life.

 

[rickinAZ]

You buy it for driveability. For torque. For towing. For slow speed offroad. You do not buy it to save money.

I agree. While I'm not rich, I'm at the point in life where I'm willing to spend money to pursue an enjoyable experience. This is not, speaking only for myself, about financial justifications. But, if the drive-ability/reliability is suspect unless driven mostly on the highway, it won't meet my "enjoyable experience" criteria.

All of that said, what I'm hearing in this thread is that as long as there is a long, fully warmed up cycle, every 100-200 miles, the emissions system will be fine. And...if the regen is cycling, keep driving. Am I interpreting that correctly? Can the regen be "forced" on the occasion of a longer stint behind the wheel?

I'm a Porsche nut and this reminds me of the early 4-cam 356 Carrera motors in the mid/late 50s. You had to be careful to never bog the engine or the plugs would foul. There were eight of them to replace and you had to pull the engine to get to the rear cylinder ones.

 

[Andy-jr.]

Wow, you ordered your diesel August 2019. I thought the earliest you could order them was October 2019. If you ordered yours in August, you were the first one on this forum to order one in 2019.

Not sure where I got August from, Sorry it was October of 2019.

 

[JLDIESEL]

I'm planning on ordering a 2021 Diesel once the order banks open, so I've been closely watching everyone's initial experiences. There seems to be a few more early issues than I expected. Is anyone else concerned about the new power train? I jumped into a similar situation, newish engine (3.6) in established model, when I bought one of the very first 2012 JKs. But, that combo turned out to be totally trouble free over 50K miles. I currently have an ultra-low mileage 2016 that runs like a champ, but would really like to trade for a Diesel. That said, if the modifications made to recertify the diesel emissions technology are over complicated (and brittle), I'm not so sure.

I have no experience with diesels, but from the outside looking in, I'm slightly alarmed. Should I be? Please reassure me that this is a good thing after we've waited so long.

The (supposed) reliability risk in making only short hops is especially concerning.

I sold my beloved 2012 for my diesel and have no regrets. The power and sound is amazing. Enjoy life and get the most powerful wrangler there is.

 

[JLURD]

We have indeed. We've hashed it out several times. We've used actual national average stats. Maybe you live in the boondocks where diesel is less than gasoline. Almost nobody else does. We've also done the math on the $5,000 upfront cost, the fact that maintenance is 5x more expensive IF you do it at home and 10x more expensive if you don't. We've talked about the need for DEF, and these Gen 3s seem to love DEF. We've talked about fuel filters, diesel additives for cold weather, etc. We've talked about how an exhaust system replacement on the diesel is the same cost as a Hemi longblock. We've talked about how one fuel system replacement on the diesel when that Bosch high pressure pump goes boom is up to $10,000 and sometimes isn't covered by warranty. And in the end, we've discovered that nobody buys the diesel engine to save money. Nobody.

You buy it for driveability. For torque. For towing. For slow speed offroad. You do not buy it to save money.

Payback in 2-5 years? Not happening unless you're making your own diesel fuel in the garage at home and you get free service and fluids for life.

Whatever helps you sleep at night. I did the math for my projected annual mileage of 25k with my fuel, oil, filters, DEF, fuel additive costs, and outside of a costly non-emission system failure out of warranty, I break even just before year three. I didn’t buy the 3.0 to save money and would have paid the premium even if my long term costs were guaranteed to be more on top...but any decent betting man who understands that the majority of these engines are not going to run into $5-10k reliability issues after 36k miles would put their money on this rig saving me money in the long run.

 

[toolaide4fit]

I had a diesel and now I have another, so the cost is no different so it doesn't cost me more than what I was paying. So, the gas mileage is definitely better and will SAVE me money every time I fill up the tank. So this is a matter of perspective for each person. If you came from a gas sipping Prius or the like you are going to spend more money in maintenance and fuel. (Except those expensive batteries they not one every talks about the will need replaced). So the question still remains, WHY are you considering buying a diesel Jeep? Again, either you can afford it or not. My wife likes luxury cars and has 2 Mercedes...but she said tonight she real loves the Jeep! I am RICH now! LOL!

 

[Benagi]

Whatever helps you sleep at night. I did the math for my projected annual mileage of 25k with my fuel, oil, filters, DEF, fuel additive costs, and outside of a costly non-emission system failure out of warranty, I break even just before year three. I didn’t buy the 3.0 to save money and would have paid the premium even if my long term costs were guaranteed to be more on top...but any decent betting man who understands that the majority of these engines are not going to run into $5-10k reliability issues after 36k miles would put their money on this rig saving me money in the long run.

Wow, breakeven in less than three years. Not in Utah, diesel is $.30 a gallon more than regular gasoline.

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