Multiple Codes 500 miles after replacing rockers/ lifters and camshaft.

[AVGeek99]

Long Story....
I replaced my lifters/ rockers and intake camshaft on the bank 1 side about 500 miles ago. Over a year ago I replaced my clutch and broke a wire going to my neutral safety switch which caused the ESS light to come on and ever since the jeep does not know what gear it is so the reverse lights/ rear camera do not come on when I put it in reverse. That's the history.

The problem. Last week when travelling up a steady incline the ESS goes off and I could feel a loss in power. I was in 4th and downshifted the 3rd where it felt as if the power had returned as I crested the slight incline and drove the jeep to my destination maybe 10 miles and turned it off. When I came back out and turned it over the ESS light was back on and drove home with no issues. Fast forward to yesterday and I was driving out of town and the first steady incline I hit again the ESS light cut off and I felt the loss of power. This time I was in 5th and down shifted to 4th where I felt a slight return in power. I continued on my trip which was a ~2 hr drive. For the rest of the trip I was unable to go above 70mph even when in 5th going downhill. I made most of the drive in 4th at 3200-3500rpm to keep it around 70mph. Steady inclines still caused an issue sometimes having downshift to 3rd. We stayed at our location and returned today. Todays drive started with a steeper incline leaving the river and again the ESS light goes off/ loss of power but this time the check engine light comes on. I drove the rest of the way home mostly downhill and didn't have many moments where I could feel the loss of power. I had the codes scanned on my way home and got P219A/ P000A/ P105C/ P0456. I listed the codes and parts I could find below.

The big question is because it threw so many codes at once is it most likely the ECM or could the neutral safety sensor switch not working finally catching up to me or is actually one of the many cheaper pieces that has gone bad by coincidence

Codes w/ definitions and fixes:

P219A

Bank 1 Air-Fuel Ratio Imbalance

The definition of code P219A is “Bank 1 Air-Fuel Ratio Imbalance.” This code indicates that the powertrain control module (PCM) or engine control module (ECM) has detected that the cylinder in Bank 1 has an air-fuel ratio outside the manufacturer's specifications.

Mass Air Flow Sensor - A faulty mass airflow sensor will cause problems similar to low compression or low vacuum, and will also show symptoms similar to when your vehicle has low fuel pressure from a faulty fuel pump. Thus, replace damaged/faulty MAF sensor today! PART NOT FOUND

Engine Control Module - There can be some engine performance issues due to faulty engine control module. If the ECM fails or has any problems it can lead to performance issues with the vehicle like misfires, hesitation, loss of power, and sometimes even decreased fuel economy. MOPAR FACTORY DIRECT Engine Controller Module - Mopar (68330909AA) $171.36

Oxygen Sensor - An oxygen sensor plays a vital role in the fuel delivery system and air to fuel ratio mixing functions. Without this sensor proper combustion of fuel cannot take place, thus causing performance issues. Also, the exhaust system will not be able to detect the emissions properly if this sensor becomes inactive, resulting in increased emissions from the exhaust. Thus replace faulty oxygen sensor today! OXYGEN SENSOR (68224424AA) $54.19

Fluid Pump - If the fluid pump is physically damaged, it can result in leakage, loss of pressure and harsh shifting. Thus, the fluid pump must be replaced, if found damaged. Buy new fluid pump from us now! PART NOT FOUND

Powertrain Control Module - PCM stands for powertrain control module. It is a car part, a control unit which is utilized on motor vehicles. It is generally a combined control unit, consisting of the engine control unit (ECU) and the transmission control unit (TCU). PART NOT FOUND

Fuel Injector - Affected fuel injectors can cause reduced performance and throttle response. It can also affect the fuel economy and affect the engine emission. Thus, replace faulty fuel injector now! Fuel Injector - Mopar (5281427AA) $32.25

Electronic Control Unit - If your automobile's check engine light remains on constantly, and never goes off, there's a good chance that your vehicle has a damaged electronic control unit. There are a lot of reasons why a car's check engine light will remain on. The most common reason is a defective ECU. PART NOT FOUND




P000A

The P000A OBD diagnostic error code indicates that there is an issue with the car's 'A' camshaft position, particularly in Bank 1, and shows that there is a slow response. This is a generic powertrain domestic trouble code for cars equipped with variable valve or cam timing.

• Some of the issues that could trigger the code include a malfunctioning camshaft position sensor, a bad oil control valve, and a faulty variable valve timing (VVT) actuator. OIL CONTROL VALVE (5047787AC)$92.50 CAMSHAFT SENSOR (5149141AF) $51.19

P105C

P105c is "intake valve stuck in low lift position". Caused by: VVL solenoid failure. rocker arm lock pin broken/missing. There are four Variable Valve Lift (VVL) Solenoids that control the operation of the Intake Rocker Arms for all six cylinders

Cause:
VVL SOLENOID STUCK OPEN ALLOWING OIL PRESSURE TO ONE OR MORE ROCKER ARM
ROCKER ARM LOCK PIN BROKEN/MISSING
ROCKER ARM IMPROPERLY INSTALLED/INCORRECT CLEARANCE BETWEEN A ROCKER ARM AND THE HIGH LIFT (CENTER) CAMSHAFT LOBE
EXCESSIVE WEAR ON A HIGH LIFT (CENTER) CAMSHAFT LOBE
WORN ROCKER ARM


P0456

P0456 there is a small leak detected.

This codes comes and goes a few times each year.

Your issue as you describe it is identical to an issue I had last March when I was in Moab. Any steady incline would cause me to lose power having to downshift to maintain speed. On some inclines I was downshifting to 3rd just to keep it at 50mph. Turning it off for 5 minutes or so and restarting seemed to make the issue go away, but as soon as I got on a long incline the issue would recur. The CEL starting lighting about a day later. The only code mine was throwing was P000A. I ended up getting it into the dealer in Grand Junction. They replaced driver side intake cam, lifters, rocker arms and all was good.

A few months before the failure I thought I noticed a ticking sound coming from the engine. I didn't think much of it because thought the sound may have always been there. It is a pretty loud running engine. When I got home from Moab I didn't have to research too hard to find a lot of others reporting excessive cam, lifter, rocker arm failures, most mentioned the ticking sound.

Four or five months ago I noticed the ticking sound again. I asked the dealer about it when I got an oil change in about September and they said it was nothing. It continued to get worse, though the engine always ran fine and there hasn't been any CELs. I asked again when I had it in for another oil change just before New Years. This time they agreed the ticking sound wasn't normal.

I got an appt on Jan 17th and the dealer has had it ever since. They tore it down and tell me they did a full inspection. They are replacing the same driver side intake cam, lifters, and rocker arms. Part of the delay was waiting for parts. I should have it back tomorrow afternoon.

I'm kind of nervous about the engine. I want to have this Jeep for many years,and it's my daily driver. I've now had this cam, lifter, rocker arm failure at 26k and 42k miles. When is it going to happen next?

Sponsored

 

[Mandalorian]

Went out and got a better OBD2 scanner. See pics attached. Cam2 both sides run at -2ish. Cam 1 one side at-2 the other at -5. Looks like it might be out of time by a tooth? Any other ideas why it would off. 1 cam is new and the other is old on the CAM1 side. Would that cause it to be off?

 

[mwilk012]

It’s impossible to know but did they do the cam/crank relearn procedure?

Can that tool display actual vs desired? Being off from zero isn’t necessarily a problem if it is requested to be.

 

[Mandalorian]

It’s impossible to know but did they do the cam/crank relearn procedure?

Can that tool display actual vs desired? Being off from zero isn’t necessarily a problem if it is requested to be.

Finally found someone that has an ODB scanner that can do the relearn on a Chrysler and due to it having other codes it could not complete the relearn process. Going to attempt to fix the other issues then try again

I believe the timing is off a tooth and will pull the cover to see if they align correctly. The fuel injector replacement went smooth

 

[mwilk012]

Finally found someone that has an ODB scanner that can do the relearn on a Chrysler and due to it having other codes it could not complete the relearn process. Going to attempt to fix the other issues then try again

I believe the timing is off a tooth and will pull the cover to see if they align correctly. The fuel injector replacement went smooth

Which codes do you still have coming back? Just the timing performance slow response or still with the VVL stuck on?

 

[bllprk]

I have a history here....

I have a previous post about a poor running engine. Very Similar

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...-rough-idle-stalling-rich-fuel-3-6-mt.121106/

Tip 1: Buy J-scan and a bluetooth adapter. There is a feature called Cleaning the Oil Control valves. This actuates the oil control valves on the phasers very quickly and helps to keep the oil control valves working correctly. You should hear a rapid clicking when you run this cleaning program. If you don't, the oil control valve could be sticking.

Tip 2: My oil control valves were jammed shut. If you remove the Phaser actuators from the front of the valve covers, you can press down on the center of the oil control valve. You can 'unjam' them. Not sure if this is a long term fix, but it made my jeep run again.

Tip 3: The data you are looking at above with the position of the cam changes all the time. What you want to monitor, while you are driving is the Intake Cam 1 Position Error. This should be close to zero for all 4 cam shafts. You can watch this value on J-scan as you drive. If one of the phasers is not working properly, you can see it work fine at low RPM but at High RPM you may see one of the errors to be way off. If these values are always close to zero as you drive around, then you know the VVT (phasers) are working properly. I see mine off by 134deg when its bad. +/- 5deg seems to be normal.

Tip 4: Monitor Mis-Fires with the Jscan app as well. See if its bank 1 or bank 2. This gives you more info on if the rockers are bad for the entire bank or just a single cylinder.

All this said, I have not solved my issue. It seems to come and go. I am working towards finding what's up, but all this above will give you more info.

I am still trying to find a way to use J-scan to monitor the VVL system. The VVL system uses the solenoids you showed, to shift the point that the rocker and the cam lob interface with.

NOTE: If you are getting your mis-fires or issues with Bank 1 only, I would swap the solenoids with Bank 2 and see if you can get the mis-fires to change banks.

 

[Mandalorian]

Which codes do you still have coming back? Just the timing performance slow response or still with the VVL stuck on?

The timing slow response and the stuck in lift position code are still there. I may have found a fix for the codes my buddy believes are keeping it from doing the relearn. I will find out later today. Looks like a plug issue.

 

[mwilk012]

The timing slow response and the stuck in lift position code are still there. I may have found a fix for the codes my buddy believes are keeping it from doing the relearn. I will find out later today. Looks like a plug issue.

Spark plug? I don’t see how that could be.

 

[Mandalorian]

Spark plug? I don’t see how that could be.

Not a spark plug. It’s the plug that goes to the neutral saftey switch sensor. I broke it years ago and could never find the right plug. So I’m getting a kit to see if I can build one. I bought some generic ones and there were different issues with each one and mopar factory parts will only sell the whole wiring harness for $400. Didn’t bother me till I was told it is stopping the relearn from working.

 

[mwilk012]

That shouldn’t affect the VVL though, it doesn’t need to be learned. How is your oil pressure?

 

[Mandalorian]

That shouldn’t affect the VVL though, it doesn’t need to be learned. How is your oil pressure?

Oil pressure and temp are good. I’ve been tracking them for weeks now.

 

[mwilk012]

Oil pressure and temp are good. I’ve been tracking them for weeks now.

I’m not sure which connector you’re talking about still. There isn’t a separate neutral safety switch on the ZF 8 speed.

 

[Mandalorian]

Another tear down this weekend. I was thinking I was a tooth off which was causing my issues. I was going to pull the front of the motor but believe I’ve found the issue. The entire time I’ve been working on bank and this is first time I’ve opened up bank 2. I wanted to make sure the 2 sides were lined up and they are. As soon as I got it lined top dead I noticed the intake oil valve controls looked different. Seems the left side control valve had collapsed at the top so it was not fully opening. Order a new one and will put it back together and hopefully no more limp mode.

Sponsored