More great decision-making from Stellantis

[The Last Cowboy]

But they are appointed by elected officials, hence the representative government piece.

I get what you’re saying, and understand that many believe that. But do those appointees really have to concern themselves with running election campaigns or worry about being voted out? No. Their appointer does, but does a significant portion of the voting public really understand the connection? There would have to be a monumental public blunder that comes under the scrutiny of the press for the elected appointer to be held accountable. And even then, usually one person will take the blame so that the appointer can publicly force that person to resign and leave the majority entrenched. Recent examples are the Secret Service, FBI, and Homeland Security. FEMA will prob be next. All bureaucracies run by a super majority of appointees.

Many, if not most, bureaucracies are wrought with corruption. Appointees don’t worry about being ousted unless the political winds make a hard change. Even then, most will kiss ass and make false promises to retain their seats. Yes, even here in Texas. Government is too big. Bureaucracies have become more powerful than our elected officials. In many cases it is them kissing the asses of appointees. No wonder elections are rarely able to actually affect any kind of meaningful change. Each party is one side or the other of the same old dirty worn coin. The less effective the elected officials, the more a bureaucracy begins to function according to it’s own agenda, nearly unable to be held in check by anyone.

Sponsored

 

[NWJeepr]

Nevertheless appointed by elected officials in one state when they have national effect.
This should not be.

Incorrect.

CARB has effect only in states where elected officials adopt CARB rules as part of their own state government clean air laws to enforce beyond EPA minimums.

 

[Kyanche]

Incorrect.

CARB has effect only in states where elected officials adopt CARB rules as part of their own state government clean air laws to enforce beyond EPA minimums.

The argument is that because most people live in CARB states, it's not economically feasible for most car companies to produce non-CARB and CARB models of their cars. So effectively, those of us in CARB states are forcing those in non-CARB states to drive CARB-compliant cars even if they don't want to.

I think there's a lot more to be said about nuance and why CARB even existed in the first place. It's probably fair to say the policies have been perverted a bit over the years to where we're getting idle emissions standards that encourage stuff like ESS, complicated DEF emissions controls on diesels, and overweight EVs that produce tons of particulate emissions by shredding their tires way more aggressively.

I say that all as someone who is fine with CARB and likes encouraging people to buy reasonable EVs or hybrids.

 

[2nd 392]

Incorrect.

CARB has effect only in states where elected officials adopt CARB rules as part of their own state government clean air laws to enforce beyond EPA minimums.

Absolutely correct
Again- how many vehicles are not produced 50 state compliant ?
Do mfg’s produce both fed and CARB compliant variants ?
Would you produce vehicles that cannot be registered in 18 states ?
With rare exceptions they don’t.
CARB standards are essentially national standards for new vehicles.
Yes, non CARB state owners can do federal compliant performance upgrades we cannot. But they could not then be registered in a CARB state. Just as 22 392 buyers in non CARB states were finding the “Additional California Emissions Equipment” charge ($8/900) not requested when ordering and having to have it removed. The dealers arguing to keep it because it couldn’t be registered in a CARB state without it.
CARB does indeed set new vehicle emissions standards. This should not be !

 

[Kyanche]

Recent examples are the Secret Service, FBI, and Homeland Security. FEMA will prob be next. All bureaucracies run by a super majority of appointees.

I believe every major agency should be run by an elected lead and be independent of other government bodies. It makes sense to me that any agency that uses taxpayer money needs to remain accountable to the taxpayers.

I guess this just kinda comes from growing up in California though. Our ballots are huge lol. We don't really go with the "elect a dude and trust them to make ALL the decisions for us" route. I think that's partially because nobody's perfect - you will NEVER have a single person who you agree with all of their policy stances. Letting people pick all the policies is more work - requires a lot more education too, but I think it's better at the end of the day.

We do get some ridiculous ballot measures sometimes though lol.

 

[Kyanche]

Absolutely correct
Again- how many vehicles are not produced 50 state compliant ?
Do mfg’s produce both fed and CARB compliant variants ?

The Jeep Wrangler, actually! Stellantis does currently produce non-CARB-compliant Wranglers and sell them in non-CARB states.

I have no idea what the heck the difference is, but that is in fact a thing.

Edit: And as I recall, these are 3.6 and 2.0T versions. Nothing to do with the 392 or the diesel.

Edit: Trying to dig up a post about it, I saw that you reported that stellantis stopped doing that in 2022. Well what the heck LOL. Ok whatever.

The thing I think really sucks about CARB compliance is it's really hard to do engine swaps. Like, if you have a 2020 wrangler 3.6 and want to swap a 2020 charger hellcat engine into it.... and both were carb compliant to the same standards!!! Yea.... good luck. It's not impossible! But very very hard.

 

[azjl#3]

What ever happened to states' rights and supporting union labor?

Really though, I think the population of the various states should decide what they want.

the EPA laws override anything states come up with, just no one took Ca to court

 

[2nd 392]

The Jeep Wrangler, actually! Stellantis does currently produce non-CARB-compliant Wranglers and sell them in non-CARB states.

I have no idea what the heck the difference is, but that is in fact a thing.

Edit: And as I recall, these are 3.6 and 2.0T versions. Nothing to do with the 392 or the diesel.

Interesting- never mentioned on the forum. I would like to see more on this, haven’t heard of it . If so, how to order and the number of the non CARB variants would be interesting.

 

[gato]

This is just posturing to get politicians to relax the mandate.

The reality is that Tesla just reported record EV credits revenue, by selling offsetting credits to Stelantis et al. This will just increase massively in 2025.

 

[2nd 392]

the EPA laws override anything states come up with, just no one took Ca to court

Unfortunately Ca was granted the right by the federal government in 1967 as previously posted. The process to require Ca to again conform to federal standards was dropped in January 2021.

 

[Kyanche]

The reality is that Tesla just reported record EV credits revenue, by selling offsetting credits to Stelantis et al. This will just increase massively in 2025.

Yea, for whatever it's worth, I live out near Los Angeles and see EVs all the time. Like, where I live it's not unusual to pull up to a light and see 2-3 model 3s. I pretty much see a cybertruck every time I leave my house (unfortunately) lol.

The really weird part is lately I've been seeing a vinfast pretty much every time too... that concerns me, but there is a dealership in town LOL.

I have yet to see an EV on fire. Thank goodness. But yea. Never seen it. Never heard about one in the news either.

Meh. I do think the concept of an "EV mandate" is dumb.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Yes but that limits your freedoms to pollute all over your friends and neighbors and make them sick and give them asthma.

BRUH I need to do an emissions delete on an ECO diesel and then spew black smoke everywhere :D




The funny thing is Toyota has been doing this time and time again for ages. And back in the 80s we had econo shitboxes that got like 40mpg (admittedly by epa's hopes and prayers standards back then).

But yeeaaah if you stuck a camry/prius/whatever drivetrain in a jeep wrangler it'd probably get like 18-20mpg. Maybe.

I'm going to go on a limb here and say just because something's legal on the road in Texas doesn't mean we should allow it on the road in California. That sets a really stupid precedent, but hear me out here: Those mud trucks that ride 4ft off the ground shouldn't be allowed on public roads except maybe during emergencies.

Then again, precedents are a pain. We'd have to set up a giant parking lot in primm for all the noncompliant people to park and rent a prius LOL

Please don't take anything I wrote in this post too seriously.

The commerce clause says that if your registered vehicle in your home state is legal in Texas, it is in fact legal to drive on the street in CA. Easy examples include a front license plates, required in CA. Some states don't even issue front plates. You can still legal drive in CA on vacation or whatever and they cannot ticket you. Moving violations apply to everyone, code bs is actually based on your registered location. If your home state allows front windows tinted, you don't have to remove it to travel. If your home state allowed you to delete your cat, you don't have to reinstall to drive across state lines. Even more ridiculous, most of the foothill and mountain counties IN California don't participate in the biannual smog check program, I wonder where their added pollution settles? Right into those liberal low land communities that passed the smog requirements.

 

[Zandcwhite]

Incorrect.

CARB has effect only in states where elected officials adopt CARB rules as part of their own state government clean air laws to enforce beyond EPA minimums.

Which happens to be the vast majority of the nation by population? In fact, CA is now dictating national policies for citizens and manufacturers whether or not those other states volunteered for it or not. In my opinion it is no different than those states deciding should the other party win the presidency that Gavin Newsome is their president.

 

[Bohica]

So look like the real cost of policy is starting to show.
Wonder where E-fuel fit in all this

I'm old enough to remember when EV owners were asked to not charge their vehicles due to excessive demand on the grid.

 

[Omen]

... does a significant portion of the voting public really understand the connection?...

Only if it's posted on Social Media. The Lemmings are just too stupid...

Sponsored