Manual Transmission - Issues shifting into 1st & Reverse (Compilation thread)

[BHank0688]

2018 JLUS CFII, did the vacuum trick for over 24 hours. Did notice a slow drop of 1 pound within the first hour, reset to 15# and it held. overnight Clutch pedal feels much better and no unusual noises. Will test drive and post later.

Did you have noises coming from it before you bleed it? Sorry if I missed you saying that already.

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[58Willys]

Well, I still have fuse 80 out, got locked IN 1st and reverse twice today. Quite a struggle to get out of it too. Truck was fully hot.

Had the truck start moving with clutch IN 1st gear at a redlight. Clutch is hanging up for sure. I tried pumping, still didnt fully release. So thats great, lmao

I'm in the process of buying another car to daily drive, my 62,000 dollar 2023 Gladiator is not the reliable vehicle I hoped it would be. Heck, I cant offroad it even, afraid to get stranded out there as it gets worse symptoms.

So thats great.

Well, at least you’ve eliminated the gear lock out as a cause; good on you for knocking this off the list.

Even if the disk is hung up on the splines, without any pressure from the pressure plate, there wouldn’t be sufficient friction to roll the vehicle forward. I don’t think the stock hydraulic system has sufficient force to completely disengage the clutch. Hopefully one of the aftermarket manufacturers is working on a sol to this.

 

[Duece McCracken]

Well, at least you’ve eliminated the gear lock out as a cause; good on you for knocking this off the list.

Even if the disk is hung up on the splines, without any pressure from the pressure plate, there wouldn’t be sufficient friction to roll the vehicle forward. I don’t think the stock hydraulic system has sufficient force to completely disengage the clutch. Hopefully one of the aftermarket manufacturers is working on a sol to this.

Im running the Centerforce hydraulics. Master, slave and SS line on an ACT Promass.

It wasnt enough clamp to really go, you could feel it gently try though. First time thats happened.

I'm going to have to drop the trans again and see wtf is going on.

I had 15,000 miles of great function, swapping full hydraulics and bleeding changed nothing. So pretty sure its not directly hydraulics.

Maybe dirty input shaft splines and dirty release bearing guide tube. Something is binding up or not traveling far enough.

Just weird that it took 15k miles to be a problem, and its happening to other brands of clutches too.

 

[Duece McCracken]

Does the CF line clip on anywhere? With the OEM it has 2 clips onto the firewall and then sits in a bracket attached to the transmission.

Just did an oil change, so I finally grabbed the clutch line pic!! Yeah, i should properly twist off that ty-wrap end, lol



Additionally, I borescoped the top of the trans and checked the shifter cables and brackets underneath. Everything is tight, no debris, shifts perfect while not running.

Looked over hydraulics. Fluid level is the same, no leaks at master, no leaks at slave. I popped one bellhousing weephole plug, dry as a bone.

I then take it down the driveway to whip it around, stuck in first, then locked out of reverse, overall this stuff is getting worse.

 

[Duece McCracken]

I think I may pop the slave out, manually move the clutch fork/release bearing off the pressure plate, use the borescope to aim, and blast the input shaft with some brake clean.

If I can visually see gunk on the shaft, I'll blast it. Going to comb through old borescope pics now.

 

[Duece McCracken]

Too lazy to pull them off the scope. You can see the release bearing guide tube extends into the PP, blocking any chance of me getting any kind of precision spraying. I'd have to rig a straw extention, get it between the PP fingers and blast.

Which would either make things worse, or maybe point us in a direction.

Im very excited to drive a different car. Lmao

 

[SadRobot]

Too lazy to pull them off the scope. You can see the release bearing guide tube extends into the PP, blocking any chance of me getting any kind of precision spraying. I'd have to rig a straw extention, get it between the PP fingers and blast.

Which would either make things worse, or maybe point us in a direction.

Im very excited to drive a different car. Lmao

Yeah without dropping the transmission I don't think anything will have much of a change, unfortunately.

 

[m3reno]

I think I may pop the slave out, manually move the clutch fork/release bearing off the pressure plate, use the borescope to aim, and blast the input shaft with some brake clean.

If I can visually see gunk on the shaft, I'll blast it. Going to comb through old borescope pics now.

Once you remove the grease what will be your fix? My other question is, why don't all manual transmissions bind at 10,000 miles as I'm sure their splines get dust on them also. Is the Jeep transmission unique vs a standard vehicle?

 

[m3reno]

I'm in New Jersey if you need a hand over the weekend and your not that fat away I can take a trip and help you . I think it's a two hour ride.

 

[Gator Overland]

I used to 100%

Throwing in my own anecdotes in case it helps with identifying the issue(s).

I had the ACT pro mass installed June 2023, about 13k miles ago.

Started experiencing first and second gear lockout approximately 2 months ago. Behavior is similar to the 1st gear lockout when going too fast.

I noticed that once the lockout starts happening, it will lock me out if I spend ANY time in neutral with foot off the clutch.

If I come to a stop and keep the clutch depressed the entire time, I have no issues entering first gear. (This is one of my methods to bypass the issue)

However, as soon as I release the clutch and depress it again, I am locked out.

When I am locked out, I also have difficulty trying 3rd gear. I am able to shift into 4, and that seems to release 1 and 2. (This is my other method of bypassing the issue)

It seems that sometimes it locks me IN gear, where it becomes challenging to shift to neutral. Releasing the clutch a bit seems to alleviate this when it happens.

When locked IN GEAR, I have also noticed my Jeep moving forward even with the clutch fully depressed. I also notice a groaning sound when this happens at a stop, as if it is trying to move forward but can’t because my foot is on the brake.

I used to 100% have the exact same symptoms before changing out my slave cylinder.
When you mentioned locking in gear and having trouble getting back into neutral, I always noticed this was in instances where I was revving and feathering the clutch (not fully releasing or engaging) trying to make small movements, such as backing up a trailer or three point turn, and I would feel the stick lock… Revving again, while disengaged would allow for it to pull into neutral with minimal effort. I’m not sure if this is what you noticed as well and is why i replied.

 

[Duece McCracken]

Once you remove the grease what will be your fix? My other question is, why don't all manual transmissions bind at 10,000 miles as I'm sure their splines get dust on them also. Is the Jeep transmission unique vs a standard vehicle?

I'm just throwing darts at a board. The trans has to come out for proper troubleshooting. This is just one of the two things I havnt attempted yet that doesnt require me dropping the trans.

It's more about just trying to get some of the grease off, not all of it. Really just seeing if it helps or hurts.

 

[SadRobot]

Ok all I finally have some good news to report. After several weeks of corresponding with @Actman to troubleshoot we were finally able to find a time for me to get my Jeep up to ACT in Lancaster, CA. Here is what we discovered. I forgot to take pictures so I'll describe everything the best I can.

- The issue with my clutch was the grease as Dirk suspected. The transmission shop told me they used the purple grease that comes from the kit but after opening it up it was clear that the grease on my splines was red and had a tacky, sticky and almost sap like feel. They used some sort of bearing grease that mixed with the clutch disc dust and formed this goop that was causing the clutch to drag. It looks like it just took several months and 10k miles for this symptoms to start happening.

- It is still unclear where and when the leak of my hydraulics falls into all of this. I 100% did have a leak at the hydraulic line connection to the master. So once that was discovered and remedied my problem with the spline grease manifested itself again. I don't believe there was ever anything wrong with my original slave and master cylinders that have since been replaced.

- My clutch was removed and bench tested. It all tested fine. There was no issue with the actual clutch parts. The wear on my clutch disc was also very minimal for having at this point about 14k miles on it.

- The croaking sound was coming from inside the bell housing.

It was not from the hydraulic parts NOR the clutch itself (as the bench test proved). It seems to be caused by the ball that the clutch fork pivots on. There was some uneven wear at the end of the ball and the paint had worn away at almost a point inside the clutch fork pocket. They cleaned this all out and we'll see if the croaking comes back but for now I have not heard that particular sound again (I drove about 60 miles back home).

- The drive home from Lancaster was shift issue free! Jeep is driving/shifting normal again.

It was such a huge relief after 3 months and over 2k spent to finally find out what was going on. A huge thanks to ACT, Dirk and his whole crew. I got to spend the whole day at their facility and they are just a great company with great people who just love clutches and want to make vehicles (including Jeeps) shift better.

Dirk and I talked a lot about what a difference the ACT makes in compared to the stock clutch when wheeling. I can't wait to get my Jeep back on the trails!

 

[gek]

Ok all I finally have some good news to report. After several weeks of corresponding with @Actman to troubleshoot we were finally able to find a time for me to get my Jeep up to ACT in Lancaster, CA. Here is what we discovered. I forgot to take pictures so I'll describe everything the best I can.

- The issue with my clutch was the grease as Dirk suspected. The transmission shop told me they used the purple grease that comes from the kit but after opening it up it was clear that the grease on my splines was red and had a tacky, sticky and almost sap like feel. They used some sort of bearing grease that mixed with the clutch disc dust and formed this goop that was causing the clutch to drag. It looks like it just took several months and 10k miles for this symptoms to start happening.

- It is still unclear where and when the leak of my hydraulics falls into all of this. I 100% did have a leak at the hydraulic line connection to the master. So once that was discovered and remedied my problem with the spline grease manifested itself again. I don't believe there was ever anything wrong with my original slave and master cylinders that have since been replaced.

- My clutch was removed and bench tested. It all tested fine. There was no issue with the actual clutch parts. The wear on my clutch disc was also very minimal for having at this point about 14k miles on it.

- The croaking sound was coming from inside the bell housing.

It was not from the hydraulic parts NOR the clutch itself (as the bench test proved). It seems to be caused by the ball that the clutch fork pivots on. There was some uneven wear at the end of the ball and the paint had worn away at almost a point inside the clutch fork pocket. They cleaned this all out and we'll see if the croaking comes back but for now I have not heard that particular sound again (I drove about 60 miles back home).

- The drive home from Lancaster was shift issue free! Jeep is driving/shifting normal again.

It was such a huge relief after 3 months and over 2k spent to finally find out what was going on. A huge thanks to ACT, Dirk and his whole crew. I got to spend the whole day at their facility and they are just a great company with great people who just love clutches and want to make vehicles (including Jeeps) shift better.

Dirk and I talked a lot about what a difference the ACT makes in compared to the stock clutch when wheeling. I can't wait to get my Jeep back on the trails!

@Actman can you give us some info on the correct grease. I think I found what it is, but don't want to say here in case it is the wrong grease and someone uses it.

 

[Duece McCracken]

Lmao, well there it is!!!

I guess I'll be sorting mine out soon enough.

 

[notthenewguy]

Ok all I finally have some good news to report. After several weeks of corresponding with @Actman to troubleshoot we were finally able to find a time for me to get my Jeep up to ACT in Lancaster, CA. Here is what we discovered. I forgot to take pictures so I'll describe everything the best I can.

- The issue with my clutch was the grease as Dirk suspected. The transmission shop told me they used the purple grease that comes from the kit but after opening it up it was clear that the grease on my splines was red and had a tacky, sticky and almost sap like feel. They used some sort of bearing grease that mixed with the clutch disc dust and formed this goop that was causing the clutch to drag. It looks like it just took several months and 10k miles for this symptoms to start happening.

- It is still unclear where and when the leak of my hydraulics falls into all of this. I 100% did have a leak at the hydraulic line connection to the master. So once that was discovered and remedied my problem with the spline grease manifested itself again. I don't believe there was ever anything wrong with my original slave and master cylinders that have since been replaced.

- My clutch was removed and bench tested. It all tested fine. There was no issue with the actual clutch parts. The wear on my clutch disc was also very minimal for having at this point about 14k miles on it.

- The croaking sound was coming from inside the bell housing.

It was not from the hydraulic parts NOR the clutch itself (as the bench test proved). It seems to be caused by the ball that the clutch fork pivots on. There was some uneven wear at the end of the ball and the paint had worn away at almost a point inside the clutch fork pocket. They cleaned this all out and we'll see if the croaking comes back but for now I have not heard that particular sound again (I drove about 60 miles back home).

- The drive home from Lancaster was shift issue free! Jeep is driving/shifting normal again.

It was such a huge relief after 3 months and over 2k spent to finally find out what was going on. A huge thanks to ACT, Dirk and his whole crew. I got to spend the whole day at their facility and they are just a great company with great people who just love clutches and want to make vehicles (including Jeeps) shift better.

Dirk and I talked a lot about what a difference the ACT makes in compared to the stock clutch when wheeling. I can't wait to get my Jeep back on the trails!

glad to hear they sorted it out for you. When I took my jeep to them they also said the shop had used the wrong grease with my install. Still haven’t gotten around to bleeding my clutch as I’ve been really busy. Going to see if I can today and will report back. Again, glad yours is up and running and hoping no more issues after that.

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