M/T a bit frustrating

[Johnbuz]

This morning I made sure to always stay north of 2k RPM and was happier. I have to remember this isn't a V-8 or the old inline 6 4.0.

This is for driving on hills below 50mph.

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[johnnymiz]

3.45 gears was definitely a sacrifice to the EPA gods. 4.10 is far more appropriate.
But as you said, it isnt the old inline which had all its torque off idle and it isnt a v8.
it is just a kinda smallish v6...but it will rev, so you have to just adjust and use the rpms.
Im coming from a 40 year old landcdruise with 145hp and an efective redline of 3500.
0 to 60 in about 47 seconds.Jeep is amazing in comparison.

 

[m3reno]

I just installed the pedal commander and it solves alot of the sluggishness. I did a test drive in all modes and there is a huge improvement, seems like a new vehicle. I leave it in city mode +1 and thats good enough for me. In sport s mode is was like my BMW on the highway but too quirky in the city. Definitely worth the money the jeep seems alive now.

 

[DanW]

Guys, the old 4.0 inline was nice, but it wasn't the holy grail everybody thinks. First off, it was pushing a MUCH lighter Jeep. Secondly, when you look at the torque curve, it wasn't putting out any more torque at 1500rpms than the 3.6 (New version). The 4.0 also began running out of breath as it gained rpm, whereas the 3.6 gains strength. Put a 4.0 in the same JL as a 3.6, and you'll have a dog. I guarantee it. Especially with the 3.45 gearing. When pusing a 3,000 pound TJ, yeah, it feels like a torque beast. Put this 3.6 in that same TJ, and you'll have a rocket ship, right off idle, all the way up to redline.

As others have said, you just have to learn to drive this thing and learn where it likes to run, then use that manual to keep it there. At least in the Rubi, they gave us the gearing to put it where it needs to be. I can't speak for the sport, but I remember a media test of a 2 door where they said it was very quick and was just a blast to drive.

It is an apples to oranges comparison, really. That 4.0 just isn't as grand as our memory says it is. It was, however, very nice in its day and did just fine. However, it's a bit like grandpa bragging about when gas was 5 cents a gallon, but neglecting to mention he only made $4,000 a year back then.

 

[m3reno]

I think the power plant is not the issue, more like the mapping of the throttle seems to be the real problem. I know its a jeep and not a BMW but we are talking about drivability issues vs performance. such as when Im going in reverse to leave my drive way I have to rev it high in order for it not to stall. Now by installing the pedal commander it seems to eliminate the sluggishness associated with the drive wire and on the high way 5th and 6th have a bit more pep so its a much more usable gear even if you have to pass someone

 

[Biscuit]

Guys, the old 4.0 inline was nice, but it wasn't the holy grail everybody thinks. First off, it was pushing a MUCH lighter Jeep. Secondly, when you look at the torque curve, it wasn't putting out any more torque at 1500rpms than the 3.6 (New version). The 4.0 also began running out of breath as it gained rpm, whereas the 3.6 gains strength. Put a 4.0 in the same JL as a 3.6, and you'll have a dog. I guarantee it. Especially with the 3.45 gearing. When pusing a 3,000 pound TJ, yeah, it feels like a torque beast. Put this 3.6 in that same TJ, and you'll have a rocket ship, right off idle, all the way up to redline.

As others have said, you just have to learn to drive this thing and learn where it likes to run, then use that manual to keep it there. At least in the Rubi, they gave us the gearing to put it where it needs to be. I can't speak for the sport, but I remember a media test of a 2 door where they said it was very quick and was just a blast to drive.

It is an apples to oranges comparison, really. That 4.0 just isn't as grand as our memory says it is. It was, however, very nice in its day and did just fine. However, it's a bit like grandpa bragging about when gas was 5 cents a gallon, but neglecting to mention he only made $4,000 a year back then.

Agreed. I've owned all three six-cylinder Jeeps - the 4.0, the 3.8 and the 3.6 - all manual, and the current 3.6 and six-speed combo is light years ahead of them. For that matter, it's at least a light year ahead of the JK. My JLU Sport is plenty quick from 1500 rpm on up, and it easily crawls in 1 and R with no throttle as long as you ease the clutch out to and past the friction point. In other words, pretty much like every manual I've driven, including the old "three on the tree" sedan I learned to drive in half a century ago.

My advice? If a prospective buyer wants a rocket ship/sports car/muscle car, he shouldn't even be looking at a Wrangler.

 

[Nomad]

My last stick was an older Rx7 with appropriately very short, close gearing. You made the most of the mediocre low end by revving the snot out of it, like at least 4000RPM before anything worthwhile happened. Compared to that, needing 2000RPM on the tach is nothing to me. As a 2dr my Jeep does 0-60 in the sixes. That's faster than I ever expected a Jeep would be and faster than my Rx7 was, and that helped make my decision. I also don't have an issue if 6th gear doesn't have any real acceleration at 55mph, just grab a lower gear if more power is needed. I'm very impressed with this thing.

 

[Kadonny]

This morning I made sure to always stay north of 2k RPM and was happier. I have to remember this isn't a V-8 or the old inline 6 4.0.

This is for driving on hills below 50mph.

This. Keep her above 2k and all will be good.

 

[mickey3]

I have a Sport S with the 3.45 differentials. Anyway, I find that it takes a lot of work to keep the engine in what feels like a proper RPM. I live in hilly western PA and do nearly all driving between 25-45 mph.

Everytime I drive I feel like I have to either rev the motor up to 3k in a lower gear and leave it there, or deal with anemic torque with RPM down around 1000 or 1200 RPM.

I have had 3 other M/T vehicles over the years: 95' Cherokee, 05 Ram 1500, and 06' BMW. I don't remember having similar issues.

And the throttle response on the JLU seems too sensitive/not consistent without the clutch engaged. Starting on a hill results in either a too high reving start or a rough start with RPM's low enough to cause knocking.

I agree, I also live where it is hilly and I found these engines need a lot more rpm to pull each gear. I came from a 2008 JK Rubicon 6 speed with 4.10, it was slow, but did not need constant shifting, it would pull each gear at a lower rpm than our new JLU Rubicon with 4.10's and a six speed manual. We put 35's on the JL at 350 miles, did not see much difference with the larger tires. Pulling a light trailer on the interstate brought us down to 3rd on steep hills - not fun!
Here is how we fixed our JL: 5.13's installed at about 3,000 miles. This is how it should come from the factory. Clutch engagement is better too, no more stalling or clutch slipping on steep starts. We have no regrets. Do not even think that 4:10's will fix this, go for the 5.13's or even the 5.38's. Gears and part kits are available for from Dana Spicer now.
FYI: They changed where the pinion shim goes, so no need to press the bearing on and off to set pinion depth, install is easier than the old JK 44's. There is a great install video from Dana on YouTube.

 

[Sorbs]

Remember, it’s a Jeep not a sports car. Might also wait until 7k miles before complaining about performance. Your engine isn’t broken in yet.

 

[OBJLU]

I agree, I also live where it is hilly and I found these engines need a lot more rpm to pull each gear. I came from a 2008 JK Rubicon 6 speed with 4.10, it was slow, but did not need constant shifting, it would pull each gear at a lower rpm than our new JLU Rubicon with 4.10's and a six speed manual. We put 35's on the JL at 350 miles, did not see much difference with the larger tires. Pulling a light trailer on the interstate brought us down to 3rd on steep hills - not fun!
Here is how we fixed our JL: 5.13's installed at about 3,000 miles. This is how it should come from the factory. Clutch engagement is better too, no more stalling or clutch slipping on steep starts. We have no regrets. Do not even think that 4:10's will fix this, go for the 5.13's or even the 5.38's. Gears and part kits are available for from Dana Spicer now.
FYI: They changed where the pinion shim goes, so no need to press the bearing on and off to set pinion depth, install is easier than the old JK 44's. There is a great install video from Dana on YouTube.

How is your HWY driving? I thought that 5.13 would be too steep for 35's. I'm eventually going to go to 37's but not for a couple of years but I would like regear before then. I've been considering the 4.88's though.

 

[WXman]

I have a Sport S with the 3.45 differentials. Anyway, I find that it takes a lot of work to keep the engine in what feels like a proper RPM. I live in hilly western PA and do nearly all driving between 25-45 mph.

Everytime I drive I feel like I have to either rev the motor up to 3k in a lower gear and leave it there, or deal with anemic torque with RPM down around 1000 or 1200 RPM.

I have had 3 other M/T vehicles over the years: 95' Cherokee, 05 Ram 1500, and 06' BMW. I don't remember having similar issues.

And the throttle response on the JLU seems too sensitive/not consistent without the clutch engaged. Starting on a hill results in either a too high reving start or a rough start with RPM's low enough to cause knocking.

That's what happens when you take a 4,300 lb. vehicle, insert an engine with no torque, and mate it to a transmission that has taller gearing than the outgoing model.

You're just going to have to get used to winding that engine out. Or, trade it for a ZF 8-speed model.

 

[KDB]

Regear, if it is an issue.

Mine feels fine even at 1700rpm. I get no knock and ping, whatsoever, but then again, I only run Shell or other Top Tier gas. (95% Shell, and no, it is not V-Power or even mid range).

I've driven the auto, and it didn't seem any quicker. The auto I drove was a Sahara with 35's. It felt great, but I'd never trade the manual. Never.

Btw, there's been a lot of moaning about the ratio in 6th gear. I'm at 8k miles, and this engine has become a little more sprightly since new. I can run 6th gear on flat land at 55 now and can even pull a slight hill at 60, withoug lugging or losing speed. Above 65, it is perfectly happy and I'm getting 20+ mpg. That blows me away, especially with 35's.

I can't get enough of running curvy country roads and going through the gears. I've got a Magnaflow axle-back and it makes beautiful music. I guess my #1 complaint is the very difficult decision....Alpine or Magnaflow?.

Totally agree with DanW on this. My 2 door Rubicon only has ~2K miles but I can "cruise" in any gear under 2000rpm with no issues. If wanting to accelerate on a hill I will (pending size of hill) have to down shift to 5th but that's OK as 6th is basically an over drive. With just under 2K miles my "lifetime" MPG is just under 21 and each tank seems to improve slightly from the last.

The nice thing about the MT is that if you WANT or NEED to accelerate with power you have total control over the tranny to do so. I can pass on the HWY going 65 in 6th but if i need to do so "quickly" I simply drop to 5th (or 4th) and man does she have the power then! Note that my only other comparison of a MT jeep was my '09 JK with 3:21 gearing, now that was a dog on any incline.

 

[mickey3]

How is your HWY driving? I thought that 5.13 would be too steep for 35's. I'm eventually going to go to 37's but not for a couple of years but I would like regear before then. I've been considering the 4.88's though.

Highway driving is just fine, with 35's I think it is perfect. I would not be afraid of 5.38's with the 37's.
This is the way FCA should have produced the Rubicon from the factory.
An indicated 55mph is right at 2000 rpm (actual speed is 58.3) as I did not recalibrate the speedometer when we added the 35's.
No more down shifts. I think the fuel milage will go up on the interstate at speeds below 75 mph.
My wife daily drives this Jeep and was disappointed with the factory 4.10 gearing, she thought the new Jeep was less powerful than her 2008 JKULR! Now she is very happy with the way it drives. I say do not wait to regear, I really can not say enough about how it transformed our Jeep.

 

[sf5211]

I too like John who started this thread was a little disappointed with this JL manual trans if driving around 25 mph. It was a little too low for 2nd and a little too high for 3rd. The good news is that I find it much better now with the engine broken in. I also find my fuel consumption much better than my last JK.

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