Let's get Nuts here

[roaniecowpony]

Lug nuts.

I recently had 37s installed on my JLUR. The wheels have small diameter deep bores for the lug nuts. The installer put on some cheap standard lug nuts that are truly a pain to install. The socket size cannot be more than 3/4" or it won't fit down the bore of the wheel. Yes, I could install some "spline" type lugs that are long and small in diameter. But, then if I lost the special socket or broke it on the trail, I'd be S.O.L. .

So, I looked and looked for some 3/4" hex 14mm x 1.5 lug nuts that were long enough to start by hand. That meant they had to be at least 2" long or preferably a bit longer.

I found that Dorman made some long "racing" lug nuts that were about 2.30" long and had a 3/4" hex. I ordered them from Amazon and they seemed to be the answer to my issue. But when I installed them, they wouldn't go all the way down to the wheel before they ran out of full cut thread. They also seemed to be pretty loose on the studs So, I bought a used thread gauge (go-not go) off ebay and a tap. The thread gauge showed most of them were ok with a few being oversize thread. So, I tapped about 10 of them deeper so they'd clamp down on the wheel. When I installed them, some of them would lock the socket into the wheel by bending the stud over slightly. I pulled them out and spun them on an axle stud where I could see the 60 degree cone. The cone was not concentric to the thread and wobbled as they were rotating. Crap. Literally. I read the box. They were made in China junk. It's not that they just would lock the socket in the wheel hole. The fact that they bend over the stud puts extreme load on the stud and will eventually break it.

My next effort was to find a US made lug nut, and one that was long enough to start by hand (2" minimum) and a small (for the 14mm thread size) hex of no more than 3/4" or 19mm. Gorilla indicated their lugs are made in the US and they had a 3/4" hex 14mm x 1.5 lug that was 2" long. They were also open ended which allowed them to be fully screwed on the studs to clamp the wheel. Another purchase of about $100 and they showed up. They looked great. They had a slightly larger diameter cone for more contact on the wheel (good) than the Dorman lugs. The cone ran true and concentric to the threads which would ensure that pressure from one sided contact of the wheel would not bend over the studs.

A little background on me. I started working in machine shops while in high school and later worked in a few of the large aerospace companies around southern California as well as many small shops. At some point in my 20s, I became a machined parts inspector. By my mid 30s, I had gone to college at night enough to pass testing as a manufacturing engineer and get a job at a large aircraft maker as a Quality Engineer. Later, I became a flight test engineer and on to certification/regulatory engineer. So, I am pretty intimate with machined parts. When I saw that the cone was not concentric with the threads, I knew I had another problem.

Bottom line...buy American made lug nuts.

There is no contact marks on one side of the cone on the China Dorman lug.

Here, you can see a full circle of contact on the Gorilla lug

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[jhackathorne]

Glad you got it worked out. I keep my spine socket in the rear cubby space where the bolts for doors/top go. Never had an issue nor lost it. Now if you are @Tredsdert and have no rear tailgate... I can certainly see why you would be concerned!

 

[roaniecowpony]

Glad you got it worked out. I keep my spine socket in the rear cubby space where the bolts for doors/top go. Never had an issue nor lost it. Now if you are @Tredsdert and have no rear tailgate... I can certainly see why you would be concerned!

Whether you go with splined or hex nuts, get high quality nuts. Your nuts hold your life in the balance. Don't cheap out on your nuts.

 

[Deleted User 38384]

Glad you got it worked out. I keep my spine socket in the rear cubby space where the bolts for doors/top go. Never had an issue nor lost it. Now if you are @Tredsdert and have no rear tailgate... I can certainly see why you would be concerned!

On the flip side if you have no tailgate, and you've already removed your spare jack and wrenches (because you don't run with a spare because you don't have a tailgate), that leaves a nice little compartment where you can store things that you can easily cover. I was actually thinking the other day about loading up my spare jack and wrench pocket with emergency medical supplies. No point in letting unused space go to waste!

 

[Deleted User 38384]

Whether you go with splined or hex nuts, get high quality nuts. Your nuts hold your life in the balance. Don't cheap out on your nuts.

When I got my Icon Rebound Pro's installed on my Jeep, the shop who installed them sold me some lug nuts that look like these.

The ones in the photo are Rough Country's, though I don't actually know which ones they sold me brand-wise, I just know that they're really nice quality steel, and they seem to be holding up pretty well. They sold them to me at cost for 20 of them. I used to spend a lot of money there, so there were always good to me.

I bought these really cool Volk Racing lug nuts for my wife's Subaru Forester a couple years ago.

They are pretty cool, though they were a bit expensive. I actually would love to upgrade hers to those $200 titanium lug nuts they sell on Amazon. The aluminum ones on there I have now are cool, but they're definitely wearing out over the last 2 years. Taking them on and off every 6,000 mi for the last 40,000 miles, they definitely aren't the same as when we bought them. I blame the aluminum. They're still secure, just the threading is starting to go.

 

[roaniecowpony]

When I got my Icon Rebound Pro's installed on my Jeep, the shop who installed them sold me some lug nuts that look like these.

The ones in the photo are Rough Country's, though I don't actually know which ones they sold me brand-wise, I just know that they're really nice quality steel, and they seem to be holding up pretty well. They sold them to me at cost for 20 of them. I used to spend a lot of money there, so there were always good to me.

I bought these really cool Volk Racing lug nuts for my wife's Subaru Forester a couple years ago.

They are pretty cool, though they were a bit expensive. I actually would love to upgrade hers to those $200 titanium lug nuts they sell on Amazon. The aluminum ones on there I have now are cool, but they're definitely wearing out over the last 2 years. Taking them on and off every 6,000 mi for the last 40,000 miles, they definitely aren't the same as when we bought them. I blame the aluminum. They're still secure, just the threading is starting to go.

Aluminum and titanium both have characteristics that can lead to galling of the threads.

For Aluminum, either 2024 or 7075 in their respective highest hardness condition, is stronger than the cheap 6061 alloy. But 6061 is the most available and cheaper, therefore it get the nod for most machined parts where there strength requirements are vague or undefined by the manufacturer. 7075 carries its own baggage with its susceptibility to intergranular corrosion, stress corrosion, etc., making 2024, with its strength between 6061 and 7075, a more rounded choice for products exposed to the elements.

Titanium is expensive but can be a good choice where the strength of mid strength steel is needed but weight is critical. Basically, you're paying multiple times the price of steel to save a bit of weight.

Steel, in appropriate alloys and hardness, is the best functional choice for lug nuts. Titanium and aluminum offer no real life benefits, other than being "trick", for a lug nut. Save your money and use it for something else.

 

[Deleted User 38384]

Aluminum and titanium both have characteristics that can lead to galling of the threads.

For Aluminum, either 2024 or 7075 in their respective highest hardness condition, is stronger than the cheap 6061 alloy. But 6061 is the most available and cheaper, therefore it get the nod for most machined parts where there strength requirements are vague or undefined by the manufacturer. 7075 carries its own baggage with its susceptibility to intergranular corrosion, stress corrosion, etc., making 2024, with its strength between 6061 and 7075, a more rounded choice for products exposed to the elements.

Titanium is expensive but can be a good choice where the strength of mid strength steel is needed but weight is critical. Basically, you're paying multiple times the price of steel to save a bit of weight.

Steel, in appropriate alloys and hardness, is the best functional choice for lug nuts. Titanium and aluminum offer no real life benefits, other than being "trick", for a lug nut. Save your money and use it for something else.

I never thought about it like that, really informative. I appreciate your knowledge! The funny thing is there's a whole lot of options when it comes to orange steel lug nuts. Wife really likes the orange on the lug nuts, really completes the theme of the Forester sport. I'll have to look into those before the next oil change. I was meaning to replace them at that point.

Thx!

 

[blnewt]

Been very happy w/ mine from this thread, those crap chinese spline nuts are downright scary!

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/looking-for-better-safer-lug-nuts.43461/

 

[roaniecowpony]

Been very happy w/ mine from this thread, those crap chinese spline nuts are downright scary!

https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/forum/threads/looking-for-better-safer-lug-nuts.43461/

Agreed. There is a lot more to lug nuts than most people realize. I doubt anyone here would even think about using chinese head bolts or connecting rod bolts. So, why would you use a Chinese lug nut, made from unknown metal quality, and made to unknown machining standards? This includes all the rebranded Chinese lugs sold by wheel companies and off-road parts "makers".

We have all seen pictures of various events where a wheel either departs a vehicle or is caught wobbling around. While it's possible or even likely that wheels that came off immediately after having been installed, are the result of someone not tightening the lugs, there are other possible causes.

A lug nut is a machined product. As such, it has a list of requirements so the manufacturer can make it and it fits and performs as intended. Basically, it's a blueprint. Most people have no idea what is involved in designing and manufacturing a simple nut. I couldn't find a common lug nut blueprint, mostly because they are proprietary documents. So, I located a Mil-Spec for a common nut used in aircraft/aerospace. sps-n-66985.pdf (pccfasteners.com)
The basics are all the same. The blueprint has to specify the material, the dimensions and the finish. Seems straightforward. Not really.

Material...
Yeah, stating "steel" or "aluminum" is a simplification of a specification. But, there are thousands of of steel alloys and aluminum alloys. There are steels that are softer and weaker than some aluminums. Exactly what specific steel makes a difference. So, responsible makers, like the one that made your Jeep, for example, will require on the blueprint a specification from a recognized industry standard, such as AISI, SAE, etc.. Those organizations have very specific requirements for the elements and process to make that steel. Then there is "condition" or "heat treat". The condition or heat treat specification, in combination with the steel spec, will result in the hardness, which in turn, results in the strength.

Dimensions...
Every dimension needs a tolerance. Nothing is exactly perfect and therefore an acceptable range is necessary. That especially is true of threads. Chinese quality can be all over the place on threaded products. If a thread is too loose, it can strip out. If too tight, it won't fit. In my experience, Chinese lug nuts (and all the re-branded stuff) have out of spec (loose) thread fit. There are at least two other areas that can cause trouble.

This is a big one. When you bought aftermarket wheels and lug nuts, you opened up a can of worms. Makers of wheels vary the thickness of the clamping section, studs vary in length and then there are dimensional variations of nuts. The depth of the cut thread and hole depth in a decorative (blind) nut where the stud doesn't go through the nut, is critical. If the nut won't thread down on the stud far enough to clamp the wheel, because it either bottoms the stud at the back of the hole in the nut or doesn't have enough thread depth, then it won't safely clamp the wheel. I ran into this several times over the years. Most recently on my Jeep. I think this happens more often than is ever revealed. The only way to know for sure if the nuts are safely clamping your wheels, is to run each nut on the stud until you can't turn it by hand any further, then measure the distance between the hub/rotor face and the nut, then measure your wheel thickness. I also ran into a situation where the cone wasn't concentric to the threads and was bending the stud when tightening and would bind the socket in the wheel counterbore.

Buy American made lug nuts (Gorilla, McGard, etc.) and check each lug nut to ensure it runs down far enough to clamp the wheel.

 

[blnewt]

@roaniecowpony excellent posting as usual, and so true regarding all the manufacturing differences from lug nut design, wheel bore contact area, bore depth, etc. FWIW the lug nuts that I've been using have a solid fit and seem to be well made. Rust is appearing on a few of the outer edges from socket use, so there's that, but otherwise they seem to be doing a good job I use copper anti-seize on my lugs, my inner wheel surface that mates to the rotor, the inner and outer rotor mating surfaces, and the hub. Not really pertinent to lug nut talk, but it really does help when servicing wheel/brake related parts

And speaking of scary Chinese spline nuts~
Here's a pic from this post from @NewTXJL
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...tter-safer-lug-nuts.43461/page-3#post-1121284

 

[roaniecowpony]

@roaniecowpony excellent posting as usual, and so true regarding all the manufacturing differences from lug nut design, wheel bore contact area, bore depth, etc. FWIW the lug nuts that I've been using have a solid fit and seem to be well made. Rust is appearing on a few of the outer edges from socket use, so there's that, but otherwise they seem to be doing a good job I use copper anti-seize on my lugs, my inner wheel surface that mates to the rotor, the inner and outer rotor mating surfaces, and the hub. Not really pertinent to lug nut talk, but it really does help when servicing wheel/brake related parts

And speaking of scary Chinese spline nuts~
Here's a pic from this post from @NewTXJL
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...tter-safer-lug-nuts.43461/page-3#post-1121284

I'm guessing those had the stud bottoming on the thread or the bottom of the hole in the lug nut.

 

[blnewt]

I'm guessing those had the stud bottoming on the thread or the bottom of the hole in the lug nut.

And probably an impact gun that went rogue as well

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