High-Tide Front lean, who has it?

[dayusmc]

It is the gas 3.6. The truck is level. I also made sure the jack stands are positioned in the same spots on the axle tubes. I am measuring from Eye to Eye on the shock mount bolts.
I did notice from the day I bought the truck (used with 12,500k on it) that the rake on the passenger side looked like it was more than on the drivers side.
I know my Mojave is different by about 3/8" from side to side. I just think this 3/4" to 7/8" difference on this jeep seems like a lot.
Now if everyone with a High-Tide has the same thing, it is probably as simple as Jeep didn't compensate for the side to side spring rates enough. Attached are the front spring part numbers from the tags that were on the springs...

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[Beachcomber72]

It is the gas 3.6. The truck is level. I also made sure the jack stands are positioned in the same spots on the axle tubes. I am measuring from Eye to Eye on the shock mount bolts.
I did notice from the day I bought the truck (used with 12,500k on it) that the rake on the passenger side looked like it was more than on the drivers side.
I know my Mojave is different by about 3/8" from side to side. I just think this 3/4" to 7/8" difference on this jeep seems like a lot.
Now if everyone with a High-Tide has the same thing, it is probably as simple as Jeep didn't compensate for the side to side spring rates enough. Attached are the front spring part numbers from the tags that were on the springs...

You have to think though, even if your tires aren’t pointing 100% directly straight by let’s say even 5 degrees of one direction or other it will raise or lower that sides suspension height. But too now that you loosened up the track bar bolts and control arms the geometry is all out of whack. Guaranteed.

 

[dayusmc]

I am raising the front end with spacers, the contol arms need to be loosened and torqued at the new ride height. So no matter what they had to be loosened. And as I have already said, I measured at every stage so not really sure wht you are saying it is all out if wack anyway. Measurements were already taken, control arms needed to be loosened an torqued again.

 

[dayusmc]

Also the Jeep is resting on the suspension, not the tires. The tires are off, the jeep is on Jack stands on the axles, that tacks out any issues with the tires.
Does anyone who actually has a High-Tide know if their High-Tide sits that much different from front passenger to front driver side?

 

[Beachcomber72]

My high tide is exactly 1/2 inch lower on passenger side versus the driver.

 

[dayusmc]

So mine is off by 3/8" more. It could be a sagging spring, everything else looks in good shape. Or maybe both front springs haven't set yet. I would have thought after 14k they would have set already...
I will finish it up and have her drive it another 5k and look to see if it changes.
I broke my spring tester, so I can't check the springs anymore. I am half tempted to buy another one, but I don't do motorcross suspension anymore, so it probably is not worth spending the money on a new one...

 

[Beachcomber72]

Well hopefully you get some resolve for your situation. And as mentioned, once everything is set with equal parts side to side and vehicle is professionally aligned, I’d be more than happy to come back and address this further. But we have to have a better starting point to really understand the underlying issue if there truly is one. This could all just truly have been a slight side to side weight difference from the get go.

Multiple iterations of Wranglers over the years have had a few lean issues here and there. The TJ lean, the JK lean.

 

[dayusmc]

In the morning I am going to take the track bar and drag link out and remeasure. I am replacing them anyway with Yeti ones.
But I want to eliminate the possibility of a sticking bushing in the front.
I had a sticking bushing in the back that was holding the rear up higher than it should have been. So who knows. But with the track bar, drag link and shocks out, resting on the suspension if it is still that far off, it really could only be the springs.

 

[Beachcomber72]

In the morning I am going to take the track bar and drag link out and remeasure. I am replacing them anyway with Yeti ones.
But I want to eliminate the possibility of a sticking bushing in the front.
I had a sticking bushing in the back that was holding the rear up higher than it should have been. So who knows. But with the track bar, drag link and shocks out, resting on the suspension if it is still that far off, it really could only be the springs.

Yeah could be. Let us know what you find.

 

[dayusmc]

Well hopefully you get some resolve for your situation. And as mentioned, once everything is set with equal parts side to side and vehicle is professionally aligned, I’d be more than happy to come back and address this further. But we have to have a better starting point to really understand the underlying issue if there truly is one. This could all just truly have been a slight side to side weight difference from the get go.

Multiple iterations of Wranglers over the years have had a few lean issues here and there. The TJ lean, the JK lean.

I do not understand your elimination process. I really don't understand the alignment part. It is a jeep, without adjustable control arms, the only thing that can be adjusted with an alignment is the toe. I actually measured that already using Metelcloak alignment plates because as I said, I like to take all measurements as I do stuff that way I have before and after specs. The toe was 1/16" in. There were also no tool marks on any of the bolts on the suspension, so I know it has not been taken apart.
Putting the stock shocks back in and measuring it again doesn't make any logical sense. I have that measurement already, I have all the measurements I did along the way.
So why do you think I should put it back to stock and measure it agian? What number are you looking for, I can tell you what they are as I already did that.

 

[Beachcomber72]

I do not understand your elimination process. I really don't understand the alignment part. It is a jeep, without adjustable control arms, the only thing that can be adjusted with an alignment is the toe. I actually measured that already using Metelcloak alignment plates because as I said, I like to take all measurements as I do stuff that way I have before and after specs. The toe was 1/16" in. There were also no tool marks on any of the bolts on the suspension, so I know it has not been taken apart.
Putting the stock shocks back in and measuring it again doesn't make any logical sense. I have that measurement already, I have all the measurements I did along the way.
So why do you think I should put it back to stock and measure it agian? What number are you looking for, I can tell you what they are as I already did that.

Let’s say for instance the axle is off center in the front by 1 inch and therefore one side has a tire poking outside the fender by one inch compared to the other, that shift alone has now caused the front weight to be heavier on the side that’s inset causing the other to measure higher up. Does that make more sense?

 

[Beachcomber72]

https://greaseandgears.com/why-is-my-car-lower-on-one-side/

 

[flyer92]

So...FWIW, my stock 2-door Sport has had this same problem since I took delivery of her in 2021, and it makes my OCD spike every time I see it. Brought it to three different dealerships, and all say that the lean is normal and within spec....although they can't seem to tell me what the "spec" actually is. I also brought it to a high-end suspension shop that works on everything from Wranglers to G Wagons, and they said everything appears normal with no safety or performance issues. Another reputable off-road shop in my area also advised that this is common and was often seen on the JK, presumably due to the position of the fuel tank. Despite all of this, I have yet to find a single leaning JL in any of my local dealer lots, and just can't believe that this really is "normal." Just wanted to chime in, since this damn "Jeep Thing" doesn't seem to be isolated to the High Tide, and even goes back to the JK. Best of luck on finding the cause and solution for this issue, so please keep us posted.

 

[dayusmc]

Let’s say for instance the axle is off center in the front by 1 inch and therefore one side has a tire poking outside the fender by one inch compared to the other, that shift alone has now caused the front weight to be heavier on the side that’s inset causing the other to measure higher up. Does that make more sense?

I understand stand that. That is one reason I try to eliminate all the variables so I can assess the situation between. I always measure on jack stands, wheels off, on level ground so I can eliminate any tire variables.
I check left to right one the axle tube with a digital angle finder to make sure the rears are level.
Measurements must be taken at every step, most people do not do this, they just jump around and guess at things that could be wrong. I don't do that, everything must have a purpose...
As I said, I use to do motorcross suspension and that is also very detailed, at least at the level I did it at...
I guess my post wasn't clear enough, I wasn't looking for advice on how to troubleshoot the various parts, I was simply looking to see what other High-Tides had as far as lean goes. If most other High-Tides are leaning 0.5" to the passenger side, than I have to look to see why mine is different. But if most other High-Tides are leaning 3/4" to the passenger side, than mine is normal and then I can figure out what is making all the High-Tides lean that much.
First step is to figure out if my High-Tide is leaning the same amount as the rest. If my High-Tide is leaning more than most others than I have to figure out why mine is different. The steps I have taken are simple steps that must be taken to start the process of elimination...
In the oast I have found many different reasons for lean more to one side than the other. A lot of the times it was a bad bushing or a bushing that was acting like a "toresion bushing" because it was tighten while the vehicle was not level or because one spring set more than others.

 

[dayusmc]

So...FWIW, my stock 2-door Sport has had this same problem since I took delivery of her in 2021, and it makes my OCD spike every time I see it. Brought it to three different dealerships, and all say that the lean is normal and within spec....although they can't seem to tell me what the spec actually is. I also brought it to a high-end suspension shop that works on everything from Wranglers to G Wagons, and they said everything appears normal with no safety or performance issues. Another reputable off-road shop in my area also advised that this is common and was often seen on the JK, presumably due to the position of the fuel tank. Despite all of this, I have yet to find a single leaning JL in any of my local dealer lots, and just can't believe that this really is "normal." Just wanted to chime in, since this damn "Jeep Thing" doesn't seem to be isolated to the High Tide, and even goes back to the JK. Best of luck on finding the cause and solution for this issue, so please keep us posted.

Don't put to much stock in what dealerships or other "high end" suspension shops say. Most do not want to do the work to get to the bottom of something that is harder because they can't charge the money for the time it takes because it would be to costly.
A lot of vehicles lean. The key is to find the norm and also comparing apples to apples.
But like you said, if the lean is the same with a full gas tank and an empty one, that really can't be the reason.
There are several things it could be , baring something wrong like a bent frame. One thing is spring sag. An example, out if 5 brand new Honda CRF250R, same year. Three of their rear springs measured outside the advertised spring rate. There is also bushings (bearings in motorcycles) that can cause lean.
But you will have to check everything yourself, no one is really going to dig in to deep for you.
I wish I didn't break my soring tester when I moved. Checking the spring rates is normally where I would have started.
You might want to start by measuring you jeep on jack stands, make sure it is level with the wheels off. Measure suspension locations, not suspension to body. If your suspension measurements are all the same, them measure suspension/frame to body to see if your body is leaning, could be a bad body mount. If you measure eye to eye one you shock mounts amd it is off, then remove your shocks and measure again. It could be a sticking shock, or a shock that the nitrogen is leaking out if it. Once you take the measurements without the shocks on, you can eliminate if it is actually the shocks...
For my high tide I am starting to lean to it being a weak spring on one side

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