Genesis dual battery fire?

[Whaler27]

The obvious people to ask: @Genesis Offroad.

Absolutely, that’s why I linked Genesis above. They’ve been great to deal with in the past, but it’s a holiday weekend and I needed to get my jeep safely back into the shop/garage.

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[Whaler27]

That is the older Genesis system I believe. Not saying anything is related but there it is.

I am not seeing how having old batteries that constantly needed to be charged/jumped is the fault of the Genesis system? The title of the thread sure seems to point at that and not the older batteries.

I have the dual battery set up as well, but mine is the newer (not the newest) version.

I’m not suggesting this is anybody’s fault. I just want to fix it.

The batteries were new when the system was new, but the charging struggles have been ongoing. I’m hoping the Genesis folks can walk me through some idiot-proof diagnostics to confirm this is properly set up.

 

[WranglerMan]

Contact Shane or Mike H. @Genesis Offroad Mike is a wealth of knowledge.

My Gen 2 system has worked perfect since it was installed in like 2018, my Full River batteries lasted 4.5 years and I recently replaced both batteries as they were failing but there premature death was due to me overcharging them.

Not sure what caused your meltdown but I would suggest you contact @Genesis Offroad berore swapping batteries and have the top end of the Genesis system checked for correct operation and also get a battery tester.

 

[Whaler27]

Contact Shane or Mike H. @Genesis Offroad Mike is a wealth of knowledge.

My Gen 2 system has worked perfect since it was installed in like 2018, my Full River batteries lasted 4.5 years and I recently replaced both batteries as they were failing but there premature death was due to me overcharging them.

Not sure what caused your meltdown but I would suggest you contact @Genesis Offroad berore swapping batteries and have the top end of the Genesis system checked for correct operation and also get a battery tester.

You’re not supposed to be able to overcharge with a smart-charger — and I’ve already replaced the batteries. That’s the only move I’ve made that I’m 100% confident about.

 

[Genesis Offroad]

Absolutely, that’s why I linked Genesis above. They’ve been great to deal with in the past, but it’s a holiday weekend and I needed to get my jeep safely back into the shop/garage.

Hey Alex,
Sorry to hear you're having some trouble. Please give Mike a call at your convenience at 901-214-5337 when you are with the vehicle and have a few minutes. He can walk you through some very simple tests to help figure out what is going on.

-Shane

 

[Heimkehr]

So I took both to Batteries Plus. One was fried… showed 2.3 volts. The second one showed 11 volts.

Technically, they're both done. Resting voltage shouldn't be less than 12.4V. Personally, and from long experience, I start to get concerned if it isn't at least 12.5V.

 

[DonH63]

So I took both to Batteries Plus. One was fried… showed 2.3 volts. The second one showed 11 volts.

The only AGM Group 25 option I could find within 80 miles was the Optima red-top. I had to drive about 120 miles, and bend over the desk for a sound beating on price, but I now have two new batteries in the jeep. I fired it up, backed into the garage, and disconnected ground cables until I can figure out what’s wrong and replace the solenoid (at least).

I’ve had lots of Jeeps, trucks, and boats with dual batteries. It’s a great reserve, but I’m not sure the trickier features of the current system are worth the hassle for me.

Late to the party, but a few comments come to mind:

Both batteries are dead; 11 V is too low, unless it was not properly charged. The 2.3 V one could have caused a large current surge through the solenoid if it connects both batteries in parallel, which may have heated the solenoid to failure, but if the control (low-current) side of the solenoid died it may be a bad solenoid. If the batteries were connected in parallel (shorted) the bad one may have damaged the good one; I'd replace both.

I use a Noco trickle charger/booster unit that has worked well, but I do not leave it on all the time because I read a number of reviews saying they could fail and overcharge the battery, which could cause the battery to overheat and catch fire (something I have seen in the past with other chargers). You may be dealing with a combination of issues.

Calling Genesis seems the best solution as they have likely seen things like this before.

 

[WranglerMan]

You’re not supposed to be able to overcharge with a smart-charger — and I’ve already replaced the batteries. That’s the only move I’ve made that I’m 100% confident about.

I was using an Odyssey 20 amp and was putting it on the charger everytime I parked thinking I was doing my batteries a favor but I was not.

I contacted Full River after the fact and they advised most smart chargers are better than the old school manual chargers but they are not perfect.

Smart chargers are supposed to go thru a startup test to determine the batteries condition and then apply the approp amps and voltage and on initial startup they advised most of the ones they tested throw the highest volts and amps during their startup phase so with me putting that 20 amp on them several times a week I subjected them to unessary high amps and since there batteries have a very low internal resistance this likely lead to a shorter life.

When I replaced them I initially charged them and now do just a monthly test with this MOTOPOWER MP0515A 12V Car Battery Tester Automotive 100-2000 CCA Battery Load Tester Auto Cranking and Charging System Tester https://a.co/d/8Eq73NK, if the tester indicates they are good I don't use any type of charger and I also have dropped down to a NOCO 5 or 10 and save the 20 amp Odyssey for deeply discharged batteries.

My batteries have not been on a charger for months and my tester says they need nothing.

Since you have replaced the batteries I still would suggest you have the Genesis components checked for correct operation.

 

[swampflyer]

I was using an Odyssey 20 amp and was putting it on the charger everytime I parked thinking I was doing my batteries a favor but I was not.

I contacted Full River after the fact and they advised most smart chargers are better than the old school manual chargers but they are not perfect.

Smart chargers are supposed to go thru a startup test to determine the batteries condition and then apply the approp amps and voltage and on initial startup they advised most of the ones they tested throw the highest volts and amps during their startup phase so with me putting that 20 amp on them several times a week I subjected them to unessary high amps and since there batteries have a very low internal resistance this likely lead to a shorter life.

When I replaced them I initially charged them and now do just a monthly test with this MOTOPOWER MP0515A 12V Car Battery Tester Automotive 100-2000 CCA Battery Load Tester Auto Cranking and Charging System Tester https://a.co/d/8Eq73NK, if the tester indicates they are good I don't use any type of charger and I also have dropped down to a NOCO 5 or 10 and save the 20 amp Odyssey for deeply discharged batteries.

My batteries have not been on a charger for months and my tester says they need nothing.

Since you have replaced the batteries I still would suggest you have the Genesis components checked for correct operation.

FYI I have the gen 3 version of the Genesis dual battery system which I installed myself in 2021 and it's been flawless. I have 2 full river batteries which I fully charged prior to install.
I have used a NOCO Genius gen pro 10 since day of install. It's plugged in constantly when not being driven. I have watched the GenPro 10 go through its procedure which is explained in the instructions. Knock on wood no problems at all. Hope this helps (maybe maybe not).

 

[WranglerMan]

FYI I have the gen 3 version of the Genesis dual battery system which I installed myself in 2021 and it's been flawless. I have 2 full river batteries which I fully charged prior to install.
I have used a NOCO Genius gen pro 10 since day of install. It's plugged in constantly when not being driven. I have watched the GenPro 10 go through its procedure which is explained in the instructions. Knock on wood no problems at all. Hope this helps (maybe maybe not).

Maybe I put enough time running not to need a smart tender as I've done monthly tests using my tester, I asked FullRiver about conditioning charges or some call it an equalized charges and they advised their FT-750 that I run don't need that unless that are idle for an extended period of time but also said if the vehicle is not idle a semi or yearly conditioning charge was recommended.

 

[Whaler27]

Hey Alex,
Sorry to hear you're having some trouble. Please give Mike a call at your convenience at 901-214-5337 when you are with the vehicle and have a few minutes. He can walk you through some very simple tests to help figure out what is going on.

-Shane

Thanks, Shane. I called and left a message on your company voicemail at 1030 your time this morning (Friday). I’m happy to try again, but to minimize waste of your time, please let me know:
1) Do you want the batteries connected for the diagnostic process?, and
2) What tools do you want me to have handy for the troubleshooting?

Thank you!

 

[Genesis Offroad]

Thanks, Shane. I called and left a message on your company voicemail at 1030 your time this morning (Friday). I’m happy to try again, but to minimize waste of your time, please let me know:
1) Do you want the batteries connected for the diagnostic process?, and
2) What tools do you want me to have handy for the troubleshooting?

Thank you!

Ok great. Mike will return your call shortly. It's best to have the system completely installed as normal, and if you have a handheld voltmeter (or the G Screen) handy that would be very helpful.

 

[Whaler27]

Ok great. Mike will return your call shortly. It's best to have the system completely installed as normal, and if you have a handheld voltmeter (or the G Screen) handy that would be very helpful.

Thank you!

Mike called me back. Great conversation. Knowledgable, patient, and helpful.

Here’s my best guess after our conversation:

First, the black silicone terminal caps on the solenoid are held on by a black, caulk-like silicon adhesive. The bubbly black adhesive can make it look like there’s been melting, and the heat coming off of the solenoid can make people lean that way, but there’s no actual melting.

The solenoid on the Genesis dual battery systems is a durable 40+ year old design that almost never fail (as in only 4 or five failures in five years), and if there is a failure the consequence is minor. (Depending on whether it fails open or closed, the owner might find the accessory battery isn’t charging, or the system is functioning as though it has one big battery separated into two halves (both charging and discharging together). There’s no scenario where the solenoid failure causes the extent of the charge failure or the smoking battery I experienced.

My best guess is that before I arrived at a good smart charger procedure my Odyssey batteries were already 2 or 3 years old and had experienced several cycles of deep drain, which had damaged the batteries and accelerated the shortening of battery life.

My Rockslide Engineering steps probably increased parasitic draw beyond what was originally measured when I checked for parasitic draw, which should not exceed 80 milliamps after the Jeep’s brain shuts down (about a minute after the jeep is turned off.)

I plan to reconnect the Jeep’s grounds and drive the heck out of it this weekend, then reconnect my smart charger per Shan’s videos.

I can’t thank the Genesis guys enough. Their stuff is expensive, but it’s an American company, with responsive employees who actually speak english, know their products, and offer smart help even slow learners like me can understand. That’s worth every penny.

 

[Genesis Offroad]

I can’t thank the Genesis guys enough. Their stuff is expensive, but it’s an American company, with responsive employees who actually speak english, know their products, and offer smart help even slow learners like me can understand. That’s worth every penny.

Thank you for the kind words! Please feel free to call anytime, we're always here to help.
-Shane

 

[WranglerMan]

Thank you!

Mike called me back. Great conversation. Knowledgable, patient, and helpful.

Here’s my best guess after our conversation:

First, the black silicone terminal caps on the solenoid are held on by a black, caulk-like silicon adhesive. The bubbly black adhesive can make it look like there’s been melting, and the heat coming off of the solenoid can make people lean that way, but there’s no actual melting.

The solenoid on the Genesis dual battery systems is a durable 40+ year old design that almost never fail (as in only 4 or five failures in five years), and if there is a failure the consequence is minor. (Depending on whether it fails open or closed, the owner might find the accessory battery isn’t charging, or the system is functioning as though it has one big battery separated into two halves (both charging and discharging together). There’s no scenario where the solenoid failure causes the extent of the charge failure or the smoking battery I experienced.

My best guess is that before I arrived at a good smart charger procedure my Odyssey batteries were already 2 or 3 years old and had experienced several cycles of deep drain, which had damaged the batteries and accelerated the shortening of battery life.

My Rockslide Engineering steps probably increased parasitic draw beyond what was originally measured when I checked for parasitic draw, which should not exceed 80 milliamps after the Jeep’s brain shuts down (about a minute after the jeep is turned off.)

I plan to reconnect the Jeep’s grounds and drive the heck out of it this weekend, then reconnect my smart charger per Shan’s videos.

I can’t thank the Genesis guys enough. Their stuff is expensive, but it’s an American company, with responsive employees who actually speak english, know their products, and offer smart help even slow learners like me can understand. That’s worth every penny.

I have spoke to Mike several times and he's a super guy, I have wanted to upgrade to the Gen 3 sys as I have the Gen 2 but when retired things get in the way like home repairs

Genesis makes a solid product and has excellent support

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