For the EV mafioso

[LAM]

I’d strongly favor an end to all government subsidizing in transportation. IF a better technology comes along, people WILL adapt it. If it has to take tax incentives to get them to sell, perhaps they may “not” be the ultimate answer.

Governments have been subsidizing transportation (technology) for thousands or years. If we did not have our roads and highways I suppose there would be more incentive to buy a Jeep, or, maybe a horse.

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[mcjeff]

It's ridiculously cheap to run, as I stated in another post, just over $500 in electricity in a year and 10k miles in driving. We didn't buy it to save money, though. We wanted to experience an EV.

Basically requires no maintenance other than tires. We are just over 10k miles and I expect the tires to last to 40k+. That's not bad considering both of us drive the car ...spiritedly. Now, I do like wrenching on my hobby cars... I DON'T like wrenching on cars I drive to work or need everyday. This thing is great for that. It is the *best* toaster we've ever owned.

It's probably the most comfortable and least-fatigue inducing car I've ever had the pleasure of driving. It's quiet and rides like a vault. It's great on road trips...definitely have to stop for breaks before it ever needs a charge. we take it over to Northern Idaho (400 miles) and back any time of year. It does great.

It's also ridiculously fun to drive, very well balanced, truly, it handles like a skateboard. One-pedal driving is stupid-grin fun in the twisties. That's a nice balance to have with something that is very utilitarian, spacious, luxurious...it's very good at many different things. Including embarrassing the yee-yee diesel and vroom-vroom twits who think they're going to own a lib driving an EV. Pfft. I know not to get into situations I'm very likely not going to win. But when Kyle spools up his tuned, 250k mile Powerstroke next to me, I'm going to demonstrate that a chubby EV weighing 6,000lb can, actually, tear those small-dick doors off.

I can refuel it at home, at work, or at the store, while we eat or shop. It's really nice to be able to plug it in at home, though. When was the last time you were able to fill up your gas car at home?

EV infrastructure is still in its infancy, no doubt. But if you live somewhere where some good investment has already happened, like where we live, the situation is already "very good", even at this early stage when chargers are relatively sparse. And it only gets better from here.

First and foremost I'm a car guy. Not a greenie. And this thing... (our '24 BMW iX) is actually pretty awesome.

I’m going to quickly regret jumping into it, but yeah all of this. I had one for a few years and the convenience and ease of the things is really great. Waking up with a full tank every day is awesome. I wasn’t changing the world or saving oceans, I just didn’t have to care about oil changes, gas tanks, filters, or any of that stuff. Great for a commute car. The annoying part was that everyone takes it as some political symbol in some fashion. Nope, not doing that. I just don’t want to get out and get gas when it’s 15 degrees out during the winter.

All of the marketing catches apply. They oversell range like ICE cars oversell MPG. They oversell ease of charging. Maintenance when you need it can be a PITA.

I ditched mine because I have some odd driving habits (frequent 200-mile and back day trips, which an EV makes quite difficult). If I could find something with a 500+ mile range, I’d go back to it again tomorrow, whether it saves oceans or not.

I also had a diesel wrangler. I think that makes me some kind of a weirdo.

 

[Pape]

324 miles of advertised range and I’ve found that to be conservative.

I also haven’t fumbled to recharge, but I see where that might be hard from some people.

See, I have a coworker doing the same trip as I do and he always need to stop recharging in the middle in each direction. Some time in the worse condition he need to stop twice because it is really cold and the battery deplete faster and there is a big head wind. Just for example I did an 350 miles round trip last night on a thigh schedule. What I was able to pull in term of schedule, time and distance no EV would have done without loosing precious time charging, especially that no charging station was in the vicinity.

Do not worry I have a good idea of what I'm talking about and replacing 5 minutes pit stop by 45 ~ 60 minutes one is a no go.

 

[NWJeepr]

All of the marketing catches apply. They oversell range like ICE cars oversell MPG. They oversell ease of charging. Maintenance when you need it can be a PITA.

I’m not sure about other brands, but BMW rates their ranges conservatively. I was worried that we’d find out the actual range is much less, or wildly variable, and that hasn’t been the case. The car has exceptionally good estimation algorithms, and paired with Nav that uses those numbers and calculates charging needs and anticipated stops, it makes it pretty simple for even the luddites.

I think what’s oversold is, somewhat, the ease of charging. It’s really going to depend on where you live and where EV infrastructure has seen investment versus not. 95% of the time the only charger I need is in my garage, so my use case is extremely simplified. But I do know where good chargers are for hundreds of miles in any direction I need to go.

An EV car is in no position to replace a diesel pickup for towing, in the same way a pickup is in no position to haul 80k pounds of freight.

If you have “thigh” schedules or can’t stop for 30 minutes every few hours, then by all means, drive something else.

 

[mcjeff]

I’m not sure about other brands, but BMW rates their ranges conservatively. I was worried that we’d find out the actual range is much less, or wildly variable, and that hasn’t been the case. The car has exceptionally good estimation algorithms, and paired with Nav that uses those numbers and calculates charging needs and anticipated stops, it makes it pretty simple for even the luddites.

I think what’s oversold is, somewhat, the ease of charging. It’s really going to depend on where you live and where EV infrastructure has seen investment versus not. 95% of the time the only charger I need is in my garage, so my use case is extremely simplified. But I do know where good chargers are for hundreds of miles in any direction I need to go.

An EV car is in no position to replace a diesel pickup for towing, in the same way a pickup is in no position to haul 80k pounds of freight.

If you have “thigh” schedules or can’t stop for 30 minutes every few hours, then by all means, drive something else.

Mine was a Tesla and while the range would always say “330” when fully charged or whatever, it felt like the miles ticked off faster than that. Worse in the winter, obviously. I didn’t so much care though as for around-the-town driving, I always would come home at the end of the day well over 200. It’s was those longer trips that became a pain. It wasn’t even that I couldn’t find chargers.

It’s that it took a trip from a single stop on the way for gas - and one on the way home - to a charge on the way, a charge once I got there to zip around, and a charge before I left, then perhaps one on the way home again. Something I used to do in day wasn’t possible. But that’s entirely my situation and not a problem with the car itself. There are also more chargers than back in 2019 or whenever it was that I had it.

Once someone announces 500+, two of those charges go away, and I’m all about life getting easier.

 

[Pape]

So if a hybrid could refuel as quickly as an ICE then you'd be willing to concede?



Personally I hope your right. Cause then I can justify moving to 35s

My portion of the talk is about EV not Hybrid. I was about to get a 4Xe but than I decided it was much more simple to buy my self a cafe machine at home than going get my cafe every morning therefore removing the 90% of my local commute leaving me with a lot of dead weight on long commute.

Dang Nab It! You're not confirming Pape's biases!

Can you explain to me in what, me not buying the EV narrative, make me bias ?
The narrative in this case is that EV is a 1 to 1 replacement to ICE, As previously explained Range and ease of refuel is my main point.

 

[Dusty Dude]

The annoying part was that everyone takes it as some political symbol in some fashion.

You can thank the Prius drivers for making it political. A survey was done of Prius drivers only, and when asked why they bought one, 78% said it as to make a statement that they were greener than you.

The second reason was because they didn’t want to have to pay for gas to commute.

 

[darnett]

I’m going to quickly regret jumping into it, but yeah all of this. I had one for a few years and the convenience and ease of the things is really great. Waking up with a full tank every day is awesome. I wasn’t changing the world or saving oceans, I just didn’t have to care about oil changes, gas tanks, filters, or any of that stuff. Great for a commute car. The annoying part was that everyone takes it as some political symbol in some fashion. Nope, not doing that. I just don’t want to get out and get gas when it’s 15 degrees out during the winter.

All of the marketing catches apply. They oversell range like ICE cars oversell MPG. They oversell ease of charging. Maintenance when you need it can be a PITA.

I ditched mine because I have some odd driving habits (frequent 200-mile and back day trips, which an EV makes quite difficult). If I could find something with a 500+ mile range, I’d go back to it again tomorrow, whether it saves oceans or not.

I also had a diesel wrangler. I think that makes me some kind of a weirdo.

I have a EV, a Wrangler and a Mercedes Diesel, none of which were purchased for political reasons. Each have positives and negatives. One positive of the EV is my wife doesn't have to stop at a gas station, or get oil changes etc. Almost zero traditional maintenance in the last 6 years. It's great for driving around town. Honestly have only done one road trip and it was fine, had to stop for 30 minutes every couple hundred miles. I plug it in at home every couple days and never ever really think about it. it just works.

Wrangler is super fun and really only purchased for that reason and to tow behind a MH.

I don't even want to talk about the Mercedes diesel. I love driving a diesel but it's older and now the electronics are getting weird so it's getting cost prohibitive and complicated to keep running.

 

[NWJeepr]

Can you explain to me in what, me not buying the EV narrative, make me bias ?
The narrative in this case is that EV is a 1 to 1 replacement to ICE, As previously explained Range and ease of refuel is my main point.

I’ll gladly explain it. You speak as though you are some kind of authority on everyone’s wants and needs regarding vehicles and are offended that someone doesn’t agree with you that ICE is superior in every way. That’s your opinion, but it doesn’t mean much to some of us around here nor does it reflect our reality.

 

[THAW]

Doesn't appear many posters in this thread took the time to watch the video, so highlights:

1. A 1000 lb EV battery requires mining/processing 500,000 lbs of rock
2. If/when 50% of the world's automobiles are EVs, global oil consumption will be reduced just 10%

 

[Pape]

I’ll gladly explain it. You speak as though you are some kind of authority on everyone’s wants and needs regarding vehicles and are offended that someone doesn’t agree with you that ICE is superior in every way. That’s your opinion, but it doesn’t mean much to some of us around here nor does it reflect our reality.

I do not think it is me the problem here but maybe you having a problem with the thread subject.

Let me quote your first post for you

 

[JesseT]

Doesn't appear many posters in this thread took the time to watch the video, so highlights:

1. A 1000 lb EV battery requires mining/processing 500,000 lbs of rock
2. If/when 50% of the world's automobiles are EVs, global oil consumption will be reduced just 10%

To point 1: a 1,000 lb EV battery currently requires mining/processing 500,000 lbs of rock. This isn't a static figure. The mineral components of these batteries are highly recyclable and the more there are in circulation and in different phases of an EV battery's lifecycle the less mining of new material will be required.

To point 2: There's probably way more to be said about this point than is appropriate for a medium like a web forum. It's a fair criticism. I'm sure there's a component here of large corporate influences trying to shift the onus of responsibility to the end consumer (similar to the big push in the 80s and 90s for the consumer recycling of single-use plastics instead of pushing producers to use fewer), hence the focus on a relatively small segment of fuel use. There's also a component of just how screwed up and fuel-inefficient our global shipping and supply chain system is (see image below). If it weren't, that same number of private vehicles would make up a much bigger percentage of overall fuel consumption. All that said, expecting any governing bodies to have any sort of impact on the power weilded by these global powerhouses like Dole, Nestlé, A.P. Moller-Maersk, etc. is...optimistic. So most of the weight falls on the consumer because, pragmatically speaking, the other option is doing nothing.

 

[THAW]

The mineral components of these batteries are highly recyclable and the more there are in circulation and in different phases of an EV battery's lifecycle the less mining of new material will be required.

Currently about 5% of dead EV batteries are recycled.

 

[zouch]

[/QUOTE]

Once someone announces 500+, two of those charges go away, and I’m all about life getting easier.

one example, Lucid, has been making cars that get over 500 miles for several years already.
even their lowest-level sedan is rated over 400 miles on a charge now, and they claim to do ~180miles of charging in 10-15 minutes.
their all-out hotdog model (the Sapphire) is doing 0-60 times in under 2 seconds, 1/4 mile runs in under 10 secs, and still charges almost 200 miles in under 20 mins or so. it's one of the quickest machines on the planet, and street legal.
i've been in a few, and even the models that cost less than half the Sapphire are beautiful machines and absurdly fun to drive.

You can thank the Prius drivers for making it political. A survey was done of Prius drivers only, and when asked why they bought one, 78% said it as to make a statement that they were greener than you.

The second reason was because they didn’t want to have to pay for gas to commute.

yes, the Prii owners were a special sort; a very few even bought them exclusively to buy their way into what used to be Car Pool Lanes.
a local shop (yes, here in Berkeley) posted a breakdown of ownership costs for a Prius compared to a comparable non-hybrid, and the Prius was in no way less expensive to own. their summary was (paraphrashing) buy one if you want to try to make a statement about and/or possibly help the environment, but don't expect that it's going to save you any money. many Hybridiots were not happy.

 

[LAM]

Does this mean about 50lb of rock are processed to make my cell phone battery?

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