Foolish salesperson

Scott.B

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the transmission isn’t the problem per se, it’s the engine it’s attached to, combined with the axle ratio and driver habits. M/T drivers aren’t typically cruising at 2200 RPM like this engine needs.

2200 about my highway rpm give or take a little. Probably reason I have never seen the 20 mpg ever :)
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OllieChristopher

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Really? I've paid cash for my last 5 Jeeps, our house and condo and my credit score is in the mid 830's.
You have a valid point Mike. What I'm about to say you already know.

It's hard to reason with those who are not versed in property or business ownership. When you have multiple property holdings, own your own business, and/or have other valuable liquid assets, credit cards have no factor whatsoever in a credit score.

In fact getting a credit score of 830+ is almost impossible by just keeping credit cards paid off.

Google searches with the standard "use your credit card often and pay it off each month" is laughable!!

I commend you Sir. It takes a lot of dedication and effort to get even past 800.
 

dooms

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I absolutely don't have those problems. Do you own one? Are just go on test drives? My MT is just fine I cruise at 70 to 75 always 6th gear. I only get 15 to 16 mpg but hardly gutless. Its a jeep not a sports car.
Completely agree. My 2014 Willys is a manual as well as my 2021. Definitely a huge difference with the 2021 (for the better) but neither are gutless and I enjoy both. I've owned 8 or 9 M/T vehicles over the last 35 years - trucks and muscle cars. I have no complaints with jeep manuals.

I had a 77 Ford F-250 and a 76 CJ-5 with manuals (as would be expected) and those were...a bit challenging at times in stop and go driving, but even those were fun!
 

mwilk012

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You have a valid point Mike. What I'm about to say you already know.

It's hard to reason with those who are not versed in property or business ownership. When you have multiple property holdings, own your own business, and/or have other valuable liquid assets, credit cards have no factor whatsoever in a credit score.

In fact getting a credit score of 830+ is almost impossible by just keeping credit cards paid off.

Google searches with the standard "use your credit card often and pay it off each month" is laughable!!

I commend you Sir. It takes a lot of dedication and effort to get even past 800.
Thats a good way for someone with no credit to establish a rating worth getting a home loan. It’s not entirely worthless advice.
 

OllieChristopher

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Thats a good way for someone with no credit to establish a rating worth getting a home loan. It’s not entirely worthless advice.
It's a start for sure. In my neck of the woods right now it's hard to get a decent price on anything regardless of credit. I would to go to some of the dealerships and get some VIN numbers then go back in a month. If some of those Wranglers are what you are looking for then the price can maybe be knocked down considerably.
 

zakaron

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Have you driven the manual JL? You really should. I've driven M/T's my whole life and the one they put in the JL/JT is a gutless POS and is no enjoyment to drive at all.
Absolutely, because I own one! I too have driven manuals all my life (I’ve owned 10 in the past 22 years). I’m not a fan of the wide gearing paired with the pentastar, nor do I care for the tall 3.45 diff gearing, but I would not trade it for an automatic. I have just over 7800 miles on it and have no regerts. Or regrets.
 

The Last Cowboy

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All the tips and tricks. Much of the advice is good here. But srriving for a high credit score? I haven’t had a credit card for decades. Never had an issue buying anything at the lowest available rates. I don’t even know what my score is. I owe on 2 things, my Jeep and my house.
 

rikity

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Honest question.

On way too many occasions I ask for an "Out the Door" price on a vehicle only to be asked what payment am I looking for. The only thing that has ever gotten the salesperson to stop trying to get me to say a number is to tell him I'm paying cash.

I'm not but I already have my financing arranged and a price range I am willing to spend.

So how do I politely tell the salesperson that I am not interested in haggling on a trade, monthly payments, and add-ons other than saying "I'm paying cash".

I just want a price with taxes and fees out the door.


With Jeeps its easy. I have a guy who has made my last two so easy to buy that if he gave me a quote at MSRP, I would just pay it..
Its instruction from the desk (sales manager), the idea is to get a payment close because there are so many variables in there and each $17/mo = $1000 up or down. In the beginning all the training is about getting you away from negotiating sales price and trade price into the lower two boxes of the 4 square which are money down and payment. Those are the the most profitable numbers to negotiate because it leaves it up to finance to put in products.

To get away from that, you can tell them you have a pre-approval and you just want the amount you can bring a check in for to pay for it (out the door price). You essentially want a sheet that breaks down every cost and fee in the deal. This is where they have to drop their pants and show you what they are trying to add for products on top of sell price. You're going to have to sit in the finance office at some point anyway so dont worry so much about getting the total before going in there. Just get your sell price and trade value and when you get to finance, tell them you dont want the other stuff; warranty, gap insurance, maintenance plan, window tint etc etc. They might stick to their guns on some adds like window tint because they do have to pay to put those on after the vehicle arrives from the factory, generally the cost is marked up 2x-3x. Tinting 2 windows on a vehicle cost about $100 and they'll even try and mark it up to $600. most of the time they dont tint all 5 windows because the rear ones come tinted from the factory.

If you want the out the door price, they should give it to you though. Just refuse to negotiate payment and down payment. There is nowhere else to go if you wont do it so they have to move along to the next step.
 

Yogi

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Not that sheet.

I’ve made two friends who work in the industry. One is a college buddy who sells ford pickups. The other is an independent buyers agent who i used to purchase a truck at a discount. They both helped me understand the inner workings of car dealerships, in particular who gets paid and how. I learned a lot from each of them, and In return I’ve reciprocated with friendship and the occasional advice where I have professional specialization. I’d recommend everyone making a friend in the industry if possible.

The belief that every single Jeep must be sold at a fat margin is naive. New vehicle sales can be one of the least lucrative segments at a dealership. Yes, the larger dealership operation needs to be profitable on the whole, on average and over time, but each and every transaction need not be at a fat margin.

I manage investments for a living. I got a whole lot better at my job once I learned to cut my losers quickly and reallocate capital back to better opportunities. Dealerships can be seen as portfolio managers also. It can make sense for them eat losses, or sell at break even, if it generates revenues at other parts of the dealership or frees up capital to finance the next wave of inventory. A savvy Jeep buyer can benefit from capitalizing on this motivation. I’m also glad there are buyers out there who doubt it can be done, though, because it helps underwrite the opportunity.

Edit: for what it’s worth, a former neighbor of mine owned the local mercury dealership back when that brand was more prevalent. He was not the wealthy fat cat your post implies. Successful, and self-made? Yes. But not 1% rich or anything like that.
You're fortunate. You're in the 1% group ... the 1% of people that actually know someone at a dealership that is in a position to point them towards good opportunities to buy. Saves you having to search out those dealerships that have undersold their volume commitments.

I totally agree with you that the new vehicle purchase is the least profitable segment of the business. Ideally they are after the service work, which is one of the most profitable, (the other being the body shop) especially warranty work of which about 85% of it is a license to print money.

I buy class 8 trucks, and one thing I have noticed, and have had a dealer principle confirm this, is that the more you beat down the sales department on price, the less likely you are to get latitude from the service department on some of those "questionable" warranty repairs and policy adjustments, plus you tend to get front-of-the-line service when the dealership service department is super busy. I don't expect it's any different in the Jeep world.

Mercury dealerships !!! ... we must be close to the same age ... I remember those too. Bought my first new car from one ... a 1984 Mercury Lynx ... LOL
 

rikity

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All the tips and tricks. Much of the advice is good here. But srriving for a high credit score? I haven’t had a credit card for decades. Never had an issue buying anything at the lowest available rates. I don’t even know what my score is. I owe on 2 things, my Jeep and my house.
As long as you have some piece of credit active you're fine. If you dont have anything at all financed your score zeros out after a few years.
 

Sargeoverland

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After being in sales, and having people show up and produce acronyms that are on the forums. I learned sort of what people were asking for and returned the oh you’re looking for this. People online think the employees are also online. They have how many different models to know along with their trims. I’m going to agree with everyone else asking for a jl rubicon with the diesel would’ve been a much better start. And then saved you time by not having to post on here about how dumb sale people are. When in fact they are most likely taking home more than you. They can simply tell you no I don’t want to sell a car to you and 15 minutes later someone else will buy it. Now is not the market to be condescending to sales people. Nor should you ever.
 

Punknhed

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the transmission isn’t the problem per se, it’s the engine it’s attached to, combined with the axle ratio and driver habits. M/T drivers aren’t typically cruising at 2200 RPM like this engine needs.
absolutely true. and exactly how i feel about mine.
 

Scott.B

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Buying a new car is all fun and stuff until you get to the salesmen part! Sort of goes with "All fun until someone loses an eyeball!"
 

sixspeed

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did you really ask for a JLURD? Unless you’re on forums that’s not a common phrase. Perhaps 4 door rubicon diesel would be a better start?
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Sadly, this is probably right. I mentioned death wobble to service people once and they were clueless. I test drove a Rubicon once and when it sort of got stuck in 4 wheel low, the salesman had no idea what to do. Too bad that people that sell the cars don’t share the knowledge and enthusiasm that the people who want the cars have.
 

Heimkehr

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I mentioned death wobble to service people once and they were clueless.

I test drove a Rubicon once and when it sort of got stuck in 4 wheel low, the salesman had no idea what to do.

Too bad that people that sell the cars don’t share the knowledge and enthusiasm that the people who want the cars have.
My salesman, who claimed to be a JKU owner, was silent every time I mentioned the poor (wandering) steering feel on two of the three new JLUs that I test drove at his dealership. I even suggested the tires might be overinflated. Still nothing but radio silence from the passenger seat.

Also, almost half of the questions I asked received the reply, "I believe so." That's just a nice way of saying one doesn't know. I did hope that he'd follow up with "I'll get the answer for you before you leave today."

Nope.

I sold myself the new Jeep that I eventually purchased. The salesman did little more than retrieve the keys for the test drives, which is something the lot jockey could have done.

I'd have guessed that my experience was an outlier, but there's any number of posts on this forum that suggest otherwise. That's unfortunate.
 
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