Foolish salesperson

[Megawatt]

Its like this everywhere, not just jeep dealerships.....I wish I had a delorean too go back to 1985 .....I'd stay there

Actually saw a DeLorean filling up the gas station last week.

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[OllieChristopher]

Tell me you have a low credit score, without telling me you have a low credit score.

And no, you can't possibly have a high score. Not with only paying cash and not knowing how or being willing to play finance games.

When I was using my credit cards and paying a mortgage my score was outstanding. I'm nearing retirement and do not need credit. I was smart enough as a young man so I now have enough passive income to live comfortably without having to toil and rely on active income to survive.

I can play games with the best of them. I'm a grown man and choose to be an adult and not stoop to that level nor need to to get a good deal. You do what you have to and I'll do the same.

And Dave, I will ask politely to please not assume you know my credit score and disparage me because I choose a lifestyle and negotiate deals differently than you. Thank you.

 

[Heimkehr]

I don't play games when it comes to money. I know how much I will pay and what I want before setting foot in a dealership. I don't let emotions factor into my purchasing decisions.

In fact I find everything possible wrong with a new vehicle to get the price even lower than what I'm willing to pay.

I've done the same, as a buyer, and likely to a lesser degree than you have. So, I do have some patience with that behavior when I'm the seller. I get it; everyone wants a deal. Let's talk.

That said, there are limits to what I'll tolerate. I once dismissed a guy who really started to play games with me as it concerned a clean used truck that I was selling privately. He had passed the sniff test during our phone convo, but once there in person he upshifted to Jerk pretty quickly. Buh bye.

 

[Megawatt]

I dunno. I got tired of reading the same post of….

Whats the best tire?
What’s the best oil?
Who make the best lift?
What MPG is everyone getting?
Etc…..

So I figure I would make a silly post and see what happens. Did it really happen or not? I will leave it up to the readers to decide.
The thread is on page 16 as of 9 Oct. Its fun to read the responses.

 

[OllieChristopher]

Yes James, I can relate. I look at buying a new car just as the dealer would look at a trade in. We all know darn well they are going to put it on a lift and inspect every square inch of a trade in to find everything wrong to give the lowest offer they can.

 

[mnjeeper]

And Dave, I will ask politely to please not assume you know my credit score and disparage me because I choose a lifestyle and negotiate deals differently than you. Thank you.

Neat. You judge the hell out of others, but don't want to be judged. No worries, enjoy!

 

[MKC JL]

Tell me you have a low credit score, without telling me you have a low credit score.

And no, you can't possibly have a high score. Not with only paying cash and not knowing how or being willing to play finance games.

Really? I've paid cash for my last 5 Jeeps, our house and condo and my credit score is in the mid 830's.

 

[rikity]

When I was emailing dealers last year about custom order pricing and said the manual transmission was a must-have, I had one dealer email me back with a link to an automatic on their lot. I crossed them off my list immediately.

Have you driven the manual JL? You really should. I've driven M/T's my whole life and the one they put in the JL/JT is a gutless POS and is no enjoyment to drive at all.

 

[rikity]

Yes James, I can relate. I look at buying a new car just as the dealer would look at a trade in. We all know darn well they are going to put it on a lift and inspect every square inch of a trade in to find everything wrong to give the lowest offer they can.

My manager rarely gets up from his desk to go look at it, let alone me drag it back to service and put it on a lift. Maybe I'm at a more laid back store or something. We do send them through service for a safety inspection, this generally happens days after the transaction is complete and many times we find stuff wrong with trades.

Generally we look at it like this. Who is the buyer and what is their motivation to get out of their old vehicle and into something else? If its a person that just gets something new every 1-3 years so its always in warranty, I really just look for tires and body damage and check the history for accidents. If its an older vehicle, it is quite common for some kind of gremlin to be going on there and it has a minor or major issue that needs to be addressed. Thats why we "Trade" vehicles $3k below wholesale book, because we're figuring in some reconditioning.

After the dealer pack gets added and its serviced and cleaned up, we own it in most cases a couple K lower than wholesale book, we try and sell it somewhere between wholesale and retail. As it sits on the lot, we slowly creep the price down and once the thing is 65 days old it gets written down and transferred to another store. Thats the rabbit. We try to make somewhere between 2-5k on the front end and the finance makes about that much too if they sell you a warranty and/or other products. I make 25% of gross profit on used, so if we get $3k over cost thats a $750 commission, I'll tell you that most of them land around $300-400 if you averaged everything together for the 10 years I've done this.

If you're the guy buying a new Jeep at 11% under invoice, I'm going to make the "mini" of $150. I also dont get 25% on new, its 1/2 that. So I have to get more than $1200 over invoice to make more than a mini. I dont get paid on holdback, flooring or any of that other BS. Its only what someone buys it for above invoice. Pre-Covid when everyone was racing to push new stuff out the door for invoice or below that, it was very common to make that $150 on all the new stuff I sold. Believe me, I had 0 motivation to sell at invoice or less too because not only do I make less than average on the sale, I have to do a good enough job to get an absolute perfect 10/10 on every survey question because 8/10 or lower is a fail. I also have to spend an hour or more delivering the vehicle, pairing phones, showing people how to operate everything on it all while they just want to get out of there. All of those things and thats when a sale is even made. Imagine how many phone in people shopping 20 dealers looking for the bottom dollar deal that need to be worked with before getting to that point?

I know you guys hate car salespeople, but believe it or not. I'm still a person that has a family and bills just like you. I didnt always do this. I used to do many other things in the first 1/2 of my life that werent related to this business. I'm not speaking for everyone in the industry, because many dont last longer than 3 months. The vast majority dont. So the people you guys deal with are the green horns that are puppets controlled by the sales manager, which is a bad experience from beginning to end or a seasoned veteran thats worked 1000's of car deals.

I hate to tell it to you, but none of what you guys have talked about here is any kind of surprise. A large portion of the public still thinks they can get the best deal by paying cash. Heck, a good portion of the time they say they're paying cash but they went and got a loan somewhere else. Its not helping your deal at all by saying your paying cash. Nobody is impressed with it. I'm more impressed by the guy thats figured out that paying 3% interest and investing the cash somewhere and earning 10-20%.

Dont get focused on the front end part of the deal. So many people do it and the sell price or trade value is 95% of it. I've seen so many saavy buyers do great and shaft me with the mini, then go and literally get reamed in finance because they know nothing about it. The entire dealership structure has shifted from sell price to making the money on the "back end". The buying public is still in the 80's though. In the end its about the buyer getting the feeling they got their good deal or what they wanted. Be that its a $5000 profit for the dealer, or a $100 profit. From what I've seen, the people that we make the least money on are the ones that are never happy about anything and are the worst people to deal with. Dont be that guy, you can get a good deal and screw us over for sure, its rare but you can if you are educated enough. Just dont be a miserable buyer thats not happy when you do get that deal because you think you still left money on the table.

 

[mwilk012]

Have you driven the manual JL? You really should. I've driven M/T's my whole life and the one they put in the JL/JT is a gutless POS and is no enjoyment to drive at all.

the transmission isn’t the problem per se, it’s the engine it’s attached to, combined with the axle ratio and driver habits. M/T drivers aren’t typically cruising at 2200 RPM like this engine needs.

 

[Deleted member 59498]

Cash is king no matter what anyone says. It's how you use it is what matters. Financing will never ever give you as many buying options than a cash deal.

That being said, 2nd best option is pre financing.

As far as the dealer goes why does he care if I have cash or my own financing. All the same to them? I am sure they don't care for it but I am always per-approved with my own financing. I just use NFCU and get a good rate and a check in the mail. I don't see how me having a 45k dollar check with NFCU on it or me having a Check with Scott on it matters on any level to a dealer. 2.6% financing instead of pulling out of my savings making 3 to 5 times that just makes more sense to me.

 

[Chris2183]

I hate to tell it to you, but none of what you guys have talked about here is any kind of surprise. A large portion of the public still thinks they can get the best deal by paying cash. Heck, a good portion of the time they say they're paying cash but they went and got a loan somewhere else. Its not helping your deal at all by saying your paying cash. Nobody is impressed with it. I'm more impressed by the guy thats figured out that paying 3% interest and investing the cash somewhere and earning 10-20%.

Honest question.

On way too many occasions I ask for an "Out the Door" price on a vehicle only to be asked what payment am I looking for. The only thing that has ever gotten the salesperson to stop trying to get me to say a number is to tell him I'm paying cash.

I'm not but I already have my financing arranged and a price range I am willing to spend.

So how do I politely tell the salesperson that I am not interested in haggling on a trade, monthly payments, and add-ons other than saying "I'm paying cash".

I just want a price with taxes and fees out the door.


With Jeeps its easy. I have a guy who has made my last two so easy to buy that if he gave me a quote at MSRP, I would just pay it..

 

[Deleted member 59498]

Have you driven the manual JL? You really should. I've driven M/T's my whole life and the one they put in the JL/JT is a gutless POS and is no enjoyment to drive at all.

I absolutely don't have those problems. Do you own one? Are just go on test drives? My MT is just fine I cruise at 70 to 75 always 6th gear. I only get 15 to 16 mpg but hardly gutless. Its a jeep not a sports car.

 

[mnjeeper]

Really? I've paid cash for my last 5 Jeeps, our house and condo and my credit score is in the mid 830's.

Good for you, but if you know your score, you also know how you got there, yea? With no loans and no revolving accounts, that score is damn near impossible. So you are doing CC usage and paying off in full monthly is my guess and have for a LONG time to be up there. If I am correct...you are still playing the game so to speak. I couldn't break 820 forever when I was chasing 850 (never got there, was too much work). Ended up breaking it by opening CC #8 or 9...it's ridiculous.

 

[Deleted member 59498]

the transmission isn’t the problem per se, it’s the engine it’s attached to, combined with the axle ratio and driver habits. M/T drivers aren’t typically cruising at 2200 RPM like this engine needs.

2200 about my highway rpm give or take a little. Probably reason I have never seen the 20 mpg ever

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