Foolish salesperson

[entropy]

did you really ask for a JLURD? Unless you’re on forums that’s not a common phrase. Perhaps 4 door rubicon diesel would be a better start?

Exactly. Nobody goes around saying they have a JLURD. That sounds silly. Even if you said that to me irl id be confused for a second.

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[mnjeeper]

Cash is king no matter what anyone says. It's how you use it is what matters. Financing will never ever give you as many buying options than a cash deal.

That being said, 2nd best option is pre financing.

I realize I will look like an ass for saying this, but I am correct. Someone who says what you say and thinks the system can't be gamed, well, you aren't at the top of the pile. I'm also not, but I know how to game dealer financing, zero percent, etc.

 

[rikity]

I'm curious ... who has actually seen the dealer's invoice ???

You mean outside a dealership? We showed them to people back in the day, to "prove" they're getting a good deal. Funny thing is it doesnt help, you all think we ran back and typed up the whole thing and made up the numbers and we're really making 50% profit on everything leaving the lot.

Invoice is somewhere in the range of 4% below MSRP on a Sport all the way up to 7% on a Rubicon with many options. Theres a holdback amount thats below invoice and some sort of factory kickbacks that the sales guys never get a piece of.

 

[Yogi]

You mean outside a dealership? We showed them to people back in the day, to "prove" they're getting a good deal. Funny thing is it doesnt help, you all think we ran back and typed up the whole thing and made up the numbers and we're really making 50% profit on everything leaving the lot.

Invoice is somewhere in the range of 4% below MSRP on a Sport all the way up to 7% on a Rubicon with many options. Theres a holdback amount thats below invoice and some sort of factory kickbacks that the sales guys never get a piece of.

Right ... what end-consumer actually sees the dealer's final invoice from the manufacturer? None. Ever.
Maybe "back in the day" (which has different connotations depending on your age) you showed an invoice to the customer, but a customer never saw the final manufacturer's invoice.
I will also wager that a vehicle never left the lot where the dealership did not make its profit margin somewhere along the line.
(Dealer principle selling a vehicle to his wife/brother/sister/mistress excepted of course.)
A car dealership works no different than a pirate ship, or any other business for that matter. The business gets paid first, then everyone else gets paid after in descending order ... the owner, the employees, the vendors, then the tax man.
(I should note that pirate ships never paid taxes.)

 

[Yogi]

we're really making 50% profit on everything leaving the lot.

Truth be told, over the entire build cycle of a vehicle there is quite likely a 50% profit (or more) in them, just the dealership doesn't get that much.
When you consider that every assembly, sub assembly, sub-sub assembly, and sub-sub-sub assembly that was supplied to make the major assembly parts of a vehicle was provide at a price that included a profit margin, it is not too difficult to extrapolate that the true raw cost of a vehicle is considerably less than the consumer price.
Take the steel alone. The mining company that dug up the iron ore made a profit. The steel company that smelted it made a profit. The pickling company that treated the steel made a profit. The stamping company that made the fender made a profit. Every transportation link and warehouse between these processes made a profit.
Extrapolate that across every system and subsystem and there's a lot of profit margins to add up.

 

[rikity]

Truth be told, over the entire build cycle of a vehicle there is quite likely a 50% profit (or more) in them, just the dealership doesn't get that much.
When you consider that every assembly, sub assembly, sub-sub assembly, and sub-sub-sub assembly that was supplied to make the major assembly parts of a vehicle was provide at a price that included a profit margin, it is not too difficult to extrapolate that the true raw cost of a vehicle is considerably less than the consumer price.
Take the steel alone. The mining company that dug up the iron ore made a profit. The steel company that smelted it made a profit. The pickling company that treated the steel made a profit. The stamping company that made the fender made a profit. Every transportation link and warehouse between these processes made a profit.
Extrapolate that across every system and subsystem and there's a lot of profit margins to add up.

Well in the case of FCA/Stellantis, I doubt there's that much margin after all the recalls

 

[Yogi]

Well in the case of FCA/Stellantis, I doubt there's that much margin after all the recalls

FCA/Stellantis, or any other car company for that matter, does not pay for those recalls. The company that supplied the offending part pays for them. That's why the company that supplied all of those defective airbags to Toyota and Honda(?) went broke.

 

[csjlu]

Right ... what end-consumer actually sees the dealer's final invoice from the manufacturer? None. Ever.
Maybe "back in the day" (which has different connotations depending on your age) you showed an invoice to the customer, but a customer never saw the final manufacturer's invoice.
I will also wager that a vehicle never left the lot where the dealership did not make its profit margin somewhere along the line.
(Dealer principle selling a vehicle to his wife/brother/sister/mistress excepted of course.)
A car dealership works no different than a pirate ship, or any other business for that matter. The business gets paid first, then everyone else gets paid after in descending order ... the owner, the employees, the vendors, then the tax man.
(I should note that pirate ships never paid taxes.)

A good salesman will show you the pricing sheet. If one knows how to read it, one you can estimate pretty closely what the dealer cost is. This sheet will not include manufacturer-to-dealer incentives, floor-planning costs, or any volume discounts...but the former is easy to find out, the middle is unknowable not really of a buyer's concern, and the latter can only be determined after all sales in a period are finalized. Most of the information is discoverable for those who want to know it.

I had a high degree of confidence what my dealer's cost was when I was buying, and I bid just high enough above it that the dealer, salesperson and buyer (me) got what they wanted.

 

[Yogi]

A good salesman will show you the pricing sheet. If one knows how to read it, one you can estimate pretty closely what the dealer cost is. This sheet will not include manufacturer-to-dealer incentives, floor-planning costs, or any volume discounts...but the former is easy to find out, the middle is unknowable not really of a buyer's concern, and the latter can only be determined after all sales in a period are finalized. Most of the information is discoverable for those who want to know it.

I had a high degree of confidence what my dealer's cost was when I was buying, and I bid just high enough above it that the dealer, salesperson and buyer (me) got what they wanted.

Would that pricing sheet be the one that's generated internally at the dealership? Kind of looks like an Excel spreadsheet? The one that lists all the vehicles on the lot with a number alongside each one? Is that the one?
If that's the one you are referring to, it's also known as a sell sheet. Keyword; sell.
Ever give any thought as to why they so willingly show that?
A high degree of confidence? How can that be? By your own admission the pricing sheet is incomplete, and other costs are unknowable. How could you possibly be highly confident that you knew your dealer's cost? At best you guessed at a cost, ball-parked the unknown, and threw out a number.
Does anyone really believe that a dealership is going to show you their per unit cost, as well as their back office expenses and overheads, then ask what you would like to pay for a vehicle?
Has anyone ever seen a dealer principle living in a hovel?
New vehicle dealers make profits, and good profits. That's why dealerships, for any brand, are such coveted franchises. They make money.
Look, I'm not trying to bust anyone's balls over whether they got a good deal or not. Obviously each of us is satisfied or we wouldn't have completed the purchases we have made.
All I'm saying is that despite everyone's good deals, or negotiating prowess, everyone, without exception, paid the dealer's profit margin. Some paid more. No one ever paid less.
Look at it this way; if a dealership didn't make a profit they wouldn't be there next week to deny your Jeep's steering box warranty claim because you installed an aftermarket refrigerated cup holder

 

[Heimkehr]

FCA/Stellantis, or any other car company for that matter, does not pay for those recalls. The company that supplied the offending part pays for them.

That's why the company that supplied all of those defective airbags to Toyota and Honda(?) went broke.

I had four faulty Takata air bag modules replaced in two Hondas. I hadn't given the matter much thought, since my dealer made the process rather easy.

I eventually did a bit of research to determine what could have gone wrong, via a faulty inflator unit, during a deployment. It wasn't pleasant. Fingers crossed that the new entity doesn't screw up again.

 

[OllieChristopher]

I'm curious ... who has actually seen the dealer's invoice ???

I have on almost every new vehicle 2 wheel and 4. You simply ask for it. Of course they can turn you down. Most of the time a dealer has no problem producing the invoice and sharing it with a customer. Invoice is a very small part of negotiating a good deal. Holdbacks, dealer incentives, how long it's been on the lot, etc factor in the cost.

 

[OllieChristopher]

I realize I will look like an ass for saying this, but I am correct. Someone who says what you say and thinks the system can't be gamed, well, you aren't at the top of the pile. I'm also not, but I know how to game dealer financing, zero percent, etc.

I don't play games when it comes to money. I know how much I will pay and what I want before setting foot in a dealership. I don't let emotions factor into my purchasing decisions. In fact I find everything possible wrong with a new vehicle to get the price even lower than what I'm willing to pay.

 

[csjlu]

Would that pricing sheet be the one that's generated internally at the dealership? Kind of looks like an Excel spreadsheet? The one that lists all the vehicles on the lot with a number alongside each one? Is that the one?
If that's the one you are referring to, it's also known as a sell sheet. Keyword; sell.
Ever give any thought as to why they so willingly show that?
A high degree of confidence? How can that be? By your own admission the pricing sheet is incomplete, and other costs are unknowable. How could you possibly be highly confident that you knew your dealer's cost? At best you guessed at a cost, ball-parked the unknown, and threw out a number.
Does anyone really believe that a dealership is going to show you their per unit cost, as well as their back office expenses and overheads, then ask what you would like to pay for a vehicle?
Has anyone ever seen a dealer principle living in a hovel?
New vehicle dealers make profits, and good profits. That's why dealerships, for any brand, are such coveted franchises. They make money.
Look, I'm not trying to bust anyone's balls over whether they got a good deal or not. Obviously each of us is satisfied or we wouldn't have completed the purchases we have made.
All I'm saying is that despite everyone's good deals, or negotiating prowess, everyone, without exception, paid the dealer's profit margin. Some paid more. No one ever paid less.
Look at it this way; if a dealership didn't make a profit they wouldn't be there next week to deny your Jeep's steering box warranty claim because you installed an aftermarket refrigerated cup holder

Not that sheet.

I’ve made two friends who work in the industry. One is a college buddy who sells ford pickups. The other is an independent buyers agent who i used to purchase a truck at a discount. They both helped me understand the inner workings of car dealerships, in particular who gets paid and how. I learned a lot from each of them, and In return I’ve reciprocated with friendship and the occasional advice where I have professional specialization. I’d recommend everyone making a friend in the industry if possible.

The belief that every single Jeep must be sold at a fat margin is naive. New vehicle sales can be one of the least lucrative segments at a dealership. Yes, the larger dealership operation needs to be profitable on the whole, on average and over time, but each and every transaction need not be at a fat margin.

I manage investments for a living. I got a whole lot better at my job once I learned to cut my losers quickly and reallocate capital back to better opportunities. Dealerships can be seen as portfolio managers also. It can make sense for them eat losses, or sell at break even, if it generates revenues at other parts of the dealership or frees up capital to finance the next wave of inventory. A savvy Jeep buyer can benefit from capitalizing on this motivation. I’m also glad there are buyers out there who doubt it can be done, though, because it helps underwrite the opportunity.

Edit: for what it’s worth, a former neighbor of mine owned the local mercury dealership back when that brand was more prevalent. He was not the wealthy fat cat your post implies. Successful, and self-made? Yes. But not 1% rich or anything like that.

 

[zakaron]

When I was emailing dealers last year about custom order pricing and said the manual transmission was a must-have, I had one dealer email me back with a link to an automatic on their lot. I crossed them off my list immediately.

 

[mnjeeper]

I don't play games when it comes to money. I know how much I will pay and what I want before setting foot in a dealership. I don't let emotions factor into my purchasing decisions. In fact I find everything possible wrong with a new vehicle to get the price even lower than what I'm willing to pay.

Tell me you have a low credit score, without telling me you have a low credit score.

And no, you can't possibly have a high score. Not with only paying cash and not knowing how or being willing to play finance games.

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