EV vs ICE

[JLfromCA]

In the near to medium term ice vehicles will definitely have better resale value. EV technology is changing so fast, in 10 years they’ll look at the current crop of EV’s like cassette or eight track tapes. Nobody will want them. However, there will always be diehard ice fans. There’s not many fans of old outdated electronics.

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[ecidiego]

you sound triggered. Be glad you haven’t experienced what I have in so cal. You must be behind the gates.

you sound triggered. nope, no gates. no generator. no solar batteries.

I've never seen a more scared bunch of guys than those terrified of EVs. LOL. We can keep our Jeeps guys, they aren't taking them from us.

 

[Jeep to EVC]

The pollution of this subject is overwhelming - not just here, at the big site as well (jeepforum).

More crazies and apparently more 'Biden lovin' tree huggers' as well.

Try this, pure exercise here: Compare a Wrangler, any year, doesn't mater, to a theoretical EV equivalent.

I can speak to some of that because I'm making a kit to do a User drop in motor swap from ICE to EV.

FORGET everything external to a Jeep that derives work motion (driving) from any liquid fuel to the same exact vehicle that derives work motion from stored electrons - EV.

Start with the completely insane specs of a Jeep, something that hasn't really changed in about 50 years: 13-16mpg, around 180 - 220 driving range, aerodynamics of a 4x6 block of wood, safety features that include nothing, that's about it - right.

Now, if I swap in a Hyper9HV 3-phase motor that has almost exactly the same HP and torque of a stock Jeep motor (pick any stock Jeep motor for a CJ / Wrangler, doesn't matter) with about 7 battery modules and a range of just over 120miles.

Just compare that - assume both are working and driving and stuff.

Likewise assume neither of them is registered to vote and both hate all trees and anything that even smells green..

We don't drive long distances, we accept horrible MPG - in fact, we NOW do engine swaps that make MPG worse, if that's possible.

Take all that away including how the liquid fuel is sourced (ground, god, sand, dinosaurs, wishful thinking, whatever) and do the same for the charging of this non-existent Jeep EVC (Electric Vehicle Conversion). Likewise, forget the price of a gallon of gas or $/kWh of power.

JUST the pure spec of what and why we own AND keep Jeeps forever - the EV is the clear winner for some.

Torque - EV (1rpm = 100% torque, hands down the winner in this one)
Distance - currently ICE (at least with my kit) but again, who cares beyond about 200ish miles?)
Comfort - really, does anybody buy a Jeep for it's creature comforts = equal
Reliability - purely on number of moving parts that can (and mostly do at the worst times) break - EV
Longevity - again, we have to have a heart of heart with inner hording selves and ask just how long we are going to keep that thing up on blocks in the back yard...- equal
Speed of refuel / recharge - ICE by about 40% faster with today's available battery / chargers
Joy of driving your favorite trail - this is the one I LOVE. We don't drive off-road for distance or comfort. We take our rigs off-road because we can, for some, because we MUST. In this one, the idling, noise, smell, inefficiency of needing to run your ICE motor for heat or cooling, or radio, accessories, etc. - EV takes this one (remember, all things being equal).
Safety - again, not a Toyota Camry. Liquid fuel, by it's nature, burns, car fires are common enough that we've taken necessary precautions to reduce the fate of burning to death - remember the 10 gallon tank below the drivers seat in early CJ's? I had one of those (LOVED my yellow 1968 CJ-5a - LOVED IT!) Or a Pinto or EVERY pickup truck with a tank right behind all the passengers or before PCV or evap tanks. EV's don't tend to catch fire, but they do on occasion. And sometimes, the reasons aren't clear. Runaway can be a big problem BUT only for a small number of vehicles AND allowing for the tech, in it's infancy, I think you have to give it to EVs. BUT, the fear of the unknown can exaggerate that and make it seem like the opposite. ' It caught on fire and I don't know why so every EV is a death trap!' - I get it, I get it.

If you take away everything but Apple to Fictional Apple - the EV is the shizzle.

Add all the knee-jerk triggering (yes, I just learned you guys love to sling that near-insult around a LOT here) and pure hate of change, throw in politics (god knows why) with a dash of '...my cold dead hand' reaction to a swiftly changing world and NONE of what I put forth matters.

WRF - Try this, if I said I've got a motor swap from an ICE motor to a motor that runs on WRF - would anybody raise an eyebrow other then ask; 'How much is White Rhino Foreskin fuel in your area?'.

Change is comin', get your gun Pa! - All that, not going to work. Focus your energies on DRIVING the change, not being run over by it. 100% of the voices on this site (and the bigger one) ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT VOICES about all things Jeep.

Forget HOW we fill our 'tanks' - that's not your job, the free market will put a charger in your driveway or on every corner or not, doesn't matter.

It took us 10,000 years to go from portable fire to fuel and little over 100 years to go from horse to Honda (I couldn't think of a 'h' Jeep word, sue me). We're there again, right now. And, we never go backwards.

 

[JLfromCA]

Climate change is the new Covid. There is no rules or guard rails. Everything is on the table. The facts and common sense need not apply.

 

[BXFXJeep]

Climate change is the new Covid. There is no rules or guard rails. Everything is on the table. The facts and common sense need not apply.

COVID was more like Climate change on crack, driving fear using models extensively with fake and fudged data, where the "settled science" only allow changes when a lie gets exposed.

 

[Jeep to EVC]

Well, at least rational minds continue to agree to disagree....

 

[Dusty Dude]

The pollution of this subject is overwhelming - not just here, at the big site as well (jeepforum).

More crazies and apparently more 'Biden lovin' tree huggers' as well.

Try this, pure exercise here: Compare a Wrangler, any year, doesn't mater, to a theoretical EV equivalent.

I can speak to some of that because I'm making a kit to do a User drop in motor swap from ICE to EV.

FORGET everything external to a Jeep that derives work motion (driving) from any liquid fuel to the same exact vehicle that derives work motion from stored electrons - EV.

Start with the completely insane specs of a Jeep, something that hasn't really changed in about 50 years: 13-16mpg, around 180 - 220 driving range, aerodynamics of a 4x6 block of wood, safety features that include nothing, that's about it - right.

Now, if I swap in a Hyper9HV 3-phase motor that has almost exactly the same HP and torque of a stock Jeep motor (pick any stock Jeep motor for a CJ / Wrangler, doesn't matter) with about 7 battery modules and a range of just over 120miles.

Just compare that - assume both are working and driving and stuff.

Likewise assume neither of them is registered to vote and both hate all trees and anything that even smells green..

We don't drive long distances, we accept horrible MPG - in fact, we NOW do engine swaps that make MPG worse, if that's possible.

Take all that away including how the liquid fuel is sourced (ground, god, sand, dinosaurs, wishful thinking, whatever) and do the same for the charging of this non-existent Jeep EVC (Electric Vehicle Conversion). Likewise, forget the price of a gallon of gas or $/kWh of power.

JUST the pure spec of what and why we own AND keep Jeeps forever - the EV is the clear winner for some.

Torque - EV (1rpm = 100% torque, hands down the winner in this one)
Distance - currently ICE (at least with my kit) but again, who cares beyond about 200ish miles?)
Comfort - really, does anybody buy a Jeep for it's creature comforts = equal
Reliability - purely on number of moving parts that can (and mostly do at the worst times) break - EV
Longevity - again, we have to have a heart of heart with inner hording selves and ask just how long we are going to keep that thing up on blocks in the back yard...- equal
Speed of refuel / recharge - ICE by about 40% faster with today's available battery / chargers
Joy of driving your favorite trail - this is the one I LOVE. We don't drive off-road for distance or comfort. We take our rigs off-road because we can, for some, because we MUST. In this one, the idling, noise, smell, inefficiency of needing to run your ICE motor for heat or cooling, or radio, accessories, etc. - EV takes this one (remember, all things being equal).
Safety - again, not a Toyota Camry. Liquid fuel, by it's nature, burns, car fires are common enough that we've taken necessary precautions to reduce the fate of burning to death - remember the 10 gallon tank below the drivers seat in early CJ's? I had one of those (LOVED my yellow 1968 CJ-5a - LOVED IT!) Or a Pinto or EVERY pickup truck with a tank right behind all the passengers or before PCV or evap tanks. EV's don't tend to catch fire, but they do on occasion. And sometimes, the reasons aren't clear. Runaway can be a big problem BUT only for a small number of vehicles AND allowing for the tech, in it's infancy, I think you have to give it to EVs. BUT, the fear of the unknown can exaggerate that and make it seem like the opposite. ' It caught on fire and I don't know why so every EV is a death trap!' - I get it, I get it.

If you take away everything but Apple to Fictional Apple - the EV is the shizzle.

Add all the knee-jerk triggering (yes, I just learned you guys love to sling that near-insult around a LOT here) and pure hate of change, throw in politics (god knows why) with a dash of '...my cold dead hand' reaction to a swiftly changing world and NONE of what I put forth matters.

WRF - Try this, if I said I've got a motor swap from an ICE motor to a motor that runs on WRF - would anybody raise an eyebrow other then ask; 'How much is White Rhino Foreskin fuel in your area?'.

Change is comin', get your gun Pa! - All that, not going to work. Focus your energies on DRIVING the change, not being run over by it. 100% of the voices on this site (and the bigger one) ARE THE MOST IMPORTANT VOICES about all things Jeep.

Forget HOW we fill our 'tanks' - that's not your job, the free market will put a charger in your driveway or on every corner or not, doesn't matter.

It took us 10,000 years to go from portable fire to fuel and little over 100 years to go from horse to Honda (I couldn't think of a 'h' Jeep word, sue me). We're there again, right now. And, we never go backwards.

You completely white washed a lot of talking points. EV’s are not in their infancy. They have been around as long as the ICE, and they still aren’t ready for prime time. If they truly are the shizzle, then why are 80% of buyers getting rid of them and are returning to ICE?

 

[ecidiego]

80% of buyers getting rid of them and are returning to ICE?

Show your work, and not a clickbait Facebook news story post. Total nonsense.

If EV's "aren't ready for prime time", how did I put 90k on my Tesla over 5 years trouble free? Any tips you can share with me so I can hate it?

Paying 0 to drive ( solar has already paid for itself ) = the shizzle
Paying for gas = not the shizzle

The Wrangler will be a BEV by 2035. Accept it and embrace the future.

 

[THAW]

...who cares beyond about 200ish miles?

?‍

I couldn't think of a 'h' Jeep word, sue me

Some people derisively pronounce "Jeep" with the voiceless glottal fricative.

 

[Bobby Hank]

In a few years, next decade for sure, this argument will be moot. How? Why?
One word:

Hydrogen

It'll be interesting watching them learn how to effectively tax it.

https://www.bmw.com/en/innovation/how-hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars-work.html

 

[ecidiego]

In a few years, next decade for sure, this argument will be moot. How? Why?
One word:

Hydrogen

It'll be interesting watching them learn how to effectively tax it.

https://www.bmw.com/en/innovation/how-hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars-work.html

nah.

People bitch about "lack" of EV charging infrastructure. Imagine hydrogen. Hydrogen cars have been around forever.

FCEVs also lack the #1 benefit of BEV = at home charging, which is often free if you live in an area with sun.

San Diego electric bill for the month:

As soon as the gas water heater fails an electric is going in and I can widdle that gas bill to near 0. The $11.57 electric bill includes charging a Model Y to go ~1500 miles/month.

 

[2nd 392]

they still aren’t ready for prime time. If they truly are the shizzle, then why are 80% of buyers getting rid of them and are returning to ICE?

The Wrangler will be a BEV by 2035. Accept it and embrace the future.

Were un manipulated market forces allowed to prevail EV’s would simply be an additional choice for consumer needs, wants, and preference. With No Emotion Created. Regrettably

add - and willing accomplices

creating

with them being shoved up our a$$

 

[Pig-Pen]

you sound triggered. nope, no gates. no generator. no solar batteries.

I've never seen a more scared bunch of guys than those terrified of EVs. LOL. We can keep our Jeeps guys, they aren't taking them from us.

 

[Jeep to EVC]

You completely white washed a lot of talking points. EV’s are not in their infancy. They have been around as long as the ICE, and they still aren’t ready for prime time. If they truly are the shizzle, then why are 80% of buyers getting rid of them and are returning to ICE?

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT - just for one second, think about the absurdity of your last whack-doodle declarative of 80% of buyers pushing thier box of dead batteries back to their dealership - Tesla in 2022, produced 1,369,611 electric cars (up 47% year-over-year) *, if 1,095,689 of those were returned (80%), Tesla would already be out of business, done, dead, gone, your wet dream come to pass. AND that's 2022, spoiler alert, they made a BUNCH more in 2023 - shocker given how many they had returned...

But, just a quick check of the stock market, they're at 193.57 (down -22% YTD!!!), down a bunch but not dead. (NO, I own no Tesla stock or any other stock at all).

And look Dusty, I say again, powerful, strong and well reasoned AND constructive comments like you might have are valuable to the reader and ultimately Jeep mgt., but, when you say things, quote things that are soooo nutbaggery, it weakens your voice.

And has for my alleged 'whitewashing', I'll have you know, I ONLY use cold water so none of my colors run, no need to separate whites from colored in my all electric washing machine, proudly branded by American Maytag but fully built by them commie bastards in China or somewhere - GO AMERICA!

Anyway, silliness aside, if you go to my sited link below, you'll very quickly notice that this report while impressive, is by no means a glowing report card for Tesla. It points out how they've missed certain market benchmarks and might not see as much growth in 2024. I mention this ONLY so as to slow your knee-jerk reaction that I'm only pointing to shinny data to prove my point (which I don't have).

Footnotes:
* https://insideevs.com/news/703024/t...reference, in 2022, Tesla,-term target of 50%.

 

[Dusty Dude]

Show your work, and not a clickbait Facebook news story post. Total nonsense.

If EV's "aren't ready for prime time", how did I put 90k on my Tesla over 5 years trouble free? Any tips you can share with me so I can hate it?

Paying 0 to drive ( solar has already paid for itself ) = the shizzle
Paying for gas = not the shizzle

The Wrangler will be a BEV by 2035. Accept it and embrace the future.

I think you should be asking Jeep to EVC to show his work first. Just because you don’t agree with my comment doesn’t make it total nonsense. This isn’t about you or your situation. You live in San Diego. Try taking your EV to Minnesota for a winter. Did you see the charging graveyard in the news two weeks ago? That scenario happens every time it gets cold. The driving range where you live is a lot longer than in any snow belt state.

You won’t be able to use your solar unit to charge consistently while in Minnesota either due to the amount of overcast weather during the winter months. The cost of your solar system would buy a lot of gas. 90K miles at 16 MPG is around 5500 gallons of gas. Compare the cost of your system to the cost of 5500 gallons of gas. In my area, gas prices hover around just over $2 and under $2.50.

We were told by the New York Times that everything was going to be electric by the 70’s and it still hasn’t happened. We are always given a ten year window as to when it is going to happen. It never comes.

Every manufacturer is cutting back drastically on EV production because they are accepting the reality.

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