Engine Oil

[Odyssey USA]

Concurred; Lake Speed Jr. is a great resource, just make sure you pay attention to what he is actually saying and don't just read a YouTube title and make invalid assumptions.

While I love Project Farm, his oil testing isn't the most scientific or "accurate"; however, that doesn't mean there isn't useful information in his oil videos.

I agree

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[Odyssey USA]

Since you live in N.Y get 0w if you can instead of 5w, just for the below 0 period of the year. Also be advice that moving up grade just change the thickness range higher in the temperature scale while introducing higher thickness at the bottom of the temperature range. This is not a bad thing by itself until you get too thick and do more wear. Also a other thing to keep in mind when increasing thickness is the shearing that will result from forcing the oil in narrow passage. All in all, oil is more complex than just a brand, il is more inline whit environment, usage type, engine type and materials. Only recommendations I can provide is to use oil analysis to confirm you are on the good path or not in your oil selection.

That’s why if you look at the high temp high sheer rating along with a great additive package after getting a grasp on what all that means, change the oil every 5000 miles, then pick a W rating based on where you live and what temperatures you will see in the winter, you’ll be fine.

Was that a run-on sentence? lol

 

[Slippery Pete]

 

[Lionel Hutz]

Used Pennzoil Platinum 0w-20 every oil change at 7k miles for the last 70k miles. No issues at all, ever.

That’s what I use too. Use any good synthetic in the correct weight, change every 5-7k, and enjoy the Jeep. If you have engine problems it won’t be from the oil.

 

[Bobby Hank]

$25 rebate on 10 quarts right now too. Not bad when it's priced at only $23 at Walmart for a 5 qt jug!

I'm gonna go pre-buy some oil!!!

 

[Kracka]

I'm gonna go pre-buy some oil!!!

Expires 9/30/24
https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/prom...=L0RJWS9PMjU1NV81Ni9mb3JtLmNmbT9sYW5nPWVuLVVT

Note: You MUST purchase in-store, not online!

 

[Bobby Hank]

Expires 9/30/24
https://www.pennzoil.com/en_us/prom...=L0RJWS9PMjU1NV81Ni9mb3JtLmNmbT9sYW5nPWVuLVVT

Note: You MUST purchase in-store, not online!

I gotta fantastic Wally World right up the road. It's so nice, they don't even check receipts at the door!

The real question is.... Since I'm in teh FL Panhandle and it rarely gets below 30 and lives north of 80 80% of days, should I change viscosity? Debate for me oil maniacs!!

 

[YBABRAT]

I really wonder about people who push thicker oil on a 2019 on up v6. My engine is quiet and at 84K on odo. I run pure synthetic and 5w20 as specified. The newer v6 is not the same as previous years. Tolerances and how the engines design has changed. I did not know the newer v6 has a compression of over 11 to 1 with 87 octane. Some trickery magic done to allow it.

Note oil pressure reading with multi viscosity namely 5w20. Start up at 65° F oil pressure 32psi, fluctuated to 65 at idle. This occurred until engine warmed up. Using a thicker oil should increase pressure on both sides of spectrum. If the oil is doing what the engine requires for operation, there is no need to run higher than required viscosity.

If your engine is loud from lifter noise it is possible internal issues from left over sand or engine castings that have effected oiling. There is info on the net about v6 issues... though they are rare.

When I hear of references to Bob the oil guy... I want to run. There is a site for reference on oils of most all manufacturers. It's an engineers analysis with tonnes of info, if you are willing to read.

 

[YBABRAT]

I gotta fantastic Wally World right up the road. It's so nice, they don't even check receipts at the door!

The real question is.... Since I'm in teh FL Panhandle and it rarely gets below 30 and lives north of 80 80% of days, should I change viscosity? Debate for me oil maniacs!!

Not the same stuff that gave a good reputation. Like euro spec, this oil is not what it use to be, it's just a name.

 

[Tncdrew]

Don't ef'n waste your time with anything else. Use the best!

 

[Odyssey USA]

I really wonder about people who push thicker oil on a 2019 on up v6. My engine is quiet and at 84K on odo. I run pure synthetic and 5w20 as specified. The newer v6 is not the same as previous years. Tolerances and how the engines design has changed. I did not know the newer v6 has a compression of over 11 to 1 with 87 octane. Some trickery magic done to allow it.

Note oil pressure reading with multi viscosity namely 5w20. Start up at 65° F oil pressure 32psi, fluctuated to 65 at idle. This occurred until engine warmed up. Using a thicker oil should increase pressure on both sides of spectrum. If the oil is doing what the engine requires for operation, there is no need to run higher than required viscosity.

If your engine is loud from lifter noise it is possible internal issues from left over sand or engine castings that have effected oiling. There is info on the net about v6 issues... though they are rare.

When I hear of references to Bob the oil guy... I want to run. There is a site for reference on oils of most all manufacturers. It's an engineers analysis with tonnes of info, if you are willing to read.

Originally Jeep specified 5w-30, same clearances. So that’s put to bed. As the mileage increases, so does the likelihood of rocker failure. Then those needle bearings stop rotating, when they don’t rotate any longer, the roller stops turning, when that stops turning, you have worse than a flat tappet cam due to less surface area. IF you have metal to metal contact, where viscosity is the first and most important line of defense, the anti wear additives that have created a sacrificial layer with a balanced formulation so it doesn’t slough off, is your second line of defense against metal to metal contact. Then there’s the other points of failure that are less forgiving than rod and main bearings. Those aren’t the problem at all unless there’s a cacophony of bottom end failures I’ve missed over the years. It’s also components like timing chain links where you also want a boundary layer created by viscosity and backed up by anti wear additives. Whether you agree or not, to what sounds like completely shutting down and dismissing conversations on the BITOG forum seems closed minded.

Years back, you could have two to three viscosities recommended for the same engine for the same clearances but different operating temps and uses.
If you start with the original recommended viscosity of 5w-30, which I’ve never seen disputed, if you stay with a winter rating of 5w, you’re fine. IF the higher than oil temp, high friction points like the needle bearings in the rockers that eventually fail end up operating at a lower temp…with the VI package, it won’t ever reach the equivalent of a 40 weight base at say, the 150° C HTHS spec, so again, you’re fine. BUT if it does and even exceeds that temp, you’re still better off than having a 30 weight. That’s not even addressing the natural breakdown of oil over the oil change interval. A particular oil may barely even be a 20 weight equivalent when new, then throw the recommended oil change perceptions by many out there, and they assume they’re engine is fully protected for the life of that interval.

Bottom line, to each their own. Run what you like.

Based on personal engine building expertise and the greater experience of those I surrounded myself with, the use case can change what the best option is. Throw in an outlier like manufacturing tolerances like what may be happening with the 3.6 rocker needle bearings, thus it seems kind of random, it might not be wrong to assume the worst case scenario.

As to noise, there is a point where when it’s excessive, ”possibly” indicating slight excessive clearance, going to a higher viscosity can buy time. Good high mileage formulations address this with a bit more viscosity at op temp, better quality base oil, and/or more anti wear additives for that safety net in the event of metal to metal contact.

 

[YBABRAT]

Originally Jeep specified 5w-30, same clearances. So that’s put to bed. As the mileage increases, so does the likelihood of rocker failure. Then those needle bearings stop rotating, when they don’t rotate any longer, the roller stops turning, when that stops turning, you have worse than a flat tappet cam due to less surface area. IF you have metal to metal contact, where viscosity is the first and most important line of defense, the anti wear additives that have created a sacrificial layer with a balanced formulation so it doesn’t slough off, is your second line of defense against metal to metal contact. Then there’s the other points of failure that are less forgiving than rod and main bearings. Those aren’t the problem at all unless there’s a cacophony of bottom end failures I’ve missed over the years. It’s also components like timing chain links where you also want a boundary layer created by viscosity and backed up by anti wear additives. Whether you agree or not, to what sounds like completely shutting down and dismissing conversations on the BITOG forum seems closed minded.

Years back, you could have two to three viscosities recommended for the same engine for the same clearances but different operating temps and uses.
If you start with the original recommended viscosity of 5w-30, which I’ve never seen disputed, if you stay with a winter rating of 5w, you’re fine. IF the higher than oil temp, high friction points like the needle bearings in the rockers that eventually fail end up operating at a lower temp…with the VI package, it won’t ever reach the equivalent of a 40 weight base at say, the 150° C HTHS spec, so again, you’re fine. BUT if it does and even exceeds that temp, you’re still better off than having a 30 weight. That’s not even addressing the natural breakdown of oil over the oil change interval. A particular oil may barely even be a 20 weight equivalent when new, then throw the recommended oil change perceptions by many out there, and they assume they’re engine is fully protected for the life of that interval.

Bottom line, to each their own. Run what you like.

Based on personal engine building expertise and the greater experience of those I surrounded myself with, the use case can change what the best option is. Throw in an outlier like manufacturing tolerances like what may be happening with the 3.6 rocker needle bearings, thus it seems kind of random, it might not be wrong to assume the worst case scenario.

As to noise, there is a point where when it’s excessive, ”possibly” indicating slight excessive clearance, going to a higher viscosity can buy time. good High mileage formulations address this with a bit more viscosity at op temp, better quality base oil, and/or more anti wear additives for that safety net in the event of metal to metal contact.

Ok... but, back in 2009 a motor company used a blend oil rated at 5w20. They did not change any specs in engine design until 2014. In late 2011, they changed the oil specs under tsm to all engines made between 2007 on up to use 0w20 full Synthetic. Even though the engines and oil caps on them previously used 5w20 the service guys would use 0w20 full synthetic for maintenance. Did they notify customer other than adding extra cost for synthetic... no. Rocker arms being defective is one thing but to push high viscosity when not required is a bandaid. Replace them noisy rockers.

 

[AZJeepGuy]

Just make sure the spec matches. All of the major brands are good. And a 2nd for getting a Fumoto drain valve. 15 minutes to change the oil. Ok, an hour because I get sidetracked in the garage...

 

[Odyssey USA]

Ok... but, back in 2009 a motor company used a blend oil rated at 5w20. They did not change any specs in engine design until 2014. In late 2011, they changed the oil specs under tsm to all engines made between 2007 on up to use 0w20 full Synthetic. Even though the engines and oil caps on them previously used 5w20 the service guys would use 0w20 full synthetic for maintenance. Did they notify customer other than adding extra cost for synthetic... no. Rocker arms being defective is one thing but to push high viscosity when not required is a bandaid. Replace them noisy rockers.

I don’t follow when we’re comparing full syn to full syn and the failures still occur.

Edit: They spec’d a J300 5w-30 viscosity. Syn or not, the viscosity is still the same today in regards to clearances.

 

[Odyssey USA]

Just make sure the spec matches. All of the major brands are good. And a 2nd for getting a Fumoto drain valve. 15 minutes to change the oil. Ok, an hour because I get sidetracked in the garage...

A magnet isn’t a bad idea either as that’s going to go through the vane style oil pump we have these days.

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