Do Rubicons Really Have Better Resale Value?

[ThirtyOne]

Thanks. That's interesting.

Not sure if this is what you meant to imply but resale needs to be looked at as a percentage of initial MSRP, not just the actual price. So a Rubicon should have a higher resale value but it is also was at a higher cost. So to assess resale you have to use the percentage.

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[smithrd65]

Resale value is also based on location

 

[Peanut Butter]

Nice chart and interesting math.

1st, something is off. The average consumer will not pay 100% of the price of a 3 year old vehicle with miles and wear; even with a tax play in high taxed areas. Especially with an identical (i.e. not limited edition) vehicle sitting on a lot somewhere. Math removed, lets add a little common sense.

If a Sport has added a lift/wheels and tires, is it equally credited across the models. I would bet more Sports upgrade wheels and tires than the Rubis and Saharas. Obviously conjecture.

Two, I think you're missing the point about just getting a 'Rubi and you'll be better in resale.'

This chart uses JKs, so I built a sport S and added everything that is missing that a Rubicon comes standard... Best I could.
i.e. a Sport S with 3.73 gears, bigger tires, ect.. It came out to $35,740. I didn't use the Sport (non S) because I couldn't add enough for a reasonable comparison.

A base Rubi is listed at $37,445.

That's a $1,705 price difference in 'comparable' models.

In a JL, if you're going to add all of the options that come standard in a Rubi, you might as well pay $2,000 more and get the upgraded axles, fenders, lockers, 4:10 gears, bigger wheels and tires, Rubicon badging, hood, sway bar disconnect ect...

At the end of three years, the base Rubicon will be worth $1,705 more than a Sport or Sport S. Which i believe is @tatarin's point. This it typically the reference to "just get a Rubicon, you'll get your money back when you sell."

Percentage of resale, 5 year cost of ownership, and cost of lending FCA $1705 dollars until you sell you jeep is irrelevant if you're buying a new vehicle. If you're in position to buy a $35k new vehicle you're not concerned about a couple of cents a mile difference... Though i do enjoy the discussion and math.

Comparing a base Wrangler to a Rubicon is rarely the discussion. If you're going to keep a Sport or Sport S completely stock, you'll be just fine. And, you shouldn't spend the extra $7K. If you're going to lightly modify it, you should give serious consideration to a Rubicon. If you're going to load-up a Sport S, I 'believe' a 'base' Rubicon is a no-brainer.

 

[ThirtyOne]

Nice chart and interesting math.

1st, something is off. The average consumer will not pay 100% of the price of a 3 year old vehicle with miles and wear; even with a tax play in high taxed areas. Especially with an identical (i.e. not limited edition) vehicle sitting on a lot somewhere. Math removed, lets add a little common sense.

If a Sport has added a lift/wheels and tires, is it equally credited across the models. I would bet more Sports upgrade wheels and tires than the Rubis and Saharas. Obviously conjecture.

Two, I think you're missing the point about just getting a 'Rubi and you'll be better in resale.'

This chart uses JKs, so I built a sport S and added everything that is missing that a Rubicon comes standard... Best I could.
i.e. a Sport S with 3.73 gears, bigger tires, ect.. It came out to $35,740. I didn't use the Sport (non S) because I couldn't add enough for a reasonable comparison.

A base Rubi is listed at $37,445.

That's a $1,705 price difference in 'comparable' models.

In a JL, if you're going to add all of the options that come standard in a Rubi, you might as well pay $2,000 more and get the upgraded axles, fenders, lockers, 4:10 gears, bigger wheels and tires, Rubicon badging, hood, sway bar disconnect ect...

At the end of three years, the base Rubicon will be worth $1,705 more than a Sport or Sport S. Which i believe is @tatarin's point. This it typically the reference to "just get a Rubicon, you'll get your money back when you sell."

Percentage of resale, 5 year cost of ownership, and cost of lending FCA $1705 dollars until you sell you jeep is irrelevant if you're buying a new vehicle. If you're in position to buy a $35k new vehicle you're not concerned about a couple of cents a mile difference... Though i do enjoy the discussion and math.

Comparing a base Wrangler to a Rubicon is rarely the discussion. If you're going to keep a Sport or Sport S completely stock, you'll be just fine. And, you shouldn't spend the extra $7K. If you're going to lightly modify it, you should give serious consideration to a Rubicon. If you're going to load-up a Sport S, I 'believe' a 'base' Rubicon is a no-brainer.

Good post, but I don't buy your argument at all. That is a big leap to basically say at the end of the day people put the same money into a Sport as a Rubicon.

Bottom line - Sports hold their value better than Rubicon. It's not an opinion. Lease residuals say the same thing.

Lots of great reasons to buy a Rubicon. Resale just isn't one of them. Why is it so hard for everyone to accept that and just move on?

 

[Peanut Butter]

Good post, but I don't buy your argument at all. That is a big leap to basically say at the end of the day people put the same money into a Sport as a Rubicon.

Bottom line - Sports hold their value better than Rubicon. It's not an opinion. Lease residuals say the same thing.

Lots of great reasons to buy a Rubicon. Resale just isn't one of them. Why is it so hard for everyone to accept that and just move on?

That's not what I said or implied. let me paraphrase. A typical buyer will not purchase a used 3 year old jeep for the same or more money than they could purchase a new Jeep. This is especially true in a perfectly supplied or over supplied market (ie not limited edition speciality cars, rare coins, ivory widgets). In central Africa, a quality used Jeep, available today, may command a premium over a new Jeep that will take weeks or months to get there....all other thing equal and assuming greater demand than supply. Not in America, and not in a major city with multiple dealers. I reject the data at face value.

For example, if you just price a 3 year old JKU Sport KBB's private price is $28,704. Jeep's 2018 MSRP is $26,998. No options were added to either. According to KBB I should purchase a 2018 Sport S today so that I can make 6% as a return on my money. I've done worse in the stock market.

According to KBB a 2015 Rubicon should sell for $34,310. Jeep's 2018 MSRP is $33,645. That's only a 2% return over three years. Clearly the Rubicon is not as good as an 'investment.' But it is still better than leaving the money in my savings account. Maybe I'll run this by my financial advisor. Maybe.

My second point was that if you're going to load a Sport or S you should consider a Rubicon. It is more money. But you'll get the difference between the two back. Think of it this way. A sport holds a 100% of its value. (Assuming a loaded Sport holds 100%) And, a Rubicon hold 97% of its value. Assume the optioned difference is $1,700. It'll cost you $51 over 3 years to own the Rubicon vs a loaded Sport. Hence the "you should get a Rubicon" argument. Agreed that the term 'residual value is better' is incorrect. It is especially incorrect according to the unicorn math in the spreadsheet. Which I reject, remember.

I was not implying that a Sport holds a higher percentage of retail value compared to a Rubicon. I was stating that you might as well since you'll get your money back when you sell it. Or, everything except $51... I will probably spend more than $51 at the bar tonight to make me pee too much, make my waste line larger and give myself a headache in the morning... What I do know is that I'll be the coolest kid at the bar driving my Rubicon (not home, of course)!

Fun exercise.

 

[ThirtyOne]

That's not what I said or implied. let me paraphrase. A typical buyer will not purchase a used 3 year old jeep for the same or more money than they could purchase a new Jeep. This is especially true in a perfectly supplied or over supplied market (ie not limited edition speciality cars, rare coins, ivory widgets). In central Africa, a quality used Jeep, available today, may command a premium over a new Jeep that will take weeks or months to get there....all other thing equal and assuming greater demand than supply. Not in America, and not in a major city with multiple dealers. I reject the data at face value.

For example, if you just price a 3 year old JKU Sport KBB's private price is $28,704. Jeep's 2018 MSRP is $26,998. No options were added to either. According to KBB I should purchase a 2018 Sport S today so that I can make 6% as a return on my money. I've done worse in the stock market.

According to KBB a 2015 Rubicon should sell for $34,310. Jeep's 2018 MSRP is $33,645. That's only a 2% return over three years. Clearly the Rubicon is not as good as an 'investment.' But it is still better than leaving the money in my savings account. Maybe I'll run this by my financial advisor. Maybe.

My second point was that if you're going to load a Sport or S you should consider a Rubicon. It is more money. But you'll get the difference between the two back. Think of it this way. A sport holds a 100% of its value. (Assuming a loaded Sport holds 100%) And, a Rubicon hold 97% of its value. Assume the optioned difference is $1,700. It'll cost you $51 over 3 years to own the Rubicon vs a loaded Sport. Hence the "you should get a Rubicon" argument. Agreed that the term 'residual value is better' is incorrect. It is especially incorrect according to the unicorn math in the spreadsheet. Which I reject, remember.

I was not implying that a Sport holds a higher percentage of retail value compared to a Rubicon. I was stating that you might as well since you'll get your money back when you sell it. Or, everything except $51... I will probably spend more than $51 at the bar tonight to make me pee too much, make my waste line larger and give myself a headache in the morning... What I do know is that I'll be the coolest kid at the bar driving my Rubicon (not home, of course)!

Fun exercise.

I think we fundamentally agree. The KBB data is questionable. But the relative value of one model to the other is probably valid and it is borne out by other data like lease residuals. So maybe don't buy the values in the tables but buy the message.

And yes if you are going to spend the same amount you should get the Rubicon. And in that case the Rubicon may get a higher price than the Sport after 3 years.

But on average a Sport is going to have higher resale than a Rubicon because used buyers are looking for lower cost.

 

[Peanut Butter]

"The KBB data is questionable. But the relative value of one model to the other is probably valid and it is borne out by other data like lease residuals. So maybe don't buy the values in the tables but buy the message."

'There are two kinds of people in the world: those who can extrapolate from incomplete data"

 

[That One Guy]

Good post, but I don't buy your argument at all. That is a big leap to basically say at the end of the day people put the same money into a Sport as a Rubicon.

Bottom line - Sports hold their value better than Rubicon. It's not an opinion. Lease residuals say the same thing.

Lots of great reasons to buy a Rubicon. Resale just isn't one of them. Why is it so hard for everyone to accept that and just move on?

A lot of people have so much ego and pride on their purchase that they have an urge to tell others they're wrong.

You've made several fantastic posts in this thread. There's no getting around the fact that you can get a Sport S for several thousand dollars less than a Rubicon. If you don't want the extras, don't pay for them.

 

[That One Guy]

Well first of all it was more than the original cost of the vehicle not more than a brand new vehicle. Jeeps get more expensive every year.

Secondly i would take those numbers with a grain of salt.

But look at some used wranglers and you will see how high the resale is. Supply and demand.

They're high enough that at some point I accepted that the only way I can sensibly own a Jeep Wrangler is to purchase new. Test driving TJ's a few years ago, I couldn't convince myself that spending $8,000 on a vehicle with very similar tech to a $2,000 Jeep Cherokee was a good idea.

Buying new, I'l get good money out of any Wrangler once its run is up with me. I figure that even with a 2 door Sport stickering around 30k, it would take a long time for value to dip below 20k.

 

[kre62]

I just want to say that in no way, shape, or form did the OPs limited data set from KBB (a very unreliable source), using one zip code, and one model year "definitively prove" or even lightly suggest that Sports have better resale than Rubicon. This was not a scientific study, the proper controls were not used, and as another poster mentioned, the comparisons did not account for other factors that would make this a true comparison.

What we've learned is that people in the OPs zip code tend to pay more for 2015 Sports on a % of MSRP than Rubicons. The reasons for this can range from anywhere from people in NC hate the 2015 model year, to people in that zip code always build up sports because they are more hardcore there, to people only being able to afford the lower price point to...you get the point.

This is an interesting data point, but hardly comprehensive and far from conclusive. Stop trying to act like this definitively answers any question.

 

[ThirtyOne]

I just want to say that in no way, shape, or form did the OPs limited data set from KBB (a very unreliable source), using one zip code, and one model year "definitively prove" or even lightly suggest that Sports have better resale than Rubicon. This was not a scientific study, the proper controls were not used, and as another poster mentioned, the comparisons did not account for other factors that would make this a true comparison.

What we've learned is that people in the OPs zip code tend to pay more for 2015 Sports on a % of MSRP than Rubicons. The reasons for this can range from anywhere from people in NC hate the 2015 model year, to people in that zip code always build up sports because they are more hardcore there, to people only being able to afford the lower price point to...you get the point.

This is an interesting data point, but hardly comprehensive and far from conclusive. Stop trying to act like this definitively answers any question.

Lease residuals say the same thing. That is real liability for the bank. Do you think they don’t do their homework?

Rubicons are awesome. They don’t need better resale to justify them.

Which is good. Because they don’t have better resale value.

 

[kre62]

Lease residuals say the same thing. That is real liability for the bank. Do you think they don’t do their homework?

Rubicons are awesome. They don’t need better resale to justify them.

Which is good. Because they don’t have better resale value.

You don't know that. You have some anecdotal data points, thats it. Not conclusive.

 

[Carolina88]

This Sport vs Rubicon resale debate has jumped threads today -- impressive!

 

[That One Guy]

This Sport vs Rubicon resale debate has jumped threads today -- impressive!

That can happen with a poster who seems dedicated to convincing all that everyone should buy a Rubicon, no exceptions. To hell with all worldly concerns!

 

[ThirtyOne]

You don't know that. You have some anecdotal data points, thats it. Not conclusive.

Ok. Here is a table that shows the lease residuals from back in January (they have changed a little since but the relative difference between trim levels is the same):

A little hard to read, but these are the residuals by trim level.

Here is the source: Could someone check if the lease numbers have been released since its January?

So a little reminder on how lease residuals work. You, as the lessee, pay the amount between the selling price and the residual. When the lease is up the bank is left to pay off the rest. If the residual is too high, they are upside down and they lose money, which banks don't like to do.

Consistently for both 2-doors and 4-doors the lease residuals for Sports are higher than Rubicons.

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