Complete throttle dip

[Ten North Prez]

This is likely more of a good story then a diagnosis or solution to your issue as I think, as others have pointed out, this is likely TPS related but... Back in the day I had a G-body Pontiac that had almost the exact issues you're experiencing. Throttle cut out only on hard acceleration and it could not be duplicated unless under load. It took me a month to figure out but here's what happened... A piece of the catalytic converter had broken off in almost a perfect 3" square. Each time I hammered the throttle the piece would get lodged at the back of the converter trying to make its escape out the back. As soon as I left off, the piece falls back into the converter, engine runs just fine. The piece was heavy enough the only the sudden burst of a kickdown was enough to block the exhaust and cause the issue. Other then that the thing ran perfect.
Again, I DO NOT expect this is your issue but the symptoms are identical which made my mind go there when I read your description. Sorry I couldn't be more of a help.

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[Jturn112]

Whaler, awesome information, wonder if this is covered by warranty (only 18,000 miles). Oh ride around for 15 minutes with me, I can recreate the issue, and maybe induce a small panic attack.

Wrangler man, please don't make me disassemble the catalytic converter and exhaust system. Lot of past experience in different modified vehicles and absolutely sounds very similar to recreating my issue.

 

[58Willys]

It may be your traction control kicking in. Turn off traction control, and if that cures it you have your answer.

 

[Jturn112]

It may be your traction control kicking in. Turn off traction control, and if that cures it you have your answer.

I'll give anything a shot, but my traction control kicks in while in snow and ice quite a bit. This is more violent and sudden than that.

 

[BDinTX]

Did you ever check that wiring harness? It's supposed to run up the engine compartment under the passenger footwell and behind a heat shield. There were reports of it being OVER the heat shield and contacting the exhaust. If I remember correctly, that was the cause of the sudden shutdown that @Whaler27 mentioned.

 

[Dailydrivenwrangler]

Before taking it into the dealer I like to troubleshoot all possibilities first. Try popping it in manual mode and see if it does the same thing while holding it in that gear. Then drop a gear and try the same thing.
See if it’s an RPM issue, a transmission communication with the engine issue, etc.

 

[Jturn112]

I'll check the wiring issue when i get off work. and try the manual mode and see if i can recreate it that way.

Thanks everyone for all the input, better experience on JLwrangler forums than i ever could have expected. I'm grateful.

 

[Wrangler man]

This may seem like a long shot, and it may be, but I’d check to make sure all of your fuses are secure and both batteries are in good shape. We have seen every manner of sporadic system failure attributable to one of these two things. For me, it’s the scariest feature of new jeeps.




Same advice as above. Apparently, the failure you are experiencing is a sporadic one that isn’t producing a code. With the exception of the performance/racing folks, the days of smart, vehicle-savvy mechanics are mostly behind us. Dealerships employ “technicians” who plug into your jeep to read codes and follow dictated steps. Iff there are no codes, and the failure can’t be reproduced on a drive around the block, you‘re S-O-L..

A year or two ago one of the forum members was exiting the highway at night when his jeep shut off completely and went black — no lights, no power anything, including power steering and brakes. It was all he could do to get it stopped. I can’t remember how that resolved — but this kind of crap is downright dangerous, and it often produces nothing but a shoulder shrug from the dealers.

I love the new brakes, power, airbags, and transmissions in the newer Jeeps but this kind of stuff never happened in my CJs or TJs, and when I had problems with them they could be fixed.

Very well put! Exact to the point. 100% factual.
"With the exception of the performance/racing folks, the days of smart, vehicle-savvy mechanics are mostly behind us. Dealerships employ “technicians” who plug into your jeep to read codes and follow dictated steps. Iff there are no codes, and the failure can’t be reproduced on a drive around the block, you‘re S-O-L.."
Bring back linkage I love the new 8-speed Mercedes transmission but miss old school linkage. This includes throttle linkage since they removed those mechanical solid true performers we've had numerous problems relying on the electronics. One of my greatest gripes of these JL's is, with the doors off I could shift and maneuver Anytime Anyplace without interruption. With doors on while backing up or pulling slightly forward while on the trail/DRWY cracking the door to see the ground causes the Jeep suddenly slam into Park. And don't get me started on the advanced Safety system. If we don't have enough distractions the last thing we need are beeps and flashing lights as annoying distracting reminders that we MAY be driving in a manner that could cause an accident. That's is every bit helpful as the vaccination. That very quickly went from WILL to MAY, to NOT! Not sure about your area but every Jeep dealership I see lately that has Wranglers 90% of them on the lot are the 4XE's. (Remember best scenario 30 Miles on all electric mode). Does anyone ever stop to think 10 years from now what those pieces of crap will not be worth. I'll take a 10-year-old Wrangler with a 10-year-old battery and a four-banger please, Yea right.

 

[Jturn112]

So far. I'm going to check that wiring harness on passenger side first, use manual mode and try to recreate the issue. and maybe check the fuel filter.

i made a stealership appointment too for Monday, I'm sure if its a throttle position sensor they can get or already have the part in stock, faster than i can order it. looks fairly simple to replace, but with 18,000 miles... feels like this shouldn't be my knuckles repairing this problem.

 

[ALeeL]

Same advice as above. Apparently, the failure you are experiencing is a sporadic one that isn’t producing a code. With the exception of the performance/racing folks, the days of smart, vehicle-savvy mechanics are mostly behind us. Dealerships employ “technicians” who plug into your jeep to read codes and follow dictated steps. Iff there are no codes, and the failure can’t be reproduced on a drive around the block, you‘re S-O-L..

A lot of that has to do with the way the technician gets paid. I work for a company that has over 120 heavy duty truck dealerships nationwide. Most of these technicians are on flag rate and are not hourly. That means they get paid for how many hours it takes to complete the job according to a book, not how long it actually takes them. If it takes them 2 hours to complete a job that is 4 in the books, then they get paid for 4. Adversely, if it takes him 6 hours to do the same job, he is still only getting paid 4. It is done this way so we can properly quote jobs before hand and it keeps places honest since they all go buy the same books.

The problem with this type of system is when something needs to be diagnosed especially when it is under warranty. Warranty generally pays less hours than book rate and it hardly ever pays for diagnosis. For example, if the job above for 4 hours was warranty, then the tech would likely only get paid for 3. If he had to diagnose the issue before hand, then likely did not get paid for that time. This is why they try not to take that long diagnosing an issue. Nobody wants to pay for it.

When I take something in for warranty and it might need to be diagnosed, I generally tell them that I will pay up to an hour or thirty minutes for them to diagnose the issue because I understand how the system works. Yes, it sucks having to pay for something that is warranty, however, they don't know that it is warranty if they cannot find the problem. Doing this has kept me from having to go back to the dealership several times like a friend of mine did because he refused to pay for diag time. I told him that his personal hourly rate must be worth beans because the small amount that I have to pay for them to do it right once was well worth me from having to bring it back on my own time multiple times.

 

[Jturn112]

ALeeL you sir might be a genius. if I can't run the problem down in the next day or 2 I will definitely take that approach, little extra $ cant hurt to get it done once and right. As much as I dislike incentivizing my employees, when its my time and effort it saves, I'm okay with it.

 

[ChuckQue]

A lot of that has to do with the way the technician gets paid. I work for a company that has over 120 heavy duty truck dealerships nationwide. Most of these technicians are on flag rate and are not hourly. That means they get paid for how many hours it takes to complete the job according to a book, not how long it actually takes them. If it takes them 2 hours to complete a job that is 4 in the books, then they get\ paid for 4. Adversely, if it takes him 6 hours to do the same job, he is still only getting paid 4. It is done this way so we can properly quote jobs before hand and it keeps places honest since they all go buy the same books.

The problem with this type of system is when something needs to be diagnosed especially when it is under warranty. Warranty generally pays less hours than book rate and it hardly ever pays for diagnosis. For example, if the job above for 4 hours was warranty, then the tech would likely only get paid for 3. If he had to diagnose the issue before hand, then likely did not get for that time. This is why they try not to take that long diagnosing an issue. Nobody wants to pay for it.

When I take something in for warranty and it might need to be diagnosed, I generally tell them that I will pay up to an hour or thirty minutes for them to diagnose the issue because I understand how the system works. Yes, it sucks having to pay for something that is warranty, however, they don't know that it is warranty if they cannot find the problem. Doing this has kept me from having to go back to the dealership several times like a friend of mine did because he refused to pay for diag time. I told him that his personal hourly rate must be worth beans because the small amount that I have to pay for them to do it right once was well worth me from having to bring it back on my own time multiple times.

This is good advice and insight. Thanks for posting this!

 

[garykk]

You never mentioned if you changed the fuel filter. It’s supposed to be changed at 10k miles.

 

[azjl#3]

If they keep saying cannot duplicate, Get a data logging OBD reader device like ancel off amazon. I am not sure which one, I have the BMW one that cost about $200, but you can drive down the road get the car to hiccup and see what hiccupped.

And or do what Aleel says, specifically pay them to diagnose. I did this once on a factory/dealer alarm that kept going off at 3am.

 

[Whaler27]

A lot of that has to do with the way the technician gets paid. I work for a company that has over 120 heavy duty truck dealerships nationwide. Most of these technicians are on flag rate and are not hourly. That means they get paid for how many hours it takes to complete the job according to a book, not how long it actually takes them. If it takes them 2 hours to complete a job that is 4 in the books, then they get\ paid for 4. Adversely, if it takes him 6 hours to do the same job, he is still only getting paid 4. It is done this way so we can properly quote jobs before hand and it keeps places honest since they all go buy the same books.

The problem with this type of system is when something needs to be diagnosed especially when it is under warranty. Warranty generally pays less hours than book rate and it hardly ever pays for diagnosis. For example, if the job above for 4 hours was warranty, then the tech would likely only get paid for 3. If he had to diagnose the issue before hand, then likely did not get for that time. This is why they try not to take that long diagnosing an issue. Nobody wants to pay for it.

When I take something in for warranty and it might need to be diagnosed, I generally tell them that I will pay up to an hour or thirty minutes for them to diagnose the issue because I understand how the system works. Yes, it sucks having to pay for something that is warranty, however, they don't know that it is warranty if they cannot find the problem. Doing this has kept me from having to go back to the dealership several times like a friend of mine did because he refused to pay for diag time. I told him that his personal hourly rate must be worth beans because the small amount that I have to pay for them to do it right once was well worth me from having to bring it back on my own time multiple times.

That's explained very well, and I understand. Sadly, it translates to less capable service and a hard screwing for most customers -- because flat rates are set based on the newest, least capable "technicians" and then they're heavily padded -- like the $900 brake pad replacement quote we saw in a recent thread. I'm old, and I'm an unremarkable amateur, but I replaced the entire brake system on my Jeep in less than 8 hours, and that's with several challenges, including the wrong-sized fitting on two of the brake lines and a crappy vacuum assist for bleeding the lines.

I'll give two other examples:

1) Years ago we bought a BMW 5-series sedan that came without the "Homelink" option, which we wanted to add. The dealer quoted the part cost plus one hour of labor to install it. I was pretty sure the wiring harness would be in place, so I decided to do the installation myself.

I knew where the Homelink option was usually installed, so I examined the area. Sure enough, there was a small panel in the foam-backed headliner with a perforated margin, so I spent a couple minutes gently poking through the perforations with a screw driver. When the foam panel came out the wiring was handy, so I snapped the pigtail into the Homelink piece, which snapped neatly into the hole in the headliner. Done. I was initially worried about screwing up the headliner, so I went very slowly. Even so, from start to finish the job took me less than five minutes. Knowing what I know now, I could easily install ten of these per hour with ample time for a long coffee break and a head-call in the middle.

2) When I was in school my roommate did body and paint work for a business that restored high-end German cars. He was in his late twenties, but during high school he'd learned bodywork apprenticing under an old guy who still used lead filler (instead of "Bondo"). He did fantastic concourse-quality work, and he made very good money, because he always beat the "flat rate", often by a factor of two to three times, or more. He was getting paid for 15 to 20 hours of work for his 8 or 10 hour days. It was great for him and the business he worked for, but it was a hard screwing for the customer. My roommate told me that even a lazy, mediocre body and paint guy would typically be beating the flat rate within six months or a year of finishing the body and paint program at the community college.

So we're not really paying a "$150 per hour" shop rate. We're often paying more like $300 to $400 per hour worked -- and sometimes closer to $1,000 per hour worked (Homelink example).

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