Cold climate = no go

[wranglerbro]

Look at response #4 and #23. Disingenuous responses ?

I was referring to your posts, not MLLCB42's. Try using facts instead of assumptions and hearsay before you create a thread to denigrate the 4XE. Clearly this vehicle isn't for you.

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[mllcb42]

No , not your responses

Not sure how that could be when you specifically cited my posts by number.

 

[Slaw32]

Not sure how that could be when you specifically cited my posts by number.

I referred to your posts because you were referring to vehicle not working well In what some people refer to as extreme cold weather and the 4xe having issues in that range . -22 f isn't uncommon in northern climates . There have been winters up here that - 22 is the daytime high . You posted that the vehicle more than likely WOULD NOT start in these conditions . You seem to know that the vehicle most likely will have starting problems if not plugged in . That may be something you can do at home , but many people won't be able to if at work working an 8 or a 12 hour shift . That is why I referred to your posts .
This vehicle is definitely not for me , or anyone that has to use their vehicle in northern winter conditions .
I took exception to wranglerbro and his comment that I was being disingenuous , and was using responses to point out that this vehicle has to be plugged in to get it to start , not everyone has access to that at work . No apologies extended , just trying to make people aware of the vehicles limitations .

 

[mllcb42]

ou posted that the vehicle more than likely WOULD NOT start in these conditions .

Again, the vehicle will not start, by design, if the battery pack cold soaks to below -22F, after exhausting all of its power trying to maintain temperature.

That is a significantly different statement than the vehicle will not start if it's -22F out.

Yes, if you are in a corner case where you need to deplete the battery fully and then leave it for long periods of time in very cold weather, a phev isn't the right tool for the job. Similarly, most other vehicles (phev and non-phev) will not work in that situation.

Extending that very specific corner case (that is far more than just regional dependent, so it's not just a case of not working in northern winter conditions) to "it won't work for anyone if it gets below freezing" is the issue.

If it's not the right tool for you, that's fine. It isn't the right tool for every job, but let's be realistic about what the actual limitations are.

The same should be said for most of the people reporting issues in the cold, that usually fall into two categories:

1. The vehicle is stuck in fuel/oil refresh mode. This appears to simply be a result of them not getting the oil hot enough to satisfy the computer
2. The ICE turning on/electric mode not being available initially. This appears to simply be a misunderstanding of how the phev system works and the preconditioning that the motor must do to get everything up to temp in the cold

That isn't to say that 100% of the reported issues are not issues; I'm sure there are some that are. The vast majority of them seem to fall into the category of the vehicle not behaving how they think it should though.

 

[Slaw32]

Again, the vehicle will not start, by design, if the battery pack cold soaks to below -22F, after exhausting all of its power trying to maintain temperature.

That is a significantly different statement than the vehicle will not start if it's -22F out.

Yes, if you are in a corner case where you need to deplete the battery fully and then leave it for long periods of time in very cold weather, a phev isn't the right tool for the job. Similarly, most other vehicles (phev and non-phev) will not work in that situation.

Extending that very specific corner case (that is far more than just regional dependent, so it's not just a case of not working in northern winter conditions) to "it won't work for anyone if it gets below freezing" is the issue.

If it's not the right tool for you, that's fine. It isn't the right tool for every job, but let's be realistic about what the actual limitations are.

The same should be said for most of the people reporting issues in the cold, that usually fall into two categories:

1. The vehicle is stuck in fuel/oil refresh mode. This appears to simply be a result of them not getting the oil hot enough to satisfy the computer
2. The ICE turning on/electric mode not being available initially. This appears to simply be a misunderstanding of how the phev system works and the preconditioning that the motor must do to get everything up to temp in the cold

That isn't to say that 100% of the reported issues are not issues; I'm sure there are some that are. The vast majority of them seem to fall into the category of the vehicle not behaving how they think it should though.

Again, the vehicle will not start, by design, if the battery pack cold soaks to below -22F, after exhausting all of its power trying to maintain temperature.

That is a significantly different statement than the vehicle will not start if it's -22F out.

Yes, if you are in a corner case where you need to deplete the battery fully and then leave it for long periods of time in very cold weather, a phev isn't the right tool for the job. Similarly, most other vehicles (phev and non-phev) will not work in that situation.

Extending that very specific corner case (that is far more than just regional dependent, so it's not just a case of not working in northern winter conditions) to "it won't work for anyone if it gets below freezing" is the issue.

If it's not the right tool for you, that's fine. It isn't the right tool for every job, but let's be realistic about what the actual limitations are.

The same should be said for most of the people reporting issues in the cold, that usually fall into two categories:

1. The vehicle is stuck in fuel/oil refresh mode. This appears to simply be a result of them not getting the oil hot enough to satisfy the computer
2. The ICE turning on/electric mode not being available initially. This appears to simply be a misunderstanding of how the phev system works and the preconditioning that the motor must do to get everything up to temp in the cold

That isn't to say that 100% of the reported issues are not issues; I'm sure there are some that are. The vast majority of them seem to fall into the category of the vehicle not behaving how they think it should though.

If you find yourself in the cold conditions and vehicle will not start can you jump start like a traditional vehicle , or will you have to have it towed to a climate controlled area to get it to warm up to get it to start ?
-22 f are not 'corner conditions ' in this area of the country .

 

[mllcb42]

-22 f are not 'corner conditions ' in this area of the country .

Say it again with me:

-22F outside conditions and -22F cold soaked battery after exhausting the entire battery pack are not the same thing

 

[mllcb42]

If you find yourself in the cold conditions and vehicle will not start can you jump start like a traditional vehicle , or will you have to have it towed to a climate controlled area to get it to warm up to get it to start ?

If the issue is a dead 12v battery, you can jump start it.

If the issue is a cold soaked main battery, it would likely need to be plugged in. Climate controlled area not necessary, but electricity would be.

One could probably explore the use of an external battery pack (think 1kw power station type thing often used in job sites for charging tools, etc) as a mobile power source for getting the battery warm enough to start, although I don't know the minimum amount of charge that would be needed in that situation.


The main battery will use it's own power to keep it warm enough. If your use case is somewhere where you're going to be leaving it parked for 8-12 hours, it would probably be wise to drive the vehicle in e-save rather than electric only or hybrid mode to keep the state of charge high when parking. That'll keep the battery warm enough for quite some time. You can largely address the very cold weather issue here by driving the vehicle in the appropriate mode.

The starting issue comes into play if you have fully depleted the main battery, either through driving or by leaving it for an extended period of time in very cold conditions. If you knew you were going to be leaving it for overnight in very cold conditions where you couldn't plug in, it'd probably be worth first doing some experiments to see how long the battery takes to run down simply keeping itself warm. I don't know what the answer to that is, but I suspect it is significantly longer than just overnight.

 

[Slaw32]

If the issue is a dead 12v battery, you can jump start it.

If the issue is a cold soaked main battery, it would likely need to be plugged in. Climate controlled area no necessary, but electricity would be.

One could probably explore the use of an external battery pack (think 1kw power station type thing often used in job sites for charging tools, etc) as a mobile power source for getting the battery warm enough to start, although I don't know the minimum amount of charge that would be needed in that situation.
[/QUOTE.

If the issue is a dead 12v battery, you can jump start it.

If the issue is a cold soaked main battery, it would likely need to be plugged in. Climate controlled area not necessary, but electricity would be.

One could probably explore the use of an external battery pack (think 1kw power station type thing often used in job sites for charging tools, etc) as a mobile power source for getting the battery warm enough to start, although I don't know the minimum amount of charge that would be needed in that situation.


The main battery will use it's own power to keep it warm enough. If your use case is somewhere where you're going to be leaving it parked for 8-12 hours, it would probably be wise to drive the vehicle in e-save rather than electric only or hybrid mode to keep the state of charge high when parking. That'll keep the battery warm enough for quite some time. You can largely address the very cold weather issue here by driving the vehicle in the appropriate mode.

The starting issue comes into play if you have fully depleted the main battery, either through driving or by leaving it for an extended period of time in very cold conditions. If you knew you were going to be leaving it for overnight in very cold conditions where you couldn't plug in, it'd probably be worth first doing some experiments to see how long the battery takes to run down simply keeping itself warm. I don't know what the answer to that is, but I suspect it is significantly longer than just overnight.

Thank you , point made . If you park the 4xe outside for extended periods in what some call extreme cold the vehicle will not start and will have to be towed to a heated area , or to an area where a electric plug in is available , or you will need a external fossil fueled generator to get it to start or some kind of external battery pack . Not practical in northern climate .

 

[Slaw32]

[

If the issue is a dead 12v battery, you can jump start it.

If the issue is a cold soaked main battery, it would likely need to be plugged in. Climate controlled area not necessary, but electricity would be.

One could probably explore the use of an external battery pack (think 1kw power station type thing often used in job sites for charging tools, etc) as a mobile power source for getting the battery warm enough to start, although I don't know the minimum amount of charge that would be needed in that situation.


The main battery will use it's own power to keep it warm enough. If your use case is somewhere where you're going to be leaving it parked for 8-12 hours, it would probably be wise to drive the vehicle in e-save rather than electric only or hybrid mode to keep the state of charge high when parking. That'll keep the battery warm enough for quite some time. You can largely address the very cold weather issue here by driving the vehicle in the appropriate mode.

The starting issue comes into play if you have fully depleted the main battery, either through driving or by leaving it for an extended period of time in very cold conditions. If you knew you were going to be leaving it for overnight in very cold conditions where you couldn't plug in, it'd probably be worth first doing some experiments to see how long the battery takes to run down simply keeping itself warm. I don't know what the answer to that is, but I suspect it is significantly longer than just overnight.

Thank you , point made . If have to park this vehicle outside and main battery is outside of posted conditions it will not start . Even with a jump . You will have to have vehicle towed to where electricity is available , or use an external battery pack or fossil fueled generator to get it to start .

If the issue is a dead 12v battery, you can jump start it.

If the issue is a cold soaked main battery, it would likely need to be plugged in. Climate controlled area not necessary, but electricity would be.

One could probably explore the use of an external battery pack (think 1kw power station type thing often used in job sites for charging tools, etc) as a mobile power source for getting the battery warm enough to start, although I don't know the minimum amount of charge that would be needed in that situation.


The main battery will use it's own power to keep it warm enough. If your use case is somewhere where you're going to be leaving it parked for 8-12 hours, it would probably be wise to drive the vehicle in e-save rather than electric only or hybrid mode to keep the state of charge high when parking. That'll keep the battery warm enough for quite some time. You can largely address the very cold weather issue here by driving the vehicle in the appropriate mode.

The starting issue comes into play if you have fully depleted the main battery, either through driving or by leaving it for an extended period of time in very cold conditions. If you knew you were going to be leaving it for overnight in very cold conditions where you couldn't plug in, it'd probably be worth first doing some experiments to see how long the battery takes to run down simply keeping itself warm. I don't know what the answer to that is, but I suspect it is significantly longer than just overnight.

 

[mllcb42]

Thank you , point made . If have to park this vehicle outside and main battery is outside of posted conditions it will not start . Even with a jump . You will have to have vehicle towed to where electricity is available , or use an external battery pack or fossil fueled generator to get it to start . Not practical in northern climate .

I don't agree with your "not practical in a northern climate" assertion here.

I could agree with "not practical in a northern climate if you have to leave you vehicle for a significant period of time away from an electricity source in very cold conditions".

Having to park over night without a plug doesn't fall into that category.

Having to park without moving without a plug for a week or two certainly might.

 

[Slaw32]

To all that own this vehicle In the areas that can have very cold temps for extended periods of time . Good luck , I wish you well . Winter hasn't set in yet , but it will .

 

[west tex]

The winter keeps most of the riff raff out . It does tend to thin out that herd . If it doesn't kill you it will make you stronger .

Count me as a card carrying member of the riff-raff. Born and raised in the upper Midwest and learned to drive on ice and snow. Came to Texas on a job transfer over 30 years ago. That first winter, 60 degrees and blue skies in January convinced me to stay.

But I'm still not gonna get a 4xe.

 

[mllcb42]

To all that own this vehicle In the areas that can have very cold temps for extended periods of time .

Perhaps a more useful conversation to be had is "I was looking at one of these and live in a cold area, how do these actually behave that is different than what I expected?"

 

[Slaw32]

Count me as a card carrying member of the riff-raff. Born and raised in the upper Midwest and learned to drive on ice and snow. Came to Texas on a job transfer over 30 years ago. That first winter, 60 degrees and blue skies in January convinced me to stay.

But I'm still not gonna get a 4xe.

Weren't the summers down there hard to get used to ? Seems people from the north have a hard time adjusting to the heat , kind of the same when people relocate here from the south adjusting to the cold . With modern fabrics and water proof options I can put more on to stay warm , but in the heat you can only take so much off .

 

[Slaw32]

Perhaps a more useful conversation to be had is "I was looking at one of these and live in a cold area, how do these actually behave that is different than what I expected?"

That is kinda how I started the thread . I was trying to educate myself using other people's real world experiences with this platform and was shocked that you will more than likely have to keep vehicle plugged in when normal winter happens . Some may think -22 is extremely cold . Up here and further north it isn't .

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