Auto transmission service?

[gsbrockman]

ZF is a big customer of ours. I am often in Germany at their plants on various projects. One of these is where the ZF transmissions are built for many of the OEM customers (FCA builds their own under license from ZF but many just OEM them from ZF). I am actually on my way to Germany next week for 12 days unless COVID regulations change and prevent the trip.

Off topic.....but can future RAM HD / Cummins truck owners expect to see the ZF PowerLine series behind their trucks? One article noted that it was good to 57,000 GVWR.

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[SouthCo]

Maybe someone should ask the dealer/manufacturer if the can make some magically lifetime oil, transfer case fluid, diff fluid, coolant and power steering fluid as well... LMAO.... No fluid last forever. Other manufacturers say lifetime transmission fluid as well but then why do they offer to change it at the dealership? My local Jeep dealership is pretty good and when I asked my service rep about it, she said it should be changed. And she wasn't just trying to make a sale as she also told me I had the initial free oil changes still available which I declined to have them do...

 

[blnewt]

ZF is a big customer of ours. I am often in Germany at their plants on various projects. One of these is where the ZF transmissions are built for many of the OEM customers (FCA builds their own under license from ZF but many just OEM them from ZF). I am actually on my way to Germany next week for 12 days unless COVID regulations change and prevent the trip.

Over Friday night beers I asked one of the lead technicians the question "How often should I change the transmission fluid on my Jeep?"

His answer:

You should check before the warranty has expired for dirty fluid. If dirty fluid get the transmission repaired before your warranty has expired.

If the fluid is clean you are good for 150,000km when you should check it again. As long as the fluid is clean you do not need to change it.

If the fluid is dirty it means a problem causing clutch wear and transmission needs to be diagnosed and serviced.

....

Take into account Europeans are much more environmentally aware which means fluids don't get replaced if not required - they get checked and replaced if required.

What constitutes "clean" fluid would be the question I'd have. From the FSM procedure for the fluid service it seems to be a pretty straightforward DIY.

John, If you are able to communicate w/ them, the next time would you mind asking if there's any downside to servicing the ZF ATF every 50k miles?

I plan to DIY the service when I hit 50k and I doubt when I drain out the pan I'd see clean fluid as per all my previous ATF service jobs. TBH I've never done a ZF, but have done Infiniti 7 spd AT w/ a "sealed" transmission, and the ATF was very dark but didn't have any burnt smell. The AT did shift crisper after the ATF service, that's for sure (it was done at 70k)

 

[oceanblue2019]

What constitutes "clean" fluid would be the question I'd have. From the FSM procedure for the fluid service it seems to be a pretty straightforward DIY.

John, If you are able to communicate w/ them, the next time would you mind asking if there's any downside to servicing the ZF ATF every 50k miles?

I plan to DIY the service when I hit 50k and I doubt when I drain out the pan I'd see clean fluid as per all my previous ATF service jobs. TBH I've never done a ZF, but have done Infiniti 7 spd AT w/ a "sealed" transmission, and the ATF was very dark but didn't have any burnt smell. The AT did shift crisper after the ATF service, that's for sure (it was done at 70k)

Hi Brad,

For clean fluid they just reference not dirty; so to me that would be not brown/black. You can also put a little fluid on your thumb and index finger and rub it - if it feels gritty it's dirty.

I also did ask and no problem changing fluid as long as correct fluid and proper procedure to ensure the transmission is full. But it also came with the comment that it will make no difference to operation or longevity and introduces a risk that it is not done correctly.

I do plan to add the PPE transmission pan at some point and obviously fluid would get changed then.

 

[blnewt]

Hi Brad,

For clean fluid they just reference not dirty; so to me that would be not brown/black. You can also put a little fluid on your thumb and index finger and rub it - if it feels gritty it's dirty.

I also did ask and no problem changing fluid as long as correct fluid and proper procedure to ensure the transmission is full. But it also came with the comment that it will make no difference to operation or longevity and introduces a risk that it is not done correctly.

I do plan to add the PPE transmission pan at some point and obviously fluid would get changed then.

I think when I hit 50k I'll first check the fluid level and see if I can get a decent sample of fluid to see if it's dark &/or gritty. It just seems odd to me that the various clips I've seen from those that have done this service always report how much sludge is built up on the pan magnets. It just seems that having those micro particles flowing through the ATF between the various close tolerance parts wouldn't decrease the life of these ZF ATs. I know a bungled job on the ATF service would probably be worse than just leaving it be, but it seems simple enough, and I've done a couple similar ATF jobs. I am hoping the Redline ATF is a good alternative ATF, but if once I hit 50k and there's any conflicting evidence there I'll run the Mopar/Lifegard fluid. I got a friend at the Mopar part counter so I can get it at a decent discount. And from what I've read just the drain & fill (not a complete fluid change) I'd only need like 5 quarts, so probably in the $100 range plus a new $30 filter.

 

[oceanblue2019]

I think when I hit 50k I'll first check the fluid level and see if I can get a decent sample of fluid to see if it's dark &/or gritty. It just seems odd to me that the various clips I've seen from those that have done this service always report how much sludge is built up on the pan magnets. It just seems that having those micro particles flowing through the ATF between the various close tolerance parts wouldn't decrease the life of these ZF ATs. I know a bungled job on the ATF service would probably be worse than just leaving it be, but it seems simple enough, and I've done a couple similar ATF jobs. I am hoping the Redline ATF is a good alternative ATF, but if once I hit 50k and there's any conflicting evidence there I'll run the Mopar/Lifegard fluid. I got a friend at the Mopar part counter so I can get it at a decent discount. And from what I've read just the drain & fill (not a complete fluid change) I'd only need like 5 quarts, so probably in the $100 range plus a new $30 filter.

Let me ask about the sludge specifically next week - and if you send me a link to one of the videos I will show it to them.

I plan on the PPE around 50k miles and it comes with a new filter. I plan to show them that link to the pan next week and see what they say as well.

 

[Compression-Ignition]

Off topic.....but can future RAM HD / Cummins truck owners expect to see the ZF PowerLine series behind their trucks? One article noted that it was good to 57,000 GVWR.

@oceanblue2019

I want the inside scoop! Is the ZF coming to the RAM HD line?!!!

 

[Plongson]

So how would you even add fluid? There is no dipstick...pump it in through some port? Better hope it never leaks either

 

[Mudduck]

Ive always serviced the heck out of my transmissions. The engine oil is at most 10k intervals on new cars. Just seems odd to have a “lifetime” trans fluid, when the trans is more sensitive to old/dirty fluid than a engine is, in most cases.

 

[gsbrockman]

So how would you even add fluid? There is no dipstick...pump it in through some port? Better hope it never leaks either

There’s a great .pdf file here....

https://www.giuliaforums.com/thread...e-transmission-fluid-level.46474/#post-795985

select gear1

 

[blnewt]

There’s a great .pdf file here....

https://www.giuliaforums.com/thread...e-transmission-fluid-level.46474/#post-795985

select gear1

Here's the ATF service FSM listed on the site here too~
https://www.jlwranglerforums.com/fo...nsmission-service-details.48248/#post-1092517

 

[oceanblue2019]

@oceanblue2019

I want the inside scoop! Is the ZF coming to the RAM HD line?!!!

The guys I work with will not know these sorts of details until it is almost publicly announced.

Aisin is also a customer and I believe the RAM uses a AS66/68/69 model.

 

[oceanblue2019]

So how would you even add fluid? There is no dipstick...pump it in through some port? Better hope it never leaks either

There is a fill plug on the right side near the top. You need a small pump to fill via it with transmission in the vehicle.

 

[gsbrockman]

The guys I work with will not know these sorts of details until it is almost publicly announced.

Aisin is also a customer and I believe the RAM uses a AS66/68/69 model.

The AISIN AS68RC was used in the Cab & Chassis trucks through 2012; the AISIN AS69RC replaced it in 2013, but also included coverage to the 3500 pickup side as well.

My 2014 RAM 3500 pickup had the AS69RC and it was flawless through trade in time at 362k miles. My current 2018 RAM 4500 with AS69RC is at 416k miles, and it, too, has been flawless, with regular servicing, and also experiencing some GCW’s up to 42,000 lbs.

 

[OllieChristopher]

I want the inside scoop! Is the ZF coming to the RAM HD line?!!!

The 6.4 will be getting an Allison and all other engines in the HD lineup are getting the ZF.

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