Adding an Aftermarket Amp(s)

[KellsiesJLUR]

Given that I don't know what I am looking for but th

Like sting said the bigger the magnet the more power it requires to move the voice coil through it. A bigger amp will be necessary to realize the full potential of your new speakers. You can measure the speakers at the terminals with a multi meter for resistance. Factory amps to tend to run with lower resistance so if you doubled the resistance with your new speakers you might be pulling half the load your amp is capable of and getting half the output. A new aftermarket amp is probably your best bet but if you measure your old speakers you might be able to figure out a compromise to match the impedance and get by for a little while. But keep in mind that it's way easier to melt down a speaker with too little power than too much! .

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[Renegade Wrangler]

Nice gear, and nice work! With nice gear, comes the need for power. Folks who are successful at doing nothing but a speaker swap are using very inexpensive, yet efficient speakers. That simply means they're using speakers that require very little power. These speakers are of higher end variety, and have specific power requirements in order to function. All you have to do is look at the magnets on the back of the Focal speakers and compare them to the stock speakers to get a feel for how much more substantial they really are.

You absolutely will need an amplifier with those speakers, and if you're read the post (a few times!?) then you'll see that you'll also need an advanced LOC like the JL Fix86, PAC Amp Pro or something comparable. With those speakers, your system will sound amazing. Unfortunately, it will barely play until you upgrade to a decent LOC and amp.

I've posted in a few spots that the stock amp just doesn't have what it takes to push nice speakers. It may be time to bite the bullet. If not new, check out the used stuff, but consider giving Travis a call (last section of post one). He's helped tons of folks from here, and he'll take care of you if you mention me and this post.

Finally, I'm assuming that you're starting with the base system (non-Alpine). If that's the case, the speaker wires in the soundbar that feed the stock tweeter and mid-range speakers are simply split. The Alpine system does provide a discrete channel to each speaker, which also means they're crossed-over to match their respective speaker's needs (Tweeter vs. Mid-range Woofer).

Feel free to reach out with any questions, and we'll do our best to help.

Thank you, I was hoping to try to do it right.. I like to think I am Handy like everyone on the forum but have no clue with electronics. I have the 8.4 Alpine system so thinking that I have a amp and not much passed that. I don't mind building it as long as I know I am on the right track, you can say.
I will contact Travis the thing is he is in Charlotte almost 5 hours drive , which I am contemplating.
So now at this point brings me to the next thing, I am at a point of no return and want to do it right I just need direction, would you be able to tell me what I need, to get the speakers working properly. "I don't want to return them". If I can get a hold of what I need I can probably put it together like all the components parts axetr. I see that I need the PAC and a amp, what wiaring and connections do I need.

 

[KellsiesJLUR]

Thank you, I was hoping to try to do it right.. I like to think I am Handy like everyone on the forum but have no clue with electronics. I have the 8.4 Alpine system so thinking that I have a amp and not much passed that. I don't mind building it as long as I know I am on the right track, you can say.
I will contact Travis the thing is he is in Charlotte almost 5 hours drive , which I am contemplating.
So now at this point brings me to the next thing, I am at a point of no return and want to do it right I just need direction, would you be able to tell me what I need, to get the speakers working properly. "I don't want to return them". If I can get a hold of what I need I can probably put it together like all the components parts axetr. I see that I need the PAC and a amp, what wiaring and connections do I need.

I just did the Fosgate DSR in mine with the Fosgate 4 channel weather resistant amp. I used the factory speakers and added a cheap prebuilt box with a lower wattage 12 in the back temporarily on a little memphis amp. Mine didn't have a factory amp. I like the DSR and it rocks loud and sound quality is pretty good but I could use some better quality speakers now. Also the shape of the inside of a Jeep with the factory placement of the speakers is not ideal but I could go topless and still jam now! The DSR is a little tricky to tune because it has so much adjustment and the Bluetooth connection is still a bit squirrelly so if you want simpler I would probably suggest the other options that may be a bit more user friendly. And make sure whatever amp you go with is rated at least close to what your speakers are or you will still be in the same boat. It sounds like Sting is a bit more up to date on the newer products than I so maybe they can suggest an exact amp choice? This is my first endeavor back since I was doing car stereo in the 90's. I don't know where you are at but I know a guy just south of ATL that could definitely hook you up right
.

 

[Renegade Wrangler]

Like sting said the bigger the magnet the more power it requires to move the voice coil through it. A bigger amp will be necessary to realize the full potential of your new speakers. You can measure the speakers at the terminals with a multi meter for resistance. Factory amps to tend to run with lower resistance so if you doubled the resistance with your new speakers you might be pulling half the load your amp is capable of and getting half the output. A new aftermarket amp is probably your best bet but if you measure your old speakers you might be able to figure out a compromise to match the impedance and get by for a little while. But keep in mind that it's way easier to melt down a speaker with too little power than too much! .

Thank you for the answer, I am planning on doing just that, adding a amp. I realized that this is the direction if I want to keep the speakers that are already installed. Hint if I am going to lose money I would rather it be to my benefit . I just posted a reply to Sting hoping he would give me a list of what I would need to do that. Also It looks like I will go through the chat.

 

[KellsiesJLUR]

Thank you for the answer, I am planning on doing just that, adding a amp. I realized that this is the direction if I want to keep the speakers that are already installed. Hint if I am going to lose money I would rather it be to my benefit . I just posted a reply to Sting hoping he would give me a list of what I would need to do that. Also It looks like I will go through the chat.

Awesome! I think you are on the right track we just attacked it from opposite directions. Good luck and let us know how it sounds once you are done. I'll be looking for some upgraded speakers next.

 

[Sting_NC_USA]

Thank you, I was hoping to try to do it right.. I like to think I am Handy like everyone on the forum but have no clue with electronics. I have the 8.4 Alpine system so thinking that I have a amp and not much passed that. I don't mind building it as long as I know I am on the right track, you can say.
I will contact Travis the thing is he is in Charlotte almost 5 hours drive , which I am contemplating.
So now at this point brings me to the next thing, I am at a point of no return and want to do it right I just need direction, would you be able to tell me what I need, to get the speakers working properly. "I don't want to return them". If I can get a hold of what I need I can probably put it together like all the components parts axetr. I see that I need the PAC and a amp, what wiaring and connections do I need.

Gasan, the only way I know to maximize your current position (prior to any further upgrades) would be to remove the cross-overs, running the stock tweeter wires to your new tweeters, and the stock mid-range wires to the new mid-range speakers. I can't say for sure, but you may/may not need to add resistors in order to trick the system into passing the signal sensing test at bootup.

The Alpine system, as mentioned earlier, sends discrete signals to each speaker component, so the way they're currently wired is limiting the signal range going to your speakers. If you're sending the mid-range signal through the crossover, then no high frequency signals are likely being played. If you're sending the stock tweeter wires into the crossovers, then you're likely not getting any of the mid-range signals coming through. Wiring them direct to each respective speaker, bypassing the crossovers (for now) would at least provide a low volume alternative to get them playing.

The easiest path for upgrades might involve adding a PAC Amp Pro, feeding RCA cables to your new Amp and putting the crossovers back into play. The amp choice you make can range widely, so you'd really need to decide what you're wanting in the long run. While any mid-level or higher 4-channel amp would work, you'll want to consider if you plan on adding a sub in the future. If so, you might consider a 5-channel amp, or the preferred route of running a dedicated amp for the main speakers, and a separate amp for your sub.

I'll share a rough, amateur diagram I made for a different system, but it will give you a good idea of the parts/wiring needed. For this one, the amp was smaller, so we used 8ga power wire, though I'm generally running 4 or 2ga depending on the long term plan. This outlines using a JL Fix86 and the necessary resistors, though the resistors and the Fix86 would be replaced by the PAC if you go that route. Either option is acceptable. I believe the Fix86 provides the cleanest signal, though you can't beat the ease of install with the PAC. It's a tough choice.

I'm happy to expand, though Travis can surely assist further, and help you with pricing.

 

[Renegade Wrangler]

I just did the Fosgate DSR in mine with the Fosgate 4 channel weather resistant amp. I used the factory speakers and added a cheap prebuilt box with a lower wattage 12 in the back temporarily on a little memphis amp. Mine didn't have a factory amp. I like the DSR and it rocks loud and sound quality is pretty good but I could use some better quality speakers now. Also the shape of the inside of a Jeep with the factory placement of the speakers is not ideal but I could go topless and still jam now! The DSR is a little tricky to tune because it has so much adjustment and the Bluetooth connection is still a bit squirrelly so if you want simpler I would probably suggest the other options that may be a bit more user friendly. And make sure whatever amp you go with is rated at least close to what your speakers are or you will still be in the same boat. It sounds like Sting is a bit more up to date on the newer products than I so maybe they can suggest an exact amp choice? This is my first endeavor back since I was doing car stereo in the 90's. I don't know where you are at but I know a guy just south of ATL that could definitely hook you up right
.

Thanks for the reply, I started backwards, maybe to force my self to go all out, I would appreciate the contact I am north of Atlanta, I don't mind the time to put in to it but I almost live in my Jeep can't live without the stareo for too long. So I will start and see how far I can go before I bail my self out.

 

[KellsiesJLUR]

Gasan, the only way I know to maximize your current position (prior to any further upgrades) would be to remove the cross-overs, running the stock tweeter wires to your new tweeters, and the stock mid-range wires to the new mid-range speakers. I can't say for sure, but you may/may not need to add resistors in order to trick the system into passing the signal sensing test at bootup.

The Alpine system, as mentioned earlier, sends discrete signals to each speaker component, so the way they're currently wired is limiting the signal range going to your speakers. If you're sending the mid-range signal through the crossover, then no high frequency signals are likely being played. If you're sending the stock tweeter wires into the crossovers, then you're likely not getting any of the mid-range signals coming through. Wiring them direct to each respective speaker, bypassing the crossovers (for now) would at least provide a low volume alternative to get them playing.

The easiest path for upgrades might involve adding a PAC Amp Pro, feeding RCA cables to your new Amp and putting the crossovers back into play. The amp choice you make can range widely, so you'd really need to decide what you're wanting in the long run. While any mid-level or higher 4-channel amp would work, you'll want to consider if you plan on adding a sub in the future. If so, you might consider a 5-channel amp, or the preferred route of running a dedicated amp for the main speakers, and a separate amp for your sub.

I'll share a rough, amateur diagram I made for a different system, but it will give you a good idea of the parts/wiring needed. For this one, the amp was smaller, so we used 8ga power wire, though I'm generally running 4 or 2ga depending on the long term plan. This outlines using a JL Fix86 and the necessary resistors, though the resistors and the Fix86 would be replaced by the PAC if you go that route. Either option is acceptable. I believe the Fix86 provides the cleanest signal, though you can't beat the ease of install with the PAC. It's a tough choice.

I'm happy to expand, though Travis can surely assist further, and help you with pricing.

I don't mean to butt in and please let me know if I am out of line or something but I would like to pick your brain if possible. Is the harness in an amplified model different than a non amplified? If so what's different? Caps on the high range?

 

[KellsiesJLUR]

Thanks for the reply, I started backwards, maybe to force my self to go all out, I would appreciate the contact I am north of Atlanta, I don't mind the time to put in to it but I almost live in my Jeep can't live without the stareo for too long. So I will start and see how far I can go before I bail my self out.

Innovative sounds in stockbridge ga! Doug is the guy!

 

[Sting_NC_USA]

I don't mean to butt in and please let me know if I am out of line or something but I would like to pick your brain if possible. Is the harness in an amplified model different than a non amplified? If so what's different? Caps on the high range?

Definitely not out of line, and no worries on chiming in. They're basically the same. One has more wires than the other. The PAC fits both, for example, and you simply set the dip switches on the PAC so that it adjust how it handles the processing. I can't speak to the RF version, but that's why many are drawn to the PAC.

 

[KellsiesJLUR]

Definitely not out of line, and no worries on chiming in. They're basically the same. One has more wires than the other. The PAC fits both, for example, and you simply set the dip switches on the PAC so that it adjust how it handles the processing. I can't speak to the RF version, but that's why many are drawn to the PAC.

I got 1 for each corner out of my maestro harness. Thinking I might want to separate the fronts. I guess I'll need to run new wires then? No unused plugs on the no amp at the speakers then? Or is the adapter harness summing the channels together?

 

[Sting_NC_USA]

I got 1 for each corner out of my maestro harness. Thinking I might want to separate the fronts. I guess I'll need to run new wires then? No unused plugs on the no amp at the speakers then? Or is the adapter harness summing the channels together?

I always recommend running new wire on an amplified system, though you would benefit by installing separates up front and running the single channel into the separate's crossover, then feeding each component speaker from there. I do believe the various adapters are summing the signals from the Alpine unit. No need for that with the base system.

 

[KellsiesJLUR]

I always recommend running new wire on an amplified system, though you would benefit by installing separates up front and running the single channel into the separate's crossover, then feeding each component speaker from there. I do believe the various adapters are summing the signals from the Alpine unit. No need for that with the base system.

Thanks so much for the expertise and your time! I am still trying to get mine tuned but I am getting close and hearing the limitations of the aqua knee repeaters. I have been playing with T lines and a 3d printer ! Lol I will probably end up just building some kick panels and use the extra channels on my DSR

 

[Renegade Wrangler]

Gasan, the only way I know to maximize your current position (prior to any further upgrades) would be to remove the cross-overs, running the stock tweeter wires to your new tweeters, and the stock mid-range wires to the new mid-range speakers. I can't say for sure, but you may/may not need to add resistors in order to trick the system into passing the signal sensing test at bootup.

The Alpine system, as mentioned earlier, sends discrete signals to each speaker component, so the way they're currently wired is limiting the signal range going to your speakers. If you're sending the mid-range signal through the crossover, then no high frequency signals are likely being played. If you're sending the stock tweeter wires into the crossovers, then you're likely not getting any of the mid-range signals

Gasan, the only way I know to maximize your current position (prior to any further upgrades) would be to remove the cross-overs, running the stock tweeter wires to your new tweeters, and the stock mid-range wires to the new mid-range speakers. I can't say for sure, but you may/may not need to add resistors in order to trick the system into passing the signal sensing test at bootup.

The Alpine system, as mentioned earlier, sends discrete signals to each speaker component, so the way they're currently wired is limiting the signal range going to your speakers. If you're sending the mid-range signal through the crossover, then no high frequency signals are likely being played. If you're sending the stock tweeter wires into the crossovers, then you're likely not getting any of the mid-range signals coming through. Wiring them direct to each respective speaker, bypassing the crossovers (for now) would at least provide a low volume alternative to get them playing.

The easiest path for upgrades might involve adding a PAC Amp Pro, feeding RCA cables to your new Amp and putting the crossovers back into play. The amp choice you make can range widely, so you'd really need to decide what you're wanting in the long run. While any mid-level or higher 4-channel amp would work, you'll want to consider if you plan on adding a sub in the future. If so, you might consider a 5-channel amp, or the preferred route of running a dedicated amp for the main speakers, and a separate amp for your sub.

I'll share a rough, amateur diagram I made for a different system, but it will give you a good idea of the parts/wiring needed. For this one, the amp was smaller, so we used 8ga power wire, though I'm generally running 4 or 2ga depending on the long term plan. This outlines using a JL Fix86 and the necessary resistors, though the resistors and the Fix86 would be replaced by the PAC if you go that route. Either option is acceptable. I believe the Fix86 provides the cleanest signal, though you can't beat the ease of install with the PAC. It's a tough choice.

I'm happy to expand, though Travis can surely assist further, and help you with pricing.

coming through. Wiring them direct to each respective speaker, bypassing the crossovers (for now) would at least provide a low volume alternative to get them playing.

The easiest path for upgrades might involve adding a PAC Amp Pro, feeding RCA cables to your new Amp and putting the crossovers back into play. The amp choice you make can range widely, so you'd really need to decide what you're wanting in the long run. While any mid-level or higher 4-channel amp would work, you'll want to consider if you plan on adding a sub in the future. If so, you might consider a 5-channel amp, or the preferred route of running a dedicated amp for the main speakers, and a separate amp for your sub.

I'll share a rough, amateur diagram I made for a different system, but it will give you a good idea of the parts/wiring needed. For this one, the amp was smaller, so we used 8ga power wire, though I'm generally running 4 or 2ga depending on the long term plan. This outlines using a JL Fix86 and the necessary resistors, though the resistors and the Fix86 would be replaced by the PAC if you go that route. Either option is acceptable. I believe the Fix86 provides the cleanest signal, though you can't beat the ease of install with the PAC. It's a tough choice.

I'm happy to expand, though Travis can surely assist further, and help you with pricing.

Thank you

Gasan, the only way I know to maximize your current position (prior to any further upgrades) would be to remove the cross-overs, running the stock tweeter wires to your new tweeters, and the stock mid-range wires to the new mid-range speakers. I can't say for sure, but you may/may not need to add resistors in order to trick the system into passing the signal sensing test at bootup.

The Alpine system, as mentioned earlier, sends discrete signals to each speaker component, so the way they're currently wired is limiting the signal range going to your speakers. If you're sending the mid-range signal through the crossover, then no high frequency signals are likely being played. If you're sending the stock tweeter wires into the crossovers, then you're likely not getting any of the mid-range signals coming through. Wiring them direct to each respective speaker, bypassing the crossovers (for now) would at least provide a low volume alternative to get them playing.

The easiest path for upgrades might involve adding a PAC Amp Pro, feeding RCA cables to your new Amp and putting the crossovers back into play. The amp choice you make can range widely, so you'd really need to decide what you're wanting in the long run. While any mid-level or higher 4-channel amp would work, you'll want to consider if you plan on adding a sub in the future. If so, you might consider a 5-channel amp, or the preferred route of running a dedicated amp for the main speakers, and a separate amp for your sub.

I'll share a rough, amateur diagram I made for a different system, but it will give you a good idea of the parts/wiring needed. For this one, the amp was smaller, so we used 8ga power wire, though I'm generally running 4 or 2ga depending on the long term plan. This outlines using a JL Fix86 and the necessary resistors, though the resistors and the Fix86 would be replaced by the PAC if you go that route. Either option is acceptable. I believe the Fix86 provides the cleanest signal, though you can't beat the ease of install with the PAC. It's a tough choice.

I'm happy to expand, though Travis can surely assist further, and help you with pricing.

Thank you for the offer and information, I started to look for amps to see what I want and I already have a Pac on the way. Will start to pick your brains when I get started and read the chat again looking at what was said in regards to the upgrade involving the pac and amp install and locations.

 

[Fyrfytrfil]

Hello! New to the forums. Learned a ton from this thread. Just want to make sure I am understanding everything correctly.

Components I am installing

Upgraded to 8.4 w/nav from 7.0 (non-amplified)
Pac Pro
Rockford Fosgate DSR1
2 pair of Polk MM6502 components. (dash and soundbar)
2 Infinity Ref1000s 10" subs
DB Drive APM250.4D amplifier for Polks
DB Drive APM300.2D amplifier for Infinity subs
Have already run all new speaker wire to all locations

Am I correct that I can just run the rca outs from the Pac Pro to the inputs on the DSR1, then from the DSR1 to my amplifiers or is there a better way to connect the DSR1 to the Pac Pro?

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