jeepingib

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I went through this thread at least twice, I am actually doing it now again and I am still lost :angry: I added the knee panal speakers Focal ICU 100 using the provided Harness and the Focal ES 100 using the crossovers provided in the soundbar taping into the main speaker line in to the crossovers. And a total disappointment very low sound. So I contacted Crutchfield to try to figure it out I was told that my factory Amp is not strong enough, 2 ohm versus 4 ohm, something like that. It sounds like they might be directing me wrong. Help, is it something that I can do or is it not possible with the factory 8.4. I see a lot of people changing their speakers, I don't see why it didn't not work. Do I have to change them to something else. This is kind of a basic swap I thought I am not doing anything like what some of you guys are doing. Please someone can direct me or give advice. :please: if need I can try to elaborate.
As pretty much everyone else has said, you have some issues with this setup. The factory "premium" stereo uses a factory amplifier with a built in crossover. So with the way that you are wired up you are not even getting full signal to your crossover that came with your components. And as Crutchfield and others have said the factory amplifier is not really capable of pushing those speakers very well. It's roughly 45 watt per channel at 2 ohm. Your speakers are 4 ohm so they are seeing about half of that, maybe 22 or so, and need quite a bit more. There are a few of us that are limping the factory system along with decent results, but we have used JBL, Infinity, or Kicker speakers as they are low ohm, efficient speakers. But those Focals will sound better once properly powered.





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Renegade Wrangler

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As pretty much everyone else has said, you have some issues with this setup. The factory "premium" stereo uses a factory amplifier with a built in crossover. So with the way that you are wired up you are not even getting full signal to your crossover that came with your components. And as Crutchfield and others have said the factory amplifier is not really capable of pushing those speakers very well. It's roughly 45 watt per channel at 2 ohm. Your speakers are 4 ohm so they are seeing about half of that, maybe 22 or so, and need quite a bit more. There are a few of us that are limping the factory system along with decent results, but we have used JBL, Infinity, or Kicker speakers as they are low ohm, efficient speakers. But those Focals will sound better once properly powered.
Thank you for the answer, I am going the route of upgrading to support the speakers that I installed not thinking it through:angry:, so I ordered a pac already to start the instal while I look for a suitable amp, hopefully one that can fit in the dash not under the seat :( incase I go swimming :LOL:. I am reading up on amp to chos a 4 or 5 chanel amps and proper power and if I will need later a sub. Advice would be great. I can't figure out if I like the Alpine sub that is in the Jeep or not and if I can just put one after market sub that would be suitable to the amp with the system. I am not big on big sub sound. Alot of numbers and wiars, not my strong suit. We will see what happens. So advice right now on a amp would be great my speakers are RMS 60 with peak 120 sound bar and 40 with 80 peak kick panels. Kind of leaning to 4 chanel, thank you all for input
 

KellsiesJLUR

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Thank you for the answer, I am going the route of upgrading to support the speakers that I installed not thinking it through:angry:, so I ordered a pac already to start the instal while I look for a suitable amp, hopefully one that can fit in the dash not under the seat :( incase I go swimming :LOL:. I am reading up on amp to chos a 4 or 5 chanel amps and proper power and if I will need later a sub. Advice would be great. I can't figure out if I like the Alpine sub that is in the Jeep or not and if I can just put one after market sub that would be suitable to the amp with the system. I am not big on big sub sound. Alot of numbers and wiars, not my strong suit. We will see what happens. So advice right now on a amp would be great my speakers are RMS 60 with peak 120 sound bar and 40 with 80 peak kick panels. Kind of leaning to 4 chanel, thank you all for input
I bought the rockford TM400X4ad 4 channel. It's rated for 100*4. Pretty happy with it so far. It's weather resistant and really small. Fits under my passenger seat easily.
 

Renegade Wrangler

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Gasan, the only way I know to maximize your current position (prior to any further upgrades) would be to remove the cross-overs, running the stock tweeter wires to your new tweeters, and the stock mid-range wires to the new mid-range speakers. I can't say for sure, but you may/may not need to add resistors in order to trick the system into passing the signal sensing test at bootup.

The Alpine system, as mentioned earlier, sends discrete signals to each speaker component, so the way they're currently wired is limiting the signal range going to your speakers. If you're sending the mid-range signal through the crossover, then no high frequency signals are likely being played. If you're sending the stock tweeter wires into the crossovers, then you're likely not getting any of the mid-range signals coming through. Wiring them direct to each respective speaker, bypassing the crossovers (for now) would at least provide a low volume alternative to get them playing.

The easiest path for upgrades might involve adding a PAC Amp Pro, feeding RCA cables to your new Amp and putting the crossovers back into play. The amp choice you make can range widely, so you'd really need to decide what you're wanting in the long run. While any mid-level or higher 4-channel amp would work, you'll want to consider if you plan on adding a sub in the future. If so, you might consider a 5-channel amp, or the preferred route of running a dedicated amp for the main speakers, and a separate amp for your sub.

I'll share a rough, amateur diagram I made for a different system, but it will give you a good idea of the parts/wiring needed. For this one, the amp was smaller, so we used 8ga power wire, though I'm generally running 4 or 2ga depending on the long term plan. This outlines using a JL Fix86 and the necessary resistors, though the resistors and the Fix86 would be replaced by the PAC if you go that route. Either option is acceptable. I believe the Fix86 provides the cleanest signal, though you can't beat the ease of install with the PAC. It's a tough choice.

I'm happy to expand, though Travis can surely assist further, and help you with pricing.

Wiring Schematic.PNG
I just talked to Travis, great guy. Was just giving me pointers. Thank you
 

Renegade Wrangler

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Question 60 RMS in the SB and 70 RMS kick panels both components would run good with a 75 W amp, trying to figure out a good amp. :whew: you guys need to leave some in stores everything is out:CWL:
 

KellsiesJLUR

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Question 60 RMS in the SB and 70 RMS kick panels both components would run good with a 75 W amp, trying to figure out a good amp. :whew: you guys need to leave some in stores everything is out:CWL:
I like to make sure I've got plenty of power. Crutchfield was out of the rockford amps so I got mine off Amazon.
 

xtremejoe

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Hello,
Did my best to skim through 54 pages of stereo stuff that now makes me want to do a lot more to my system. However, I will stick to my original objective. Adding 1 (possibly 2) JL stealth sub boxes to a 8.4 Uconnect with the upgraded Alpine system (no upgrade of the alpine speakers or alpine amp).

Can I confirm that the best solution is still
1. Tap into the rear speaker wires housed in the B-pillar
2. Get an LOC to do the tap and run RCAs to the amp (which LOC given I don't need the PAC)
3. After market amp (JL Audio XD600/1v2) to power the sub(s).
4. Stealth box(s) 4ohm.
5. That combo allows me to do 1 box gain turned down and add 2nd one w/o swapping amps

Anyone running 2 stealth boxes that did the alpine sub delete and was it worth it vs. just disconnecting it and running the one. The only reason I am considering the 2 is unfortunately it's the lower level sub that they put in that box (I have a TW3 in my other Jeep that may swap out)

As an aside to some of the hard core techs that have written here. Will the Jeep alpine amp run better with it no longer powering the alpine subwoofer?

Thanks
 

Renegade Wrangler

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So far I have components in sound bar, will install components in the dash in the next few days. Pac is waiting and amp will be in two days hopefully I can get my system going by next weekend. It has been silent in the Jeep with out my music::angry:: I have been trying to see what I will need and how I will do it,

The Pac will go in the dash with the 8.4 unit, could not tell if I need to change anything in the programing other then the chime volume.

RCAs will go to the Amp under the seat which I have not figured out how you would bolt it down, I don't want it to be a grab and go::CWL::, that would relay suck after all this work.

Run all new wires to the speakers from the amp, it was preferred to using the originals wires.

which makes me wonder do I need to do anything to the original wiers if I am not using the factory speaker wiring, I read in the chat that I need to add resistors, I was not getting that, or it does not pertain to the 8.4 or after market amp.

that is really over simplifying it but I was trying to keep it short, my questions will start after I begin my install.

If any one has a easy fix for any of the things that they did with their install I would love to know it, Thanks all.
 
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Question 60 RMS in the SB and 70 RMS kick panels both components would run good with a 75 W amp, trying to figure out a good amp. :whew: you guys need to leave some in stores everything is out:CWL:
You'll want to provide some extra "head room" for your amp. The basic concept here is that turning the stereo up all the way adds distortion, and that added distortion gets amplified to cause chaos for speakers. I generally recommend buying an amp that's about 130% of the RMS capacity of the speakers. For 60 watt RMS speakers, you'd want an amp with 80 or so watts per channel. That way, you don't have to turn the stereo's volume all the way up to maximize the sound with the least amount of distortion.

I'm oversimplifying this, but search the internet for Car Amplifier Headroom, and you'll see some great articles on the subject. Enjoy!
 
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Sting_NC_USA

Sting_NC_USA

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Hello,
Did my best to skim through 54 pages of stereo stuff that now makes me want to do a lot more to my system. However, I will stick to my original objective. Adding 1 (possibly 2) JL stealth sub boxes to a 8.4 Uconnect with the upgraded Alpine system (no upgrade of the alpine speakers or alpine amp).

Can I confirm that the best solution is still
1. Tap into the rear speaker wires housed in the B-pillar
2. Get an LOC to do the tap and run RCAs to the amp (which LOC given I don't need the PAC)
3. After market amp (JL Audio XD600/1v2) to power the sub(s).
4. Stealth box(s) 4ohm.
5. That combo allows me to do 1 box gain turned down and add 2nd one w/o swapping amps

Anyone running 2 stealth boxes that did the alpine sub delete and was it worth it vs. just disconnecting it and running the one. The only reason I am considering the 2 is unfortunately it's the lower level sub that they put in that box (I have a TW3 in my other Jeep that may swap out)

As an aside to some of the hard core techs that have written here. Will the Jeep alpine amp run better with it no longer powering the alpine subwoofer?

Thanks
You're on it, and your system should sound great. I'd argue that for the money, you'd be better off adding your own custom made box and a higher-end sub (as you know, it's just a W3), but if space is an issue, then the stealth boxes will work well, especially if you get two!

Generally speaking, when running more than one sub, you want your subs to "match." While I believe there's a more technical definition as to why, the simple view is that they can cancel each other out. That's because phasing conflicts can degrade the sound, if not handled properly. I've never encountered that personally, but it's a very common concern.

Oh, and addressing the last question, unfortunately, you won't experience performance gains from the main head unit for the balance of your system by disconnecting the sub. The stock sub is running on a discrete channel, and disconnecting it won't provide more power or better sound quality to the rest of your system. You'll simply get better bass response from the aftermarket amp and sub(s).

Good luck with the install, and let us know how it goes!
 
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Sting_NC_USA

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So far I have components in sound bar, will install components in the dash in the next few days. Pac is waiting and amp will be in two days hopefully I can get my system going by next weekend. It has been silent in the Jeep with out my music::angry:: I have been trying to see what I will need and how I will do it,

The Pac will go in the dash with the 8.4 unit, could not tell if I need to change anything in the programing other then the chime volume.

RCAs will go to the Amp under the seat which I have not figured out how you would bolt it down, I don't want it to be a grab and go::CWL::, that would relay suck after all this work.

Run all new wires to the speakers from the amp, it was preferred to using the originals wires.

which makes me wonder do I need to do anything to the original wiers if I am not using the factory speaker wiring, I read in the chat that I need to add resistors, I was not getting that, or it does not pertain to the 8.4 or after market amp.

that is really over simplifying it but I was trying to keep it short, my questions will start after I begin my install.

If any one has a easy fix for any of the things that they did with their install I would love to know it, Thanks all.
If you're using the PAC, you won't need resistors. It does a great job of satisfying the load sensing test from uConnect.

As for the tips, at least from me, post #1 here contains many that I've run across. Having the right tools is key, especially quality wire splicers, connectors, terminals, etc. Whatever you do, make sure you put a fuse between your firewall and the battery, closer to the battery is preferred.

And, I'll add this to post #1 shortly: Don't skimp on your main power wire. There are several types of wire available with the two primary versions being CCA and OFC. Get OFC. It transfers power more efficiently and runs cooler. I just ran into an overheating issue while running my ARB Dual off of CCA wire and it melted. The fuse by the battery saved my A$$!
 

Renegade Wrangler

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If you're using the PAC, you won't need resistors. It does a great job of satisfying the load sensing test from uConnect.

As for the tips, at least from me, post #1 here contains many that I've run across. Having the right tools is key, especially quality wire splicers, connectors, terminals, etc. Whatever you do, make sure you put a fuse between your firewall and the battery, closer to the battery is preferred.

And, I'll add this to post #1 shortly: Don't skimp on your main power wire. There are several types of wire available with the two primary versions being CCA and OFC. Get OFC. It transfers power more efficiently and runs cooler. I just ran into an overheating issue while running my ARB Dual off of CCA wire and it melted. The fuse by the battery saved my A$$!
I got a 4 chanel amp with 70 RMS and my dash speakers are 60 RMS and the soundbar are 70
You'll want to provide some extra "head room" for your amp. The basic concept here is that turning the stereo up all the way adds distortion, and that added distortion gets amplified to cause chaos for speakers. I generally recommend buying an amp that's about 130% of the RMS capacity of the speakers. For 60 watt RMS speakers, you'd want an amp with 80 or so watts per channel. That way, you don't have to turn the stereo's volume all the way up to maximize the sound with the least amount of distortion.

I'm oversimplifying this, but search the internet for Car Amplifier Headroom, and you'll see some great articles on the subject. Enjoy!
  • 70 watts RMS x 4 at 4 ohms (100 watts RMS x 4 at 2 ohms)
the amp is a FPX 4.4 SQ good price, which the speakers are also Focals, I figured that would go well together, I was not looking for loud just deeper sound and more detailed at lower volume I guess if that makes sense. So the 70 is the max or the 100 watts is the max
 

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