Adding an Aftermarket Amp(s)

[IPvFletch]

I also run without top almost 100% of the time, and without doors as often as possible. So security is a concern on a subwoofer. Definitely open to ideas on this one.

Look into a soft tonneau cover, like the one from GPCA. It will keep the sub/amp dry and hide it when parked. It's not foolproof, but it may help. They do make more secure metal ones, like from Diabolical, but then vibrations and sound obstruction may be an issue.

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[DravenGSX]

Look into a soft tonneau cover, like the one from GPCA. It will keep the sub/amp dry and hide it when parked. It's not foolproof, but it may help. They do make more secure metal ones, like from Diabolical, but then vibrations and sound obstruction may be an issue.

I've been looking at the GPCA cover. I actually got to see one in person on a JK not long ago, and it didn't look as bad as I thought it would. The problem with the Diabilical or Tuffy enclosures is that they don't work well with the soft top. There are enough issues with the soft top, that I'd really prefer not to add more troubles with it.

 

[IPvFletch]

I've been looking at the GPCA cover. I actually got to see one in person on a JK not long ago, and it didn't look as bad as I thought it would. The problem with the Diabilical or Tuffy enclosures is that they don't work well with the soft top. There are enough issues with the soft top, that I'd really prefer not to add more troubles with it.

My one GPCA gripe is the center rear part by the tailgate, sags inward/downard. It looks dumb when it happens. I am going to slice the fabric on the underside and slide in some long skinny neodymium magnets, which should make it stick to the tailgate and clean up that edge a bit.

 

[Sting_NC_USA]

I'm getting close to pulling the trigger on something here. I have the Alpine system. Couple of questions:

From the wiring diagram on page 1, it looks like there are 4 channels coming out of the amp? If so, I'm guessing there is some sort of bass blocker on the factory "tweeters" that are fed through the mid-bass speakers? I was hoping to utilize the factory wiring from the aftermarket amp, but I'm starting to think that may not be viable, if there is a capacitor there.

Has anybody used the JL FiX-LSA-4 (https://www.crutchfield.com/p_13698124/JL-Audio-FiX-LSA-4.html?tp=61671&s=0) to handle the load sensing bit? I think I read a comment earlier in this thread that somebody needed two 47 ohm resistors wired in? I'm wondering if the LSA-4 won't be more consistent. It's pricey, but seems like it would make install quite a bit simpler.

I think I'm going to try to fabricate a mount for a 6" speaker in the knee panels. Going to cut the top of the enclosure off, and put a piece of ABS plastic that I cut to fit in its place. If anybody has a line on some used (junk yard maybe?) knee panel enclosures, I'd love to buy a couple to test and play with.

I think I'd like to go with this setup:
Audiofrog G60S with the GS10s mounted in the dash, and the GS60s in the knee panels
Audiofrog GS40s in the sound bar
MB Quart MA1-440.4 marine amplifier under the passenger seat
Fix 86 or LCQi in the dash under the steering wheel (though I have an LC8i from a previous build that would be no cost if the processing isn't as dramatic as I imagine it is)

I'm debating on doing away with the tweeters in the sound bar. I'm not a fan of super bright systems, and I think the GS40s will fill nicely. I could eventually run this as a 3 way active system also, saving a little money on another amp down the road. Any thoughts?

I'm out of my element when it comes to subwoofers. I need more than the factory Alpine, obviously - but it's definitely not my area of expertise. To complicate things a bit, I've removed the carpet in my Jeep and raptor lined the entire thing, so running cable is going to be interesting. I also run without top almost 100% of the time, and without doors as often as possible. So security is a concern on a subwoofer. Definitely open to ideas on this one.

Thanks for reading, and any feedback anybody has!

@DravenGSX there are only 4 channels, and the signal is simply split. I have to recommend running your own wires, as the stock wires are very thin, and you'll want the proper throughput from your amp. The wiring part is VERY EASY.

I noted in the original post that the JL Fix-LSA-4; unfortunately, doesn't work. I'm confident JL Audio will (if they haven't already) come out with a new version, though I haven't yet seen anything become available recently. You do need the resistors in the scenario you describe, and you'll need 4.

I really like your idea of cutting the entire top section off of the enclosure. If I did mine all over again, I'd use a fiberglass mold. Just make sure the speaker is mounted close enough to the grill so that it doesn't hit the grill on excursion, yet can be sealed (with a foam ring) to minimize sound loss behind the dash.

I have to recommend the JL Fix-86 over the LCQi, as I believe you'll see a smoother/flatter signal output for your amp. When you mount the JL Fix-86, ensure you can get to the controls from the front. It fits very well in there.

You won't likely hear tweeters in your soundbar unless you angle them towards your ears. I put the same speaker separates in the soundbar as I did in the kick panels, and there's soooo much sound loss in the soundbar that I really wish I hadn't put too much time/effort into those speakers. The only way to overcome this, is to build a sealed enclosure (fiberglass recommended) inside the soundbar's speaker cavity.

If you have any interest in something like the JL Backbone, Tuffy's Security Enclosure or Diabolical's security product, you'll gain immediate security, and also a place to mount your amps. I installed an amp board inside of my JL Backbone, right behind the rear seats. They are protected from the weather and from most thieves.

Great questions, and I like the gear you're planning to use. Best of luck!

 

[anotherWS6]

Maestro RR Module

Can somone expand on this? When is this module helpful?

Is it still helpful without a factory amp? Will I get a clean signal without factory amp or am I still going to get "EQ'd" audio to the amp?

 

[anotherWS6]

So both sets of wires are getting the same spectrum/signal, or are the tweeters getting more lows cut out?

 

[Sting_NC_USA]

So both sets of wires are getting the same spectrum/signal, or are the tweeters getting more lows cut out?

The tweeters have "bass blockers" built in. If you take them out you'll see them soldered at the terminals.

 

[Sting_NC_USA]

Maestro RR Module

Can someone expand on this? When is this module helpful?

Is it still helpful without a factory amp? Will I get a clean signal without factory amp or am I still going to get "EQ'd" audio to the amp?

I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure the Maestro RR Module is only needed to map an aftermarket radio to the steering wheel controls. It really wouldn't serve a purpose if you're planning to use the stock radio with an aftermarket amp. That said, if you are indeed planning to amplify your entire system, you would want a DSP/sound processor of some sort.

DSP's are still valuable if you're only adding a sub, but not 100% necessary for lower powered options. For a sub-only install, you can get away with using an LOC (Line Output Converter - AudioControl LC2i for example). Finally, if you're planning to go with a high-power setup, definitely get the sound processor, otherwise your sending high powered distortion to your expensive amp/sub.

Per the original post, I'm using the JL Audio FIX86, which cleans the signal and counteracts the stock EQ settings to feed a cleaner, flatter signal to my amps.

Let me know if that doesn't make sense.

 

[anotherWS6]

Ok, so I've read about this entire thread and have some questions.

First off - here is my thought process.... A super low buck system and a middle ground.

Low Buck - I have ordered an 8 inch powered sub and some bass capacitors for factory speakers. Was planning on using rear speaker wire for amp inputs.

Middle ground - Simplify things a bit and just run a pair of 5.25's in all 4 locations, eliminating the smaller speakers and then using a 4 channel amp. This in addition to the sub.

I'm getting really confused by the JL86 etc. If I just use decent, run of the mill LOC's how much sound will I be losing for each channel and the sub?

I see that there are other "fixing" LOC boxes on the market more reasonably priced but most of them seem to be outputting only one set of RCA's. Of course I could just split them and get good sound but I would lose my imaging and my ability to fade F/R with the factory base head unit. No? I want to keep the imaging as well as be able to fade mostly front as my 4 year old daughter sits in teh back seat directly under the sound bar speakers. When she's in the vehicle I fade front so I can still hear well and dont blow her out.

I'm getting the feeling that I'm going to be disappointed if I run regular, fairly inexpensive LOC's as I have in the past. Can you elaborate a bit more?

I have already ordered the wire resistors, and believe I need four, correct? Or do I need eight, one for each of the factory speakers even though I will likely eliminate one at each corner. (I ordered extra, so this is a technical question, not a how many should I buy question.)

I have been able to put together nice systems in older vehicles for under $500 and wouldlike to do the same here, wiring, everythign all in doing all install myself. But if I need some fancy LOC it's going to blow my budget quickly. What should I do?

Thank you OP and thanks everyone for contributing to such a great, helpful thread.

Cory

 

[Sting_NC_USA]

Ok, so I've read about this entire thread and have some questions.

First off - here is my thought process.... A super low buck system and a middle ground.

Low Buck - I have ordered an 8 inch powered sub and some bass capacitors for factory speakers. Was planning on using rear speaker wire for amp inputs.

Middle ground - Simplify things a bit and just run a pair of 5.25's in all 4 locations, eliminating the smaller speakers and then using a 4 channel amp. This in addition to the sub.

I'm getting really confused by the JL86 etc. If I just use decent, run of the mill LOC's how much sound will I be losing for each channel and the sub?

I see that there are other "fixing" LOC boxes on the market more reasonably priced but most of them seem to be outputting only one set of RCA's. Of course I could just split them and get good sound but I would lose my imaging and my ability to fade F/R with the factory base head unit. No? I want to keep the imaging as well as be able to fade mostly front as my 4 year old daughter sits in teh back seat directly under the sound bar speakers. When she's in the vehicle I fade front so I can still hear well and dont blow her out.

I'm getting the feeling that I'm going to be disappointed if I run regular, fairly inexpensive LOC's as I have in the past. Can you elaborate a bit more?

I have already ordered the wire resistors, and believe I need four, correct? Or do I need eight, one for each of the factory speakers even though I will likely eliminate one at each corner. (I ordered extra, so this is a technical question, not a how many should I buy question.)

I have been able to put together nice systems in older vehicles for under $500 and wouldlike to do the same here, wiring, everythign all in doing all install myself. But if I need some fancy LOC it's going to blow my budget quickly. What should I do?

Thank you OP and thanks everyone for contributing to such a great, helpful thread.

Cory

Great questions! Without using a JL Audio Fix86 (or equivalent), you'll be sending highly EQ'd signals directly into your amp. These are signals that were designed for the cheap, stock Jeep speakers, not high quality speakers. Without balancing the pre-amp signal, your amp will only boost that degraded, EQ'd signal and the signal's quality/clarity simply won't be adequate to maximize your upgraded speaker's capabilities. I'd venture to say it wouldn't be worth upgrading, and going through all of the trouble to install everything, unless you find a way to balance out the stock signal.

My recommendation has consistently been... put the majority of your money into the front speakers, using just a little bit of your resources for the soundbar, as it really doesn't do much other than provide "fill" quality level sound. It's terrible, actually! Use that saved money on a quality DSP. You won't regret doing so, but you will (in my most humble opinion) regret going cheap in that area.

You're dead on with the need/desire to have multiple outputs. I know I sound like a JL Audio advertisement, and I can assure you I don't get paid a dime by JL Audio (wish I did!), but the JL Audio Fix86 has two sets of inputs (Front/Rear - Left/Right) and three sets of outputs (front/rear/sub). It allows you to maintain fader and balance control from the head unit. It also has an EQ built into it, accessible via PC. For the record, it's a simple 10-band EQ, though it's helpful for basic tuning.

You'll only need 4 resistors, and your logic is sound in buying extras since I broke one or two in my first install. The speaker pairs in each corner consist of a single channel that's split. When you tap into the wires (behind the radio), you'll see there are only 8 wires (4 channels).

Being very candid, if you have the Alpine system, $500 or so won't improve much, unless you already have most of the gear. Anything you do will improve the base system's sound, however. I personally am not a huge fan of the powered subs, though I've heard a few that are respectable. It's one of those things where you should consider your long-range goals, avoiding paying for something two to three times, when that cost of upgrading is more than buying the system you want in the first place (first hand experience here!).

I think I covered everything, but if I missed something, or can elaborate further, just let me know. Good luck!

 

[anotherWS6]

So a couple of things. If I add just a single amp pwoered sub what is the logic behind going with a LC2i lets say vs a standard converter like this....https://www.amazon.com/Kicker-KISLO...trol+lc2i&qid=1556247142&s=electronics&sr=1-9

??

Is a lowish powered sub going to know the difference? Would a high powered one?

If the decision is made to go with a traditional "(ie cheap) converter for the sub and I do end up installing a 4 channel amp, am I really getting anything by installing the LC7i? I understand that it's correcting and sort of "putting back" some of the frequencies, but if I'm going to be running small 5.25 max speakers off of a high pass amp, aren't I putting back low frequencies with the converter and then taking them right back out with the high pass?

Is the LC7i doing more? Specifically, is it getting rid of high volume distortion from the factory head unit?
And if it is, how much is there considering the head wont be powering anything anymore? Of course it will distort as we ask it to push harder on the speakers, but if it's just providing a signal is the loss of sound quality the same?

I have been considering a 4 channel with high level inputs. I THINK this would still allow me to adjust fade and balance with the factory head like normal. Correct?

Just trying to get edumacateded. I've typically worked with aftermarket head units. I havent added to a factory system in 12 years and was pleased with the results then. Using the cheapest speaker to rca converters I could find, lol.

 

[Sting_NC_USA]

So a couple of things. If I add just a single amp pwoered sub what is the logic behind going with a LC2i lets say vs a standard converter like this....https://www.amazon.com/Kicker-KISLO...trol+lc2i&qid=1556247142&s=electronics&sr=1-9

??

Is a lowish powered sub going to know the difference? Would a high powered one?

If the decision is made to go with a traditional "(ie cheap) converter for the sub and I do end up installing a 4 channel amp, am I really getting anything by installing the LC7i? I understand that it's correcting and sort of "putting back" some of the frequencies, but if I'm going to be running small 5.25 max speakers off of a high pass amp, aren't I putting back low frequencies with the converter and then taking them right back out with the high pass?

Is the LC7i doing more? Specifically, is it getting rid of high volume distortion from the factory head unit?
And if it is, how much is there considering the head wont be powering anything anymore? Of course it will distort as we ask it to push harder on the speakers, but if it's just providing a signal is the loss of sound quality the same?

I have been considering a 4 channel with high level inputs. I THINK this would still allow me to adjust fade and balance with the factory head like normal. Correct?

Just trying to get edumacateded. I've typically worked with aftermarket head units. I havent added to a factory system in 12 years and was pleased with the results then. Using the cheapest speaker to rca converters I could find, lol.

I've yet to see one of the basic LOC's actually be able to handle the signal sent by UConnect. You could try it, though I usually recommend picking up something more elaborate for a sub-only install. You can always return the LC2i if the smaller LOC does work. I just can't recommend it based on feedback from others on this board.

I can't speak to the LC7i, as I've never used it. I'm completely sold on the Fix86 approach, and simply not willing to chance using anything less. It's worth noting you can find them used for much less than retail. Just make sure you process a firmware update before installing if you do go that route.

The stock speakers are soooo cheap, and they really are limited too much. I understand what you're saying, though regardless of how it may seem, that stock signal will not effectively feed a set of capable speakers. As a point of clarification, you wouldn't want to send a high-pass signal. You'd likely want to feed your 5.25's a full signal and let their crossover handle it. Most, if not all separates come with a central cross-over that handles a full-range signal very effectively.

You won't be able to use the high-level inputs on your amp. The UConnect signal must be processed. There are likely a few amps capable of doing this, though I've yet to run across one (understand, I'm not a professional installer).

I, too, used to install systems in the older cars. UConnect is a totally different animal, and so are most of the new systems out there. Many cars come with very highly EQ'd systems that also integrate noise cancellation of engine and outdoor sounds. Those are extremely difficult to overcome!

 

[anotherWS6]

Oh, and as far as the powered sub thing goes I tend to agree. This thing is actually going to be used as a guine pig for when I start doing my 68 Suburban, and I want everything simple and hidden. If the sub is reasonable performance wise I'll use it later in the Suburban. If it's not? It goes back to the retailer. I'll aleady have everything wired up regardless.

I think 500 bucks is reasonable. I'ma big fan of Infinity reference speakers. Four of those, an inexpensive amp (dont need much)
and a little extra bass from the sub should do me just fine. Not looking to set the world on fire. I'm sure this would be a HUGE improvement over the stock system. Certainly has been my experience in the past. Hell, if I could stuff a pair of infinity 6x9's somewhere I might call it a day, lol.

I am ready for some Infinity bashing. It's been a while, but they at least USED to be good speakers.

 

[anotherWS6]

Does anyone run a capacitor in their system. Lol, I've run 3 JL 12's and a 4 channel speaker amp off of a stock suburu before, no other mods. Now I'm looking at a fraction of the power and asking about a capacitor. But I bought a wiring kit that came with one - obviously super chinese and I couldn't resist to just see the thing in person.

I'm lookig at the capacity and weight of my unit and comparing it to others. The few I've looked at have less capacity and weigh about 50% more. SO I'm obviously skeptical. I can of course return this thing, just wondering if it's worth replacing with a higher quality unit. My thought is that while it might do nothing, it couldn't hurt. I'll probably be running a total of about 300w RMS.

Thoughts?

Edit - I frequently, and with great frustration, watch the in dash/computer voltmeter while driving. It almost NEVER reads 14+ volts, and is usually hanging around 12.5 or so. I understand some of the logic behind this and the (IMHO) stupid variable oil pump as well, but I do not like it. I tried to jump start a friends car a month or so ago and was unable to do so. Nothing I did would get the alternator to put out 14.4 volts and regardless of how long we waited to "charge" the dead battery, I couldnt get the troubled vehicle to get more than a couple of slow cranks before quitting again. Turning all of my lights on, AC on full blast, revving and holding at 3,000rpm all did nothing. I still got 12.5,6 volts. I have a large booster pack and after letting the dead car charge again for awhile I was able to start it by using my jeep and jumpers AND the booster.

Long story for this - if the charging system is almost never generating 14 plus volts, I have to assume that my new "system" amplifiers will almost never be getting the voltage they truly are meant to operate at. Has anyone addressed this? Is it a problem? I;m thinking a capacitor MIGHT help, but only in maintaining my sub par voltage. If I have it cranked to a bass heavy song, what is my system and Jeep going to do? Seems like the equivalent of running a super high power system on a small, stock car/electrical system as I have described initially.

What is up with this variable voltage and is there a work around to get it to just put the alternator in full charging mode either all of the time or on demand?

 

[JLsport2019]

My custom professional audio shop said my 2019 Sport JL 2-door (factory 7" radio) has too much "noise" coming from it causing disturbance on new JL Audio speakers (3.5" dash, 4" knee, and 6.5" sound bar speakers)...

Will a DSP amp (JL Audio amd Alpine makes them) help with this noise issue coming from the factory 7" radio?
Currently I have a simple cheap Alpine Power Pack AMP powering all 6 speakers.

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